43 votes

Well, was 911 an inside job?

Hello liberty bretheren.......

As you all know and if you research all my threads, I have been one of the harsher critics of 911 truth topics. However, after watching these more two recent documentaries on 911 (one called something like "finally PROOF" and another about Israeli connections) I swear to God, that I am finally speechless. I was honestly convinced that Alex Jones films on 911 and Loose Change and all the mainstream documentaries on 911 truth were completely debunked and then these two came out and Im thinking "wow, how could you debunk these?"... In fairness, because I try to be a critical thinker in every thing I do, I cannot prove most of the claims made, but they just dont seem like stuff you can make up. But if even half of the claims made on these most recent docs on 911 truth, then it looks pretty bad that 911 was an inside job... Wow.... However, I will still say that some truthers Ive debated on this forum are some of the most over zealous closed minded people Ive debated since debating mainstream neocons and liberals. I still am divided on how to perform action moveing forward? I will NEVER dislike Jack Hunter no matter what he says. I actually think he has a good point in that whether conspiracies are true or not, that if it hurts our cause, then perhaps we should only focus on the corruption that is out in the open. I dont know, but I will tell you this that for the first time in my life, I am starting to believe 911 was an inside job or at least, the very very least, been allowed to happen. Hmmm... Its making my head spin....




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I recommend not saying never...

When Fascism goes to sleep, it checks under the bed for Ron Paul!

Along with the video evidence, read...

graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...WTC.../9110161.PDF

Capt. Karin DeShore
Firefighter Craig Carlsen
Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephan Gregory
Firefighter William Reynolds
Chronological Report of the WTC Radio Transmissions on 9/11/01

These are but a few of the memorandum taken by the World Trade Center Task Force shortly after 9/11. The above are just a small number of first responders who reported bombs, flashes and belts of explosions, etc. going off in the buildings.

http://www.flcv.com/nypolice.html

The City of New York did not want to make this material available to the public, the City of New York was sued (the suit involved family members of 9/11 victims and others). An appeals court ordered the above released, and in 2005 this material became available to the public.

National Security Archive, an excellent source for material:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/index.htm

Explosions before planes hit

Explosions before planes hit WTC 911 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3uFvOiTNz4

To answer some of questions....

Hello Brethren,

Im sorry, I am computer retarded sometimes, but the video I was referring to is called "War By Deception 2013" and other one I cant find, but i found it here on the DP and it under a label called "FINALLY proof 911" or something close. The last one being the craziest, because it didnt go into little facts or physics that honestly can be debunked to some degree, but went into WAAAAAAY too mnany coincidences and went further into the dancing Israelis and all the coincidences about important fraud meetings that key players called in sick when investigators died and how they are all tied to G Bush Sr... Man, im telling you that I tried to put on my natural debunker hat and couldnt find anything...

Look, I still believe that thermite, a missile or plane into pentagon, Bin laden confessions, etc etc can all be debunked or close to debunked. I take NOTHING in faith, but try my best as a human to be as a fair thinker as possible. I am a skeptic by nature, but just understanding how greedy and evil our politicians and CIA are, are enough for me to believe that they are capable of such horrible acts. However, I just didnt see enough that could not be debunked to convince me, but the last video I mentioned (its here on the DP history) went into real solid evidence that any court would find suspicious and it had to do with real money and all this other crazy stuff and it made my head spin. I just could not debunk any of it (again, I can debunk most of loose change and ive tried in debates in the past) and again, if only half were true, thats pretty damning. And how could the creator of that documentary make such details up?! Its madness...

Someone below criticized me for saying that some conspiracy theorists were over zealous and closed minded. He said that they were simply right and I was simply wrong and therefore critiqued my use of the word "closed minded" and I find his logic nonsensical. You saying you are right and I am wrong is like say a pastor calling scientist wrong "just because". Just because some thing seems logical "like a conspiracy" doesnt mean that it is. I NEVER believed the full official story, but I just didnt see enough evidence (until now) to make me believe it was done purposefully by government and my mind is still open at the very least to think it was ALLOWED to be done. Thermite, exploasions, etc can still be possibly debunked (not saying it is, just saying its not proof). This is very closed minded thread. What I meant by over zealous closeminded, was because during debates, I would infact debate with some intelligent debators (such as Jiminy Cricket), but at other times I would just simply be told I was an idiot, a dumbass, Im wrong (without saying why) that I was brainwashed and one person even said I was a mossad agent and I am no friend of the zionist government (although I try my best to stay away from that topic because of its taboos and sensitivity.. Its sad that Zionism is a touchy subject but it is and its complicated. I dont however endorse the Israel gov's actions towards palestinians and I cannot stand the Israel lobby. Its disgusting). Anyway, Im sorry I didnt have some of the direct links, but I really appreciate everybody's warm welcome "home" sotospeak and I appreciate those who are willing to be open minded and skeptical about ALL things, as I try my best to be. God bless the patriots of this country!

Ron Paul 2012

Please edit your original post

To contain "War by Deception" and the link to the video, so other people can easily watch without scrolling through the thread.

Ah, you found Ryan Dawson's

Ah, you found Ryan Dawson's video - War By Deception.

That's the thing about Ryan's work, how you going to disprove that? He does a darn good job.


http://youtu.be/QIqlZXdJONw

Check out his actual website -

http://www.rys2sense.com/

Nice to see you have become more open

Have you seen the AE911 Truth videos? This is what convinced me.
Try and step away from the massive scale of the building. It was 110 stories tall and the first plane hit between the 93rd and 99th floors. So proportionally it hit the top 15% of the building, that is to say that the top 15% of the building crushed the bottom 85%.
I challenge you to try and replicate this phenomenon by constructing two boxes from card board, or folded paper, or matchsticks, or anything you can think of, where the width and length are the same, but the top box is 15% of the total height and weight and the bottom box is 85% of the height and weight. Drop the shorter top box onto the lower one, and you can even drop it from several times the total height, and see if you can recreate this on a small scale level. The upper floors would have been lighter structurally than the lower floors, so the floors above the impact would have actually been even less than the 15% height ratio. Ask yourself, who has more credibility, your government which didn't even test for explosives if only to rule it out, or licensed, practicing engineers, architects, scientists,and metallurgists?

The fact that free fall can only occur with ZERO structural resistance cannot be debunked. The fact that NIST admits that Building 7 was in free fall at some point, cannot be debunked. Therefore the fact that Building 7 at some point, provided zero structural resistance during the collapse cannot be debunked. So it can only be that the entire structural system on the floor that failed was entirely absent. Do you think that an office fire that normally reaches only 500 degrees could cause an entire floors' columns to fail simultaneously when the melting point of steel is 2700 degrees? And fires spread. All of the logs in your fireplace don't burn through at the same moment do they, so how in the world would this happen to columns spread throughout a large building?

I know you said you can't

I know you said you can't find the "FINALLY proof 911" video you watched, but if you're eventually able to locate it please post it as a reply to this message. I'm really interested in seeing which video you are referring to. I tried finding the DP link you found it on, but I have no clue which one it could be.

“How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!” – Samuel Adams

I think

the Truther movement was the end of truth in this movement.

well said!

I couldn't agree more. And it's very sad that some people who supported Ron Paul also bought into this sensationalism that helped his detractors slander him in his campaign for President.

Could you clarify?

??

Mikoni

Hey spinny head,

always follow the money, and who benefits from tragedies like Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
I have been following "conspiracies" about 9/11 since 11/11, and still cannot get my head around all of the information.
The only thing I know for sure, is that it categorically was not Osama and 19 hi-jackers.

It certainly was allowed to happen

ex FBI whistle blower (Collen Rowley) told me this in person. keep in mind she worked inside the MN FBI branch that was DENIED access to the 20th hijackers laptop weeks before 911. (Moussaii) FBI HQ denied their standard operating request

Other FBI agents like translator Sibel Edmonds got fired & harrased for telling her stories of obstruction

& FBI Finance terroism agent Robert Wright also blew the whistle

These are real people & there are so many more. Problem is the obstruction case has to go to Federal Courts which are controlled

SteveMT's picture

When compared to 9/11, Sandy Hook was a piece of cake.

No doubt that 9/11 took some planning on multiple levels to accomplish. On the other hand, Sandy Hook must have been a walk in the park. Just hire some actors and mercenaries then co-opt local agencies while again running practice drills that same day. Works like a charm every time.

I think alex jones is right on sandy hook

The fact they keep doing these drills in the schools right before the shooting.
Alex and other seem to think that if you have 100 drills going off every few months all over the country somehow everywhere so often one of the drills goes live with live ammo and all.
It is very easy to just grab a guy off the street and shoot him in the head and leave him when the cops arrive the guys dead cops say it was a suicide story over.
Let's say there is 3 people in a drill 2 of them are bad people 1 the good guy.
Well they would set of the good guy.
Small drills no idea if its real or not.
Like with movies put a real bullet in the gun instead of blanks.
or just tell the solders that its a live drill.
It all happens so fast nobody knows what the heck.
I had dreams when I was a kid about intrusive areal crafts like drones and un solders going door to door doing gun confiscation when I was around 11.

I'd be willing to accept that someone at some level knew

about some potential impending attacks and did nothing to stop them. Actually, with some of the stories about Mossad agents and their actions it seems pretty clear that they had some foreknowledge. I do not, however, buy that either the US government or the Mossad had any active involvement in the attacks. The reason for this is that the risk simply does not outweigh the gain. If the American people were to ever figure out that Mossad was behind the attacks it would spell the end for the state of Israel. Also, if there was any Government action it would spell the end of the government, and the resultant upheaval would likely reverse 100 years of progressive political gains. The risk simply isn't worth the potential gains.....BUT if you knew about it ahead of time and were able to make propoganda and legigislative hay out of the attacks occuring without getting your hands dirty....WELL that is another animal indeed. I expect such a scenario would be very tempting to a power hungry government indeed. What it all comes down to is the risk simply isn't worth the reward when considering something just this large.

Josh Brueggen
Engineer
Entrepreneur
Gardener
Jack of all Trades
Precinct Commiteeman Precinct 5 Rock Island Co Illinois

We know from the stock trades, some had fore knowledge

Follow the money, this had advantages for some. Urban renewal for NY, the building was a standing total with a history of a demolition application, the insurance claim advantage and control of oil in the middle east.

You must have missed the post

You must have missed the post I made two days ago. Here is the link in it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blSifMddGf8 War by Deception 2013, by Ryan Dawson. If you think there is no way Israel could have been involved, then please watch this and prepare to be shocked. I challenge anyone to find one thing wrong in this documentary. Israel's Mossad was involved, cause it knew the media would be on its side! Any criticism of Israel is already seen as "anti Semitic." This, and continuing sympathy over the Holocaust, allows Israel to "get away with it." This is not to imply that Israel was the only guilty party. Just watch and learn.

Mossad 9/11 Fingerprints

I urge you to research Israel-Mossad’s history. Israel-Mossad’s attack on the USS Liberty is well documented along with testimonies that it was deliberate. Mossad has a long history of false flags. Zionists held key positions in the Bush administration and had enormous influence surrounding 9/11 events.

www.globalvision2000.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=848
www.secretsofthefed.com/history-of-mossad-black-ops-and

video 1 38 minutes discussing PNAC and report headed by Philip Zelikow
http://ppjg.me/2012/10/06/the-toronto-hearings-on-911-uncove...

Zionists laid a blueprint via PNAC
Michael Chertoff:, (who let the 5 dancing Israel agents go free as head of the Justice Dept),
www.theuglytruth.wordpress.com/.../lest-we-forget-israeli-art

Philip Zelikow exec director of the 9/11 Commission
Paul Wolfowitz deputy to Rumsfeld
Dov S. Zakheim. Defense Department: Comptroller Center for Security Policy: Former adviser Project for the New American Century
www.911research.wtc7.net/cache/sept11/rightweb_zakheim.html
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlNQTG8B6hw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvDHaJiDUek&
Philip Zelikow and Paul Wolfowitz mentioned in Dr. Wasfi’s interview 6:38 min and 8:00 min

"It is one hundred percent certain that 9-11 was a Mossad operation -- period." - Dr. Alan Sabrosky, US Army War College

explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGEpRivGeX4

"Our purpose was to document the event."
How did they know there was an event to document?

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

I'll no longer even argue

I'll no longer even argue with people who believe the government story. It's like trying to explain to adults that Santa Clause isn't real.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

WHAT???!!!

I'm going to cry... Who ate the milk and cookies, then?

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

9-12 is easier to get your brain around.

It is a crime to tamper with a crime scene before the investigation is done. On 9-12, the crime scene was utterly destroyed, live on national TV. It went on for weeks. And the type of investigation that was supposed to happen NEVER did. The 9-11 Commission was NOT a group of arson experts, and even if they were, the clues that arson investigators would look for were over a year old and GONE by the time they "investigated." Please note they call it a "Commission Report" not an investigation.
So, along with "too big to fail" banks we have "too big to investigate" crimes. And one last note.... They are considering demolishing Sandy Hook Elementary, even as people like me scream out to see photos of the bullet riddled front door...
Thanks for not digging in on your opinion and staying open until you finally saw. It is not that "truthers" have the answers, it is that we have very reasonable questions.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Since you're open minded...

...take a look at this regarding the explosions witnesses heard:

http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm

I believe you'll find it informative and will rechange your mind again.

And For Debunking 9/11 Debunking Sites....

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/

or just read David Ray Griffin's Debunking 9/11 Debunking. Most so called debunkers focus on straw man arguments. And they also rely on ridicule and guilt by association.

A posted youtube...

...film on Daily Paul within the last couple of days showed only portions of the quotes by firemen and other eyewitnesses at the scene. I, among many thousands of people, I'm sure, heard several of the full quotes while watching 9/11 documentaries. Eg., Some of the quotes about "bombs going off" were actually descriptions of the sound made by bodies hitting the ground, but you wouldn't know that if you hadn't heard the full quotes.

But there's no ridicule on my part. I just think 9/11 truthers give the Federal Government way too much credit to pull off such a grand conspiracy.

that is just lame

There are videos of the charges going off in sequence, you can watch the flash then the windows pop out. Barry Jennings testified that he saw someone BLOWN out of the building by the explosion, and there is a horrific video of someone getting blown out of a window of one of the towers.
Take a lesson from the OP and have a look at the facts instead of trying to prop up your opinion. You can start here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cvjBViV7g

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

I did review facts...

...and heard for myself a few of the quotes that had been edited out by the conspiracy theorists, which is why I came to the conclusion that explosive devices set by government geniuses (an oxymoron, btw) is not credible.

Again, as Ron Paul said so many times, BLOWBACK was the motive for 9/11. I agree with him.

Why do you think blowback

Why do you think blowback requires a 9/11 level of event? Aren't avg. terrorist attacks enough?

motive is only half the story

The building came down. How? Explosives were used. Video evidence and eyewitness testimony. Not just of hearing explosions, but of seeing them, being hurled around by them.
Don't "review" facts - go dig for them. ALL of them, not just the ones that make you feel good.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...