-91 votes

What's wrong with a little gun control?

I don't believe anyone is coming for your guns. I understand that there are people that might want that, but it's just not going to happen. I have no problem with stricter laws. Sorry, but we don't need AK 47's. And guess what, nothing suggested in any of the current proposals would even mean that you'd have to give up yours if you had one. These were the same views Reagan had:

In 1986 he signed the Firearm Owners Protection Act. It banned ownership of any fully automatic rifles that were not already registered on the day the law was signed.

As governor of California, Reagan signed the Mulford Act, which prohibited carrying loaded firearms in public.

He also supported a 15-day waiting period.

And are background checks really a bad thing for someone to own a gun. I mean to drive a car you need to take a test and get a license. You need to be 16, sometimes 17 before you get behind the wheel. You have to have car insurance. You have to obey posted speed limits. You're not allowed to drink and drive. You can even have your license suspended or revoked...not because you are a felon, but because of non related driving offenses like underage drinking.

And the doubters will always bring up the 2nd Amendment, but never mention it begins with "well regulated". Not to mention the arms that the founders bared were muskets that took up to a minute to reload between shots.

Some of the others will say we need to protect ourselves from a Tyrannical government. I hate to be the barer of bad news, but our government has drones. If they want you dead, you're high powered assault rifle isn't going to save you.

And you can say what you want about me without really knowing who I am, but I believe in the 2nd Amendment. Before you bash me and vote me down, I ask only that you tell me what you feel the 2nd Amendment protects. Do we have the right to own a Nuclear Bomb? To extreme? Can I fly around in a fully loaded F-16? No, how about drive around in a tank? Can we own anything the begins with the words "Surface to Air"? A rocket launcher, a grenade thrower? Please tell me where your "line" is. Am I really that extreme because I believe the line is right before an automatic rifle which holds a clip with more than 10 rounds and your's is right after it?

And I know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. And I know that stricter gun laws won't end gun violence, the same way I know that laws against murder, didn't end murder. Laws against rape, didn't end rape...but does that mean we shouldn't have those laws?



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You are forgetting about the commas

A well regulated milita, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. It doesn't say the right of a militia or the right of the states it says the right of people to keep and bear arms. Meaning that the people will make sure that Militia is well regulated and not running around raping and pillaging.

Try taking aways an Afhagans rocket launcher when there is black hawks and drones flying over his house. I guarantee you he's not turning it in. Why because there is a militia in his neighborhood killing people. Until that starts happening here in the United States I don't think the we the people will recognize just how far the second amendment was meant to go.

In other words yes I would like a fully loaded f-16 please.

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    You are mistaken when you write..

    "Meaning that the people will make sure that Militia is well regulated and not running around raping and pillaging."

    When the Constitution was written, the militia was the main military force of the United States. That militia was composed of all able-bodied males within a certain age range. In the context of the second amendment, a "well regulated" militia was one that was well equipped and trained. Members of the militia - meaning you and your neighbors - were expected to own a weapon to take with you when were called up by the governor or president in times of crises. You were also expected to know how to use it. Keeping the weapon gave the militia member an opportunity to train with it.

    There was a fear of having a professional standing army at that time because it could be used by the government to oppress the people.

    The people as the military force supporting the government kept the power in the hands of people - all military age males, locally organized. That is what made the militia "necessary to the security of a free state." The people remained free because they were the military.

    Read up on Shays' Rebellion in MA. The governor wanted to tax Rev War vets to pay speculators who held state issued IOUs. Those same vets sold those pay-promises to the speculators at pennies on the dollar. Now the speculators got the state to declare the IOUs would be paid at face value plus interest and in silver. The veterans started shutting down the local courts to prevent the tax being collected. The MA governor called out the militia to stop Shays. The militia knew what was going on and refused. The speculators were forced to hire mercenaries to scatter Shays' army.

    That is how it is supposed to work. If the government wants to enforce its corrupt authority, the militia - which is the people - says "No." That is why the militia is necessary for the security of a free state. Not only from threats to its freedom from foreign powers, but also from internal corruption. The government has no formal political police force loyal to it to oppress the people. The people have the power to exercise consent to being governed.

    [F]orce can only settle questions of power, not of right. - Clyde N. Wilson

    Second Amendment

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Free includes debt-free!

    It's not the bill of NEEDS

    Nobody needs anything besides water, gruel, and shelter.

    But a free society protects life. Sometimes mechanical tools like guns are required to protect life. Not often, and hopefully not in our lifetime, but its a cold war. Equal arms, equal respect. Someday you might need to fight off many people. If so, you should be prepared for such an event if you so choose.

    No one NEEDS freedom of speech, or jury trials. No one NEEDS search warrants. But they are essential to free society.

    Also, there is no such thing as just a little compromise. If we all vote to cut off your arm, should you compromise and cut off your hand? If everyone else cheated, is Lance Armstrong less of a cheater? No. You either believe in something or you do not. Don't let people like Bill O'Reilly talk you into just a little bit of fascism. No one ever got their wife just a little pregnant. Some things are absolute.

    .

    That is a great comment.

    "OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

    Rand Paul 2016

    Can I post this on my facebook?

    You said everything I want to say in very concise and eloquent way.

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    absolutely!

    absolutely!

    I dont believe in the conspiracy of coming for our guns either

    but does that mean we shouldn't have those laws?

    And I know that stricter gun laws won't end gun violence

    You've just answered my question.

    If stricter gun laws do not work then why establish them in the first place if its not a productive solution to end gun violence?

    what stricter gun laws means is for those who DO want to hurt people such as MS13, Bloods, Crips, etc. will have higher access to these guns while the public is disarmed. Now that is a dangerous outcome with these stricter laws.

    A little gun control has a lot of unintended consequences.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XrNzE39J8E

    His name is Edward Snowden

    What is Capitalism?
    http://youtu.be/yNF09pUPypw

    "Well Regulated" means "prepared" in 1789

    They didn't mean controlled by anyone, they meant PREPARED! You might also enjoy the definition of "infringed". There is NO LINE! And you people who bring up nukes are retards. What normal person could afford a nuclear weapon anyway? You watch too much tv.

    My try

    People seem to have a hard time with this one, so I'll add to what you said:

    "Regulated" meant to "make regular." The only similar use I know of today is "regular bowel movements." This means that you want the bowels to be functioning normally.

    A well functioning militia, being necessary...

    This is a big part of why we have not maintained a free state. We *need* well functioning (regulated) militias, and we don't have them, becuase we've been too lazy to maintain them.

    Washington (George) was right on this one. It's time to get up off the couch and become responsible. Let's get those militias going folks.

    .

    It is ok to make a thread like this. Im sorry for your down votes. It raises a very important question and reminds me of one of RP's most famous and most often said lines.
    This quote goes for anything that divides us as a country.
    Abortion, Drugs, Guns, Gays etc etc..

    We have 3 systems of gvt.
    local, state and fed.

    "The bigger the issue, the more local the solution should be" Ron Paul

    The problem with any "gun control" is because it is being done at the federal level and will include all 50 states and 4 territories.
    Wouldnt someone in American Samoa need an AK 47 to shoot a herd of wild boar charging them?
    anyway
    One big monolithic answer for everyone- is not what the founders had in mind. They put the power in the local Sheriff to arrest a sitting President. That is proof. No one else can arrest a president except a sheriff, and only if the president goes into that sheriffs district.
    Who can arrest the sheriff? The local commissioner or constable in his district, that has the sheriffs home inside of it. We have 4 commissioners here. Only one of them can arrest the sherriff. The one who has the sherriff living inside his lines.
    No one else can arrest the sheriff.
    Not the FBI or CIA or Military. No one else.
    That is why Joe A hasnt been hauled off and stands up to Obama.
    He has no fear because the Constitution will not permit his arrest by the feds.

    The issues we discuss here- issues everyone knows divides, are not supposed to be on the federal stage. Even Pauls own supporters look to the fed for answers and discuss the fed everyday!

    Our mayoral elections are supposed to be the biggest and most important election, not a president or even a governor.
    Keep that in mind when you speak of control and who should hold the power over us.

    "The bigger the problem, the more local the solution should be" Ron Paul

    "OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

    Rand Paul 2016

    If you polish a turd...

    It's still a turd...

    When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

    .

    why do you polish turds then?

    I am for no gun control, but if people want gun control, which is their right- it should be done at the local level and no where else affecting no one else in other parts of that state.
    If any legislation is good legislation it will be picked up by surrounding districts and made into law. If not- it wont.

    "OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

    Rand Paul 2016

    -

    It's you that wants to polish this turd!

    "It is ok to make a thread like this. Im sorry for your down votes."

    Take a hint... -57 down votes!

    When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

    This should cover my response

    http://youtu.be/hkodTydUR0E

    "Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

    You post needs some polish!

    Here ya go...

    When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

    .

    So how many turds have you polished?
    Do you buy your "turd polish" in bulk at sams?
    How much is it?
    Did you learn how to polish turds from your granpappy?
    Are you good at it?
    Do you take orders?
    Can we send them through USPS and receive them back in a timely manner?
    Will they shine and is your polishing technique guaranteed?

    Will you polish something else?

    "OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

    Rand Paul 2016

    Never have...

    never will!
    But I do know a turd when I see one!
    Will I polish something else? Sure! I'll polish my boots with the seat of your pants! Or it would seem you wear panties... Sensitive little bitch!

    When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

    .

    my sensative lil B is hanging for you!
    lol
    come shine and polish it, cinderella.

    ;)

    "OH NO! He has a SON?" Neoconservatives and Liberals EVERYWHERE!

    Rand Paul 2016

    I don't want this to be too long..but

    "I don't believe anyone is coming for your guns." You're not paying attention.

    Sorry, but we don't need AK 47's And just who are you to say what is and is not okay to own? Do you see the hubris in this statement? Why do you get to decide what ANYONE does with their money? Why do you get to decide what is appropriate firepower in defense of liberty or property? And what governs your hubris? If you feel tomorrow a .45 semi-auto 1911 is overkill, will it be so? Perhaps only .22's the next day. and none the day after that. Do you see the danger in your thinking?

    Republicans are no friends to gun owners. I know that and agree. Reagan was no conservative, either. Means nothing to me.

    And are background checks really a bad thing for someone to own a gun. Yes. It is a necessary prerequisite to confiscation. Otherwise the manpower and resources needed would be too great. This means felons as well. The right of self-defense and protection of ones property is a natural right. NOT a gift of government.

    "others will say we need to protect ourselves from a Tyrannical government." 'others' being both the federalist and the anti-federalists that framed the constitution. anyone saying otherwise is either ignorant or disingenuous. And to say "well you're already outgunned, might as well do whatever they want now" is a nonsensical argument.

    "And you can say what you want about me without really knowing who I am, but I believe in the 2nd Amendment." It is clear that you do not. At least be up front about it.

    "tell me what you feel the 2nd Amendment protects. Do we have the right to own a Nuclear Bomb? To extreme? Can I fly around in a fully loaded F-16? No, how about drive around in a tank? Can we own anything the begins with the words "Surface to Air"? A rocket launcher, a grenade thrower? Please tell me where your "line" is. "Shall Not Be Infringed." I read those words and believe they mean exactly what they say. I support no law with the word 'gun' in it, ever. Period. Do you have any idea how much a tank, SAM, or fully loaded f-16 costs? If you've made money honestly by providing products or services and decide you want to waste money on something like that, absolutely. Go for it. I'd rather them be available to everyone (with bottomless pockets, mind you) rather than just have a military armed to the teeth waiting to have their guns and tanks turned against civilians. As for a nuclear bomb, consider what you're proposing. I shouldn't need to waste any more time addressing this.

    “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” Thomas Jefferson

    "Am I really that extreme because I believe the line is right before an automatic rifle which holds a clip with more than 10 rounds and your's is right after it?" Extreme? No. You fall in line with most of America, I imagine. Dangerous? Infinitely.

    I'm afraid you place too much confidence and trust in an institution that deserves neither.

    sorry

    I couldn't read your post past the opening paragraph where you tell me what I "don't need." How would you know what I need?

    I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
    www.tattoosbypaul.com
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    What's wrong with a little gun control?

    Severing
    Enumerated
    Rights
    Forebodes
    Destruction
    Of
    Mankind

    The fact that you identified

    The fact that you identified this post with Pennsylvania sickens me to no end. If you are from Pennsylvania, I certainly hope you consider moving out of the State; Communist NY, NJ, Il, or CA might be the place for you. Hell, I would consider helping you pack.

    You're complaining that people wont accept gun control, while I'm complaining that I cannot buy a Howitzer. I don't think this state is big enough for the two of us; and my family has been here since before Penn himself; so it certainly isn't me who is going. GTFO of PA with your silly notions of gun control; I'm sick of it and you people.

    Oh, and if you knew anything about the PA constitution then you would know that it is even stricter than the 2nd amendment of the federal Constitution, by stating, "the right to bear arms shall not be questioned." Which means that you don't even have authority to question my right to bear arms; as far as the PA Constitution is concerned.

    Whats wrong with being a

    Whats wrong with being a little stupid?

    You obviously dont belong here.

    jrd3820's picture

    OP doesn't belong where?

    On the internet?
    I'm pretty sure when they made the rules of the internet it was a come one come all type thing.

    Doesn't belong on the DP? Not for you to decide.

    He/She obviously has been mislead. Help him/her out.

    +1

    I like how dissenting opinions here are often ridiculed. Because, y'know, that's totally what Dr. Paul would do. Not like he'd try to educate or anything...

    It's funny how often the 'fringe' acts like the 'establishment' it so despises.

    A signature used to be here!

    jrd3820's picture

    Respect.

    Some people just need some information. I grew up in a world without guns and I was in middle school when Columbine happened (while my cousin was at Columbine that day). I grew up completely brainwashed about guns. I just needed some information and help finding the right way.

    I asked a few questions about guns a few weeks ago (and not even proposing BANS, like OP did, just asking what some of the lingo was), and.... you would have thought I was President Obama himself and I had marched in here and demanded everyone turn over their guns.

    Some people were more than helpful and informative though and it has helped me work on a project on campus to add gun training into the females self defense seminars. It is a project in the works and I do not know where it will go, but I am working on it because some (few) people here were helpful.

    reply

    Yeah, I recall your question about guns and how you were responded to...it's pretty common, heh. Maybe it's some sort of initiation ritual? /shrug

    I can get rude/nasty at times, and have "blown up" on a few people who probably didn't deserve it, but I try to at least start off by being civil. No reason to be hostile right from the get-go.

    Not saying that people shouldn't say what they think, just to do it with a bit of perspective and class.

    There really are lots of very helpful and consistent people here though, despite my gripe.

    A signature used to be here!

    Simple

    Trickle-down system, period.

    First they ban autos, then semi-autos, then shotguns, then pistols, then bows, then knives, then shovels, then rocks, then yourself.

    Before you know it, everyone is locked up in individual holding cells because we can't be trusted.

    Pretty much anything irrational you can think of they will ban, but they will start with what most consider "rational."

    It's a dangerous slide.

    "Before you know it, everyone

    "Before you know it, everyone is locked up in individual holding cells". Well just think how safe they all would be in their own little cell.....