20 votes

When the Asst. Atty Gen of NC and an OAH Law Judge says your Taxing Agency is not an Agency under the State, you have a problem!

Edit: I fubared the initial post on this, and am making the necessary corrections. I am working on several different things in this movement right now, and this mess sometimes scrambles the brain; cases get mixed up with others in the mind, and before you know it, you're off in left field using one resource to add confusion to another. So forgive my ignorance on the last heading, and the way I laid this out. It was an honest mistake and I didn't mean to make an intentional misrepresentation of the case or points I was trying to convey.

The point I was trying to make is, that Private Citizens who claim local/state/federal Agencies have no jurisdiction over their lives unless they are employed by that Agency, are correct.

Here we have a case involving Rod Class vs NC Dept. of Revenue, who had claimed he could not sue them because they were public officials who had 11th Amendment sovereignty under the united States Constitution as State Employees/Agencies/Elected-Public Officials.

But the Asst. Atty General of NC said they were not Agencies/Agents under the Administrative control of the State and an OAH Law Judge upheld that opinion.

So if the NC Dept. of Revenue is not an Agency under the state, and it's Agents are not public officials/state employees, then they must be private contractors working for a private agency that is extorting taxes and enforcing internal statutes on non-gov't employees, which would be Private Citizens, or what the media likes to call "Sovereign Citizens".

If so, this is Tax Fraud and Embezzlement of State Funds by non-government officials aka public officials/officers/agents of the state.

How many "Sovereign Citizen" documentaries have we seen over the years, portraying those maniacs as a Danger to Law Enforcement Nationwide?

I mean these people claiming their Sovereignty are Delusional Idiots, right? How dare they claim local/state/federal gov't agencies have no jurisdiction over their lives?

Well, what if they are correct in their assertions?

What if a Dept. of Revenue Taxing Agency were claiming 11th Amendment Sovereignty under the State when faced with a lawsuit, but we came to find out those Agencies and it's Agents were actually private contractors that were in no way under the Administrative Authority of the State their claiming 11th Amendment Immunity under?

From what I can gather, the NC Dept. of Revenue Agents were claiming 11th Amendment Immunity under the State as public officials, but it looks like they are in fact Not an Agency or Agents Under the Administrative Control of the State after all.

They were saying "hey, you can't sue us, we're elected officials", but the Asst. Atty General says they are not, and the Administrative Law Judge upheld that opinion.

Here we have the Asst. Attorney General of North Carolina motioning and Administrative Law Judge to dismiss a case Rod has brought against the NC Dept. of Revenue, because he says that Agency or it's Agents do not fall under the Administrative Authority of the State - they do not work for the state, and are not state employees.

Basically, the State is not claiming them at all.

Rod explains this here:

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-677135.mp3

The Asst. Atty General representing the NC Dept. of Revenue is telling the Administrative Law Judge that he lacks subject matter jurisdiction over Rod's action, and personal jurisdiction over the Dept. of Revenue, because they are not state agencies or agents of the state aka public officials.

http://harveyw26.minus.com/lb1ao7zmQvv9wH

The Administrative Law Judge agreed with the Asst. Atty General and upheld that assertion in his opinion; all docs for this case can be found here http://harveyw26.minus.com/

Now Rod can bring that Agency and it's Agents into court, and use the Asst. Atty General and the Administrative Law Judge as Witnesses against them.

How can they change their mind now? Are they going to perjure themselves? We can only hope so.

But those "Sovereign Citizens" who claim these agencies and their agents have no lawful authority to tax them, or enforce internal statutes on them, are delusional, and we must hunt them down like dogs and kill them all; arrest them; frame them; send them to prison, because they are a Threat to Law Enforcement Officers Nationwide.

When Private Citizens want to claim their Sovereignty, they are Bat-Sh*t Crazy Conspiracy Theorists; Delusional and Insane for believing so called gov't agencies have no authority over their lives, unless said gov't agency has employed them, which would contractually obligate them to abide by those internal statutes that ONLY apply to gov't employees/elected officials/resident/officers, etc. who are getting a paycheck and full benefits for abiding by those internal statutory codes-rules-regulations.

Are we officiating on a sliding scale Gentlemen? The State wants to exercise it's 11th Amendment Sovereignty when being sued by it's Citizens, but when that Citizen tries to use that same 11th Amendment which removed all “judicial power” in law, equity, treaties, contract law, and the right of the State to bring suit against the People, you don't recognize that Amendment, and don't want to allow it as defense in YOUR courtrooms.

Am I missing something here?

There is no government oversight of those agencies, because those agencies are private; hiring private contractors to enforce statutory codes on non-government employees. We basically have private agencies and their agents impersonating public officials.

When is an Agency not an Agency under the STATE?

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-670814.mp3

Rod Class explains how using the Administrative process removes Immunity from so called Gov't Officials:

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-677047.mp3

Another episode where Rod explains this:

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-677135.mp3

Rod's talkshoe radio AIB show where you can listen to all the archives:

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=4...

As for you Law Enforcement Agencies who insist Sovereign Citizens are a Clear and Present Danger to Law Enforcement Nationwide, you might want to double check this case and take a second look at what you've been led to believe about people claiming the state has no authority over their lives.

NOTE: All “judicial power” of the “inferior courts” comes from the Judiciary Act of 1789, as did the Attorney General position. “Judicial power” comes from Article III, Section 2 of the Constitution. The Eleventh Amendment removed all “judicial power” in law, equity, treaties, contract law, and the right of the State to bring suit against the People.

“There are no Judicial courts in America and there has not been since 1789. Judges do not enforce Statutes and Codes. Executive Administrators enforce Statutes and Codes. There have not been any Judges in America since 1789. There have just been Administrators.” (FRC v. GE 281 US 464, Keller v. PE 261 US 428 1Stat. 138-178)

Those BAR Attorney's sitting behind the bench, are not Judges; they are Administrators of the 1933 Bankruptcy.

As for the so called Gov't Agencies:

Private contractors impersonating gov't officials, are nothing more than private Citizens enforcing their will and statutes on Citizens they have zero authority to govern.

Remember: We haven't had a legitimate government body in this country since 1871 when the 41st Congress walked out sine die and the corporate take over began.

What we have in America is a foreign corporation occupying those seats of Congress, and impersonating a legitimate government body.

Source: The District of Columbia Act of 1871.

Edit:

“The United States Government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.” Volume 20: Corpus Juris Secundum, (P 1785: NY re: Merriam 36 N.E. 505 1441 S.Ct. 1973, 41 L. Ed. 287)

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT CORPORATION (created on February 21, 1871 by the Forty-First Congress, Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62: “An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia”. This is also known as the “Act of 1871″.

This is reflected in U.S. Code, Title 28 – JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE, (Chapter 176) Section 3002 (15) (a, b, & c); which states that ~

(15) ” United States ” means – (A) a Federal corporation; (B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; (C) an instrumentality of the United States

Question for Law Enforcement and Gov't Agencies Nationwide:

When you Infringe on the Rights of Private Citizens, and the day comes that you are forced to justify your decision to do so in a court of law, what will be your answer when that Private Citizen asks this question?

"What's the One Document, either Local/State/Federal Gov't has in their possession, that would Contractually Obligate anyone (other than gov't employees/elected officials/officers who ARE receiving pay and benefits to abide by internal statutes (US Code Title 1 - Title 50)), to abide by those internal statutes-rules-codes-regulations, and to do it for free - without pay, and without benefits of their own?"

Hint: If said Private Citizen has not signed an employment contract that clearly shows they are working and receiving pay from either Local/State/Federal Gov't, then that Private Citizen is not contractually obligated to abide by your internal statutory codes that only apply to gov't agents who are receiving a nice paycheck on the 1st and 15th, and a REAL NICE benefits package that entices said gov't agent to actually abide by those statutes.

No Contract = No Jurisdiction

Do you have the contract in your possession, or are you only bluffing?

Govern Yourselves Accordingly; you are working for a foreign corporation known as the UNITED STATES or the STATE OF *** that is doing business on American soil.

Mind your manners while you are here or you may be held liable in your private-personal capacity for Infringing on the Rights of Private Citizens who do not fall within the scope of your supposed authority.



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You might want to read this comment from below:

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2923392

Rod got EXACTLY what he set out to get, and it's not a Tim Turner delusional victory.

Better listen to the recordings I posted above before making quick judgement and looking like a fool.

Did you get the gist of the paperwork? Here we have an Asst. Attorney General who's using the 11th Amendment to protect him from possible state prosecution.

Listen to the shows and pay less attention to what you "think" you see in the decision(s) he's gathered.

He's got their ass in a real bind here, but the judges are 'trying' to protect the state, and it's not going to end good for the state or the judge if this keeps going.

Now, you know you were trying to decieve people

He's not The Assistant Attorney General of North Carolina, he's some dude who enjoys pestering the government and wasting time and energy. What remedy does he seek?

What the hell are you talking about Lawson?

Rod is not the Asst. Attorney General, he is a Private Attorney General by Congressional Authority.

He's fighting the Asst. Attorney General and the NC Revenue Agency in a tax case.

What remedy does he seek?

He's trying to set your dumbass free from gov't tyranny. He's trying to prove to YOU and the rest of us out here, that there is no legitimate gov't body occupying those agency seats, and if there is no legitimate gov't body occupying those Gov't Agency seats for the Tax Revenuers, etc. then that means they are private agencies; using private contractors to collect taxes and enforce internal gov't corporation statutes on non-gov't employees they have no legislative authority to tax or govern.

These people have as much authority to tax and arrest us as a G-d Damn 7-11 employee.

If you download and read it...

it seems on page 2 he already got a case dismissed against the department of transportation with the same charge.

But isn't Rodney an employee of the state? How can he claim sovereignty if he "receives a check"?

I believe page 13 is the smoking gun...

The people are smoking gun

The American sheeple who do not know how to operate their own government.

Did you listen to the audios I posted above?

This is why Rod took the time to record those shows:

Because the average idiot (not you personally) looks at the paperwork and decision and comes to the uneducated conclusion that he lost the case, when what he got them to admit is exactly what he set out to do in the first place.

There is no one home in those Agencies; they are being filled by private contractors that are not under the Administrative Authority of the State.

Listen to the shows please, this is EXACTLY why he did them, so he could explain to people what the decisions actually mean in the grande scheme of things.

He did not lose; he proved exactly what he set out to do. These crooked suckers are wordsmith's, and they write decisions to confuse the average reader into thinking Rod lost, but if you listen to Rod's show above, he'll will explain it to you.

No no, what I was saying was

No no, what I was saying was on page 13 it is a clear description of the case against DOT as to why it was dismissed. This backs your ideas about private contractors, agencies, etc. That was proof enough to me there is something to this.

People need to see it on paper, case files, to be honest, I've been looking into this for a little while, and outside a few you tube videos, there isn't a lot of real world documentation. True there is a lot of material out there, but to get the masses, as you know, this has to be put together in a nice short package. Sad but true. Keep it up south, keep refining the message, believe it not you are getting more people on board.

You people want to put our so called "government" back in

it's tiny little box? Do you really? ... Here's how you do it:

Call your Secretary of States Office tomorrow and get instructions on how to rescind your Voter Registration Signature from Their System.

This removes their presumption that you are one of their own internal employees. Now they have nothing to enter into the court record as Exhibit A stating you've volunteered yourself to be governed by their internal statutes.

Next: The next time any local/state/federal gov't agency contacts you for taxes, permits, anything .... ask them this in a Registered Mail letter:

"What's the One Document you have in your possession that would contractually obligate me to abide by your internal statutes and tax codes, and obligate me to do it for free - without pay, and without a benefits package of my own?"

If they aren't paying, we shouldn't be playing.

It's a foreign corporation doing business on American Soil, just like the Toyota Corporation. If they want you to abide by internal statutes and codes, then they need to start writing some big checks and doling out some very nice benefits packages.

Once this message gets out to the masses, and everyone starts demanding these jokers cough up an employment contract that obligates them to abide by their internal statutes (ie: US Code Title 1 - Title 50), and demands some pay and benefits, you'll see what's currently known as the UNITED STATES INC. decline in size and scope so rapidly, the human eye couldn't keep up with the speed of it's collapse.

This is how you put our so called gov't back in it's box; this is how you stop the war funding; this is how you shut down the IRS; this is how you shut down the police state.

All of a sudden it won't be near as fun to Play Government anymore, when the funds dry up. They'll take their foreign corporation back to Rome where it belongs and we can once again re-inhabit our True Republic.

Is that what you did?

?

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Yes, and I'm not the only one who's done it over the years.

Here's what I do when any local/state/federal gov't agency contacts me for taxing purposes; whether on issues of income tax, or the issue of collecting a sales tax for THEM.

http://www.dailypaul.com/269525/tax-tip-start-charging-the-i...

Be sure to read all the comments in that thread too; you'll be glad you did if you missed the party the first time :)

No one's interested in this? ..... LOL

I should have started a thread on something that would have REALLY knocked everyone's freedom socks off, like:

" Rand Paul caught on camera eating a hot dog at the ballpark "

or

" Chinese economist say earth will end in 2088 "

or

" Cosmic Rays in Sector Seven "

or

" 31 Ways to use Mason Jars in the Kitchen "

You know, things that REALLY make a difference and get gov't off your backs.

I mean who gives a chit about an Asst. Attorney General claiming his Sovereign Immunity under the 11th Amendment, right?

I'm surrounded by idiots who can't see a Gold coin, even if the Gold coin is sitting in the palm of their hand.

Me: Look, it's a Gold Coin worth $2,000.00 and I want you to have it! What are you going to do with all that money?

DP: " What, this old thing? ... Here you go; you can have it back, we only collect Silver Dollars".

It's sad that threads like this just disappear down the hole, and threads on Cosmic Rays or Grandma's Favorite Cookies end up on the homepage with 2,000 up votes in less than a minute.

Unbelievable.

This thread should be getting National Attention; should be sent to all freedom organisations and gun rights activist who believe gov't has no authority over their lives.

But Freedom doesn't taste near as good as Cosmic Rays in Sector Seven and Grandma's Frozen Yogurt Pudding, now does it?

More work to do.

Don't get upset

You put a lot of info in this thread and there are probably more people like me reading it who are doing searches on all the cases you mentioned and reading through them, and reading the links, etc etc
For someone like me, it takes a lot of time to comprehend all this stuff. Relax. Just because we don't comment doesn't mean we're not reading and digesting it all. I appreciate all the work you put into your posts and enjoy reading your comments on other posts, also. But if I don't reply it's because I'm still trying to digest all this stuff. I'd be a fool to try to make cogent commentaries on something I don't really understand yet.

But I do have one question: will any of this matter once America collapses? I mean, knowing what they did to subvert and pervert our founding principles and laws is an absolute must for the 'know history or repeat it' aspect, but actually knowing what our founding principles and laws are may be a more pressing need so that after the fall we can restore those things, no? In all honesty, there's a bunch of so-called Americans who don't even know what the 2nd Amendment is for.
Just don't be discouraged. We need people like you who are the warriors for justice.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Take a deep breath...

Relax South. I can understand your frustration, however give some people time to read and understand everything you posted. Also, you may be forgetting that this site is the Daily Paul, not the SovereignCitizen.org or something of that nature. DPers are known to try to work within this corporation to change it. Not everyone here is necessarily open to the idea of anarchy (you do realize that is what you are advocating, right).

I must commend you on your research and ability to find these types of hypocrites working for "us", or should I say "on our dime", but putting down people here is only going to get you more ignored.

I take serious issue

with suggesting this is anarchy. This is the exact opposite of anarchy. This is the law and it is not just because it is on some peice of paper somewhere. People here really need to understand this important point. There are really deep reasons why this is the law and why it is the exact opposite of anarchy.

The reason the DOI says governments derive their just power from the consent of the governed is because this is rooted in maxims of natural common law. The foundational maxims provide logical congruency for the process of law and the end result is that initiation of the powers of justice/just powers by the governed is the ONLY way for the judiciary of the State to remain truly impartial when acting as arbiter over a case and having an accuser who is accepting liability for the accusation is the only way that any entity does not break the law in the process of enforcing the law. Enforcing the law means providing protections of law NOT legally extorting,stealing, defrauding, kidnapping and murder enabled by law. There are so many maxims of law that tie into this concept that I would argue it is essentially all maxims of law that reinforce this very point. This is the very reason why the founders where the prime participants in shaping what we call the age of enlightment. The enlightment referred to here is the clarity in proper execution of law that applies logically congruent in such a way as that NO law is violated in the process of enforcing the Law! This is NOT anarchy! This is the antithesis to anarchy. Not being clear on this is exactly what will lead to the choas Ron Paul spoke of.

If people here want to work within the "system" to change the "policy" of the "agency" without knowing why all of this tyranny has become us then those same people will only be the tyrants of tomorrow continuing the decline into anarchy whether you are a Ron Paul supporter or not. This is the path of the feel-gooders.

There are other reasons inherent in natural law as to why the government cannot apply code to the People that is if not examined and understood will also contribute to slide into anarchy. The fact I speak of is the lack of liability that comes from the nanny state application of code that is probably the biggest contributor in the slide to tyranny that I am sure almost no-one here completely realizes. Human beings are adaptive creatures of nature that continuously and naturally adapt to the environment they are exposed to. If humans beings are exposed to having no liability for their actions then several inherently bad adaptations will occur. From a government law enforcer perspective one will adapt to having no remorse no matter how many people they throw in jail or kill. This will happen because they cannot be held accountable for their own actions. On the flip side the governed will become intellectual and physical sloths due to the fact that the nanny state will always take care of them and provide all of their safety. When one has no danger and has no liability for their own safety then they are no longer vigilant in their day to day actions they have the ability to adapt away from self responsibility and liability for at least participating in ensuring their own safety. This attitude means that now through this adaptation of living as a limited liabilty corporate "person" in the nanny state more criminals will get away with crime because less and less people feel the need to be aware and alert as an act participant in ensuring our communities are safe and prosperous.

I can see clearly that all of this code applied to the "legal person" is THE source of the entire destruction of the United States. Think about it. We right now have an unlawful tender that is a private banks debt note that is mathematically gauranteed to fail and the government is using violent force to force the use of this unlawful tender in direct violation of Article 1 Section 10 of the US Constitution. How can everyone here not realize that what we have RIGHT NOW IS ANARCHY because it is a completely lawless situation where other men who are supposed to be bound by a contract with the People are doing whatever they want all whie claiming no liability for their own actions?!?

SNAP OUT OF IT DPers!!! This is not Anarchy. This is the only Law can be applied properly within the scope of Thousands of Years of established law and where law enforcement does not have any requirement to ever break the law when enforcing it...

The most powerful Law of Nature is Time. It is finite and we all will run out of it. Use this Law to your advantage, for it offers you infinite possibilities...

haha you must have posted just as I was

starting to write my comment. I might not have written anything had I seen this and just upvoted your comment.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

LOL

That is funny!

I posted it yesterday, and crickets :)

I know this is the DP and everyone is trying to work on changing it from the inside, but what people don't understand, is the system works perfectly; it's working EXACTLY the way they set it up to work - for THEIR benefit and unjust enrichment.

People are busting their ass trying to get "Congressman Joe" into office, but they don't realize that when he gets there, he's still a corporate actor, that only has authority to legislate within his own corporation.

Instead of everyone trying to change something they can't, why not learn the things I and a few others are trying to pound home and simply ignore their system altogether, because it DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU unless you are getting a gov't paycheck on the 1st and 15th.

Why bust your ass to put someone in THEIR corporate seats that is going to reduce/raise your taxes by .00002%; that is going to supposedly fight for gun rights that has nothing to do with you unless you're an employee of that corporation?

Why do we give a schitt about what the Toyota Corporation is doing within their own internal affairs?

It doesn't apply to us, so why fight for the lowering of taxes or the right to bear arms when you're not even an employee of that corporation?

It's INSANITY!

Every gun law (I mean statute) that the Corporate Actors Guild masquerading as a legitimate gov't body passes, only applies to elected officials/officers/employees/resident-agents of the foreign corporation known as the UNITED STATES INC.

Let them pass whatever the hell they want to pass, it DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU!

Carry your guns; keep your money; ignore their statutes and stop trying to change the inner workings of a corporation you have absolutely NOTHING to do with ... LOL

If they have no employment contract on file for you and they have no payroll records proving you are an employee that is obligated to abide by their internal statutes, then why are you even entertaining the idea of arguing with them?

Let them raise the tax rate to 100% and criminalize ALL guns within their corporation if that's what they want to do.

Toyota Corp just passed a new $300 union fee that all employees have to pay by May 1, 2013, are all of us Non-Toyota Corp Employees going to run down there and pay the damn union fee?

It does NOT apply to us ........ period!

This is why it's so frustrating, but I will continue to pound this home until people wake up and GET IT.

Here's a question for ya..

If one serves in the military for an 8 year contract, 4 years active, the other 4 inactive ready reserve (meaning I get paid $200 once a year to show up to a sales pitch muster to inform menof job opportunities within the military community, and I'm into my 4 year Inactive ready reserve portion of contract, does this mean that I am bot sovereign?

Sage

No it doesn't, because the only time those internal

statutes apply to you, is when you are on the clock and receiving pay for your time.

Just because you're in the military, doesn't mean that every minute of your everyday is owed or owned by the military.

If you work at Burger King from 3PM to 10PM and you clock out and go home, does Burger King's internal rules-codes-statutes apply to you if you're not on the clock?

No.

When you are on the company clock, you must abide by internal statutes. When you clock out, you are now on YOUR time, and those statutes no longer apply to you ...... Until ...... You clock back in.

Not Necessarily True

I cannot get a job at the corporation down the road because they have a no smoking policy. They do a hair test to prove this.

Another way to look at it, is if I get drunk before I clock in, I'm still drunk! I might even have slept it off, but if I reek of whiskey in the morning and give my boss a big HELLO, he may fire me on the spot.

Even Burger King has a code of conduct that must be upheld even when off of the clock. Try saying something derogatory about your manager on Facebook, and watch how fast you are shown the door.

I'll go one further... Have you ever taken unemployment benefits, received an FHA loan, or maybe registered your vehicle with the state? Guess what! You are a government (corporate) entity. If you even have been proven to pay any tax whatsoever, you gave away your rights to the corporation. Take notice to your birth certificate, driver's licence, social security card, or any official document with your name on it. It will be spelled in all CAPITAL letters. Just like a corporation's name on any legal document. We are all "citizens" of the de jure U.S. Corporation as soon as we are born in a hospital.

I'll go one further than your "further":

If the government claims ownership of the vehicle because of the Registration, then that's Great!

Now that they've claimed ownership, they MUST also reimburse me for the tags; excise taxes, tires, wipers, engine replacement, transmission replacement, fuel, insurance and all back pay that I'm entitled to for driving a state owned vehicle.

They want to presume me into an employment position? That's awesome, now it's time to write me a check, because we can rest assured that the state would not let anyone other than a state employee drive around in one of their vehicles.

You are still apparently very early in your learning curve from reading you comment, but at least you are trying, and that's a good thing.

PS: They don't own you; they don't own your labor, and they can't enforce internal statutes on you without pay, unless you've signed an employment contract that said in plain and easy to read terms, that you agree to perform functions of gov't without pay and benefits like all other gov't employees are enjoying.