-1 vote

Troubling piece on Rand Paul and Israel...

5 years, 5 months and 5 days ago I joined Daily Paul because I had finally found a candidate that reflected my views on foreign policy... Dr. Ron Paul... I haven't posted in a while, but, read DailyPaul daily and I'm constantly looking at the viability of Rand Paul in 2016. I found this article troubling on AntiWar.com by Justin Raimando.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/01/17/is-rand-paul-a...

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Yes, this notion that we just

Yes, this notion that we just need to let Israel do as it pleases, ignores the fact that we would never let other nations do as the please. It also ignores the fact that we have directly subsidized this apartheid state since the early 70s! We provide these Arab haters and Jewish supremacists with diplomatic immunity. And Rand ignores the fact the Israel has a religious (more like ethnic) test for everything! Palestinian refugees can build homes in what is now Israel. Palestinians have lost their land to Jewish settlements, the Wall, and Jewish only roads. If America really knew what Israel has done, and is doing, Israelis would know the jig is up.

The only thing troubling here...

...is the dishonesty of the author. Read the actual quotes from Rand in the article and compare them to Raimondo's characterization of Rand and his position. Raimondo makes Rand sound like John McCain or Lindsey Graham, but if you read what Rand actually said he sounds more like...Ron.

Here are all the quotes from Rand contained in the article, try reading them without Raimondo's commentary and see for yourself:

"’That’s an arrogant and presumptuous point of view and doesn’t further progress on anything,’ the senator said, and he returned to that view throughout the call as he discussed the location of Israel’s capital and Israeli settlements. Paul decried U.S. politicians who display ‘this flippant and arrogant’ attitude about internal Israeli affairs, saying that ‘no one can really know as much as people in the region’ about such matters. ‘It is not up to the U.S. to dictate’ to mayors and West Bank officials where housing goes, Paul added. Paul said he considers himself more pro-Israel than some pro-Israel audiences because ‘I’m for an independent, strong Israel that is not a dependent state, not a client state.’"

"’One question is: If I’m the mayor of Jerusalem, or if I’m looking at places in the West Bank and settlements in the West Bank, obviously there’s either advisability or inadvisability with regard to ultimately finding places to build, whether it’s antagonistic or provacative,’ said Paul. ‘Where I distinguish myself, though, is while there might be right or wrong answers to these questions, it’s not American politicians’ business to be dictating the answers. The answers need to come from the participants who live on the ground in these areas. I think it’s just presumptuous and arrogant of us to think, well, we’re going to go down to a roadmap of Jerusalem and decide where the neighborhoods can be expanded? It did influence me some that I did see the map of the neighborhoods, and I did see that there are neighborhoods being expanded in the Arab areas as well as the Jewish areas of Jerusalem, but the comments I heard from officials were: What does America want? Do they want there to be a religion test on who’s going to buy land? How would we feel in America if land that was designated for development, we said you have to prove what religion you are before you can build on the land? You can see how it’s a funny sort of bias we’re asking for, how we want them to develop the land.’"

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Raimondo...

has the utmost respect for Ron Paul. Why would he turn on Rand without justification?

Rand is going tear the Liberty movement apart and it is already starting. They are not going to tolerate pretending to support the ethnic cleansing and ghettoization of the Palestinians. It is as heinous as anything Nazi Germany did if not more so. Ron Paul said Gaza is a concentration camp and he is right!

The secular neocons want military confrontation with China and Russia in order to bring about regime change and the christian neocons want a global conflagration to hasten the return of Jesus. This is SERIOUS DAMN BUSINESS and Rand is on the verge of making a laughingstock and moral joke out of the opposition...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

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same reason you have.
MASSIVE confusion.

Still chasing rand? all night??
you HATE him dontcha?

GOOD!

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

You Rand lovers

Are exactly like the Gary Johnson trolls that were ravaging this site in 2012 election. Different factions, same smear tactics. You are the Rand version of legalizeliberty. The sooner people understand this, the quicker they will be to dismiss your posts as damage control and denial.

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not really.
when ron paul dropped out he endorsed no one.
when rand paul runs ron will endorse his son.
big diff there fella

If ron paul endorses his son, you will vote for hillary?
Is that what your saying?

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

No.

It sounds like you support Rand simply because he's Ron's son. Of course Ron will endorse his own flesh and blood. I don't care who he endorses; I can make my own decisions. Can you?

If Ron endorsed Gary Johnson, would you have voted for him simply because Ron said so, despite his horrible policies?

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I support Rand because I grew up with him in Ron Pauls district and Rand is JUST LIKE HIM- only BETTER- for tadays market!
Rand is fresh and has a fresh mouth.
I like that.

Ron would have endorsed GJ if he had better policies of HIS OWN, so yes I would have.

"we are in a new era" Ron Paul 2001

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Thank you!

Thank you!

yw!

:D

Speak the truth confidently and loudly! Down with lies and deception to gain some stupid office. There is no power in that office. Ron Paul built an army of liberty lovers that they FEAR and he never had ANY control or affect on any legislation or any lever of power.

Lying and deceiving and pretending to support the ethnic cleansing and ghettoization of the Palestinians to gain the presidency is a fools adventure... or Rand is just another scumbucket. It only steals the moral soul of our movement and destroys our ability to win hearts and minds.

I want to puke now... :\

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

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but the tea parties which both pauls are a part of will be alive and well- and that is whats important.
Funny how the libs now call it a liberty movement and then attach Rons name to it.
Ron and rand are both tea partiers and are not part of what you drivel out.
deal.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Now I am really done with Rand

I had many reservations to begin with - but anyone who associates with the American Family Association is not worthy of not just my vote but the most basic human respect.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

You are right on

I was waiting to see how things would turn out, and it's not looking very good for Rand. He will have NEO-CON support and no base or following.

SteveMT's picture

Some people change. Some people don't.

A selectively applied foreign policy is like straddling a barbed-wire fence, IMO. Consistency is the hallmark of fairness. There are no exceptions with Constitutional consistency.

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

"Borrowing money from China -- or printing it out of thin air -- to hand out overseas in [an] attempt to purchase friends has been a failing foreign policy, as we see most recently in Egypt where there is not even a government in place!" - Ron Paul
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/16/ron_paul_...

A Biblical Case for Ron Paul on Four Issues of Importance to Christians
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"Actually, Ron Paul’s foreign policy would benefit Israel. First, he wants to end all foreign aid (because it is not authorized in the Constitution and is therefore illegal). Given that Israel’s enemies receive seven times more foreign aid from the US than Israel, this would be a net benefit to Israel. Moreover, Ron Paul advocates allowing Israel greater sovereignty. Currently, Israel must obtain the permission of the United States government before implementing any plans to deal with the Palestinians internally or Israel’s enemies externally. That is not sovereignty. Ron Paul would allow Israel to deal with internal and external matters without obtaining permission from the United States, and far from opposing Israel, he would advocate friendship and peaceful trade with it, as he would with any other country."
http://lewrockwell.com/orig13/eversden1.1.1.html

Ron Paul seeks vote to end foreign aid to Egypt, Israel, Jordan, and Pakistan
Posted By Josh Rogin Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 4:23 PM Share

Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) and his son, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), have not been shy about their desire to end all U.S. foreign aid. This week, the elder member of the Paul family is seeking a full House vote on an amendment that would cut $6 billion of U.S. aid to a host of Middle East countries.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/16/ron_paul_...

Most of these so called

Most of these so called enemies are controlled by Western interests. Israel is not truly in danger like you and others imply. Jordan=enemy of Israel? Oh please!

Non-interventionism means no

Non-interventionism means no foreign aid, to every nation, and letting nations face the consequences for their unjust policies. That means ending automatic support for the apartheid state of Israel in the UN. Yes, it seems Rand is a Christian Zionist or a scaredy cat.

"it seems Rand is a Christian Zionist or a scaredy cat."

Or a libertarian who is also politically competent and knows what it takes to win.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

To win what!?!?

An office that has no real power and that the zionists will have him killed if he doesn't do as they wish?

Ron Paul never had any real effect on any legislation or any of the cogs of government! Yet through being a STATESMAN who voiced a MESSAGE and displayed integrity and honesty he has awoken and built a millions strong coalition of citizens with the goal of liberty and freedom from tyranny in their hearts. And Ron did this without as much as a hand touching any wheel or lever of power!

And they FEAR us and what we may be on the verge of achieving. Rand's dance of deception in his quest for an office may very well tear it all down. Rand wants control of what his dad wants to destroy!

Keep your bullshit lies and deception and pretending that heinous immoral things are just fine. This is disgusting. Speak only the truth and speak it loudly and with confidence. Only from that will true change be possible. Changes in hearts.

Either Rand is stupid or he is evil...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I didn't see Ron Paul selling

I didn't see Ron Paul selling out his principles. But then again, I doubt Rand has those same principles. If Rand can support sanctions on Iran, he can support full cessation of aid to Israel.

One thing...

One thing it will take is for him to hire competent image consultant. It looks like he combs his hair with an egg beater. That's not going to cut it with a populace who worship superficiality, you know folks who get all enamored with crap like; Academy Awards, hero worship, American Idol etc.

Mark

he's in the game.

let's get over it that he has to impress lobbies to make decisions in this country; let him go... hes off his training wheels.

lets focus on what we can do to counter the keynesians ourselves.

Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right. -Henry Ford

You guys make me laugh

Rand proposes cutting Israeli aid, but you conclude he's an Israel-firster because he doesn't cut it enough. You want to lay blame for Israel's action on the guy who wants to cut their aid. Do we see the absurdity of this position? ...guess not. Troll on.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

It's apparent...

you didn't even read the article... :\

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

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"this is the only rand thread Im aware of".
lol
Do you chase rand paul threads all over the net?

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

Umm..

check the date and time this forum topic was created and compare it to date/time of the comment you are referencing. ;)

Perhaps you should consider firing your lawyer...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

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ummm. maybe not.

You ignore the fact youre CHASING RAND THREADS!!!lol
Nice try though.
as of now, you hold 35% of all comments on this thread and 50% on the other one!lol
Are you a rand chaser?
well of course you are.
hate him dontcha?
good.
if you didnt i would be questioning him, but no- hes right on target.

"OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

Rand Paul 2016

I am "chasing"...

a number of threads. Most of them unrelated to Rand. :)

So, you are a zionist, eh? You have the personality of a scientologist...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

What's apparent to you exactly?

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"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

More than aid...

see my comments below.

Ron called Gaza a "concentration camp". Rand says "let the bombing of Gaza begin! It's not my business..."

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Nowhere in that article did Rand say...

"let the bombing of Gaza begin! It's not my business..."

So where did Rand say this, or are you a liar?

Anyway, Rand did have this to say:

"’One question is: If I’m the mayor of Jerusalem, or if I’m looking at places in the West Bank and settlements in the West Bank, obviously there’s either advisability or inadvisability with regard to ultimately finding places to build, whether it’s antagonistic or provacative,’ said Paul. ‘Where I distinguish myself, though, is while there might be right or wrong answers to these questions, it’s not American politicians’ business to be dictating the answers.

And that's exactly right, exactly what Ron always said: it's not our business.

He also said this:

Paul said he considers himself more pro-Israel than some pro-Israel audiences because ‘I’m for an independent, strong Israel that is not a dependent state, not a client state.’"

Sound familiar? Sound like something a certain country doctor from Texas has been saying for years?

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."