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Two more Smart Meter Opponents Arrested

Two vocal opponents of Naperville’s initiative to install wireless electric meters on homes were arrested after interfering with the installation process, according to city officials.

Police are accompanying crews this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away installers.

“The previous installation attempts were met with some resistance and we wanted to ensure our employees’ safety,” City Manager Doug Krieger said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/naperville/...




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"Attempted eavesdropping"

What the fuck is that??? They are on the customer's private property plus in full view from the public. How the hell can anyone have an expectation of privacy from the property owner or her guest when they are outside, in public, and trespassing?

Take back the GOP and Restore America Now.

If smart meters we so great for consumers?

Why is police force and incarceration needed to insure compliance?

Free includes debt-free!

its all about the end game

Technocracy

http://youtube.com/#/watch?v=ul5oQ3wbstQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatc...

The current system will inevitably fail, which has to be replaced by something else. This new "smart" system is assuredly not for the benefit of mankind...rather the continued benefit of corrupted men.

Bad link?

_

Free includes debt-free!

It's In Illinois

I don't like Illinois!

skippy

"Sheesh! Illinois Nazis." "I hate Illinois Nazis!"

JOLIET JAKE: "What's goin' on there?"

COP: "Aww, those bastards won their court case so they're marchin' today!"

JOLIET JAKE: "What bastards?"

COP: "The f***in' Nazi Party."

ELWOOD: "Sheesh! Illinois Nazis. Sheesh!"

JOLIET JAKE: "I hate Illinois Nazis!"

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

Why you should WANT a smart meter

I understand all the concerns of the group on these devices. I'm usually the one most worried about privacy (mostly the public camera/microphone and cell/internet snooping). However, there are a few things to consider here.

Big energy (oil, coal, gas, gasoline, electric, etc.) do have a monopoly on your power use. They have successfully kept us from switching en masse, to cleaner and cheaper fuels. There are many ways this battle is playing out and not everyone against you is on the same side. Many of them are battling each other. They just all agree that you should never win against any of them.

Renewables are getting a bad rap while at the same time, they are progressing much faster than any had hoped. Right now, you can buy PV solar panels for $1 per watt. An average home that uses 25 kWh/day, generally peaks at 3,000 watts at any one time. This means that "on average" (the catch phrase), a $3k purchase could power everything while the sun is out. To cover non-sun times, one would need to generate extra, store it and use it later. Doing this at home is expensive and wasteful (in the big scheme) but doing this 'on the grid' is actually saving the utility company money. For this reason YOU SHOULD GET PAID FAIRLY for what you send to them. However, til now, they only pay peanuts (about 10%) because they have lawmakers snowed and no citizen advocates fighting for it. Renewable installers / retailers don't want it either because they sell larger systems (higher profit margins) to each person to cover for an inefficient system. So, no one is fighting for your rights.

How to fix this? THE FREE MARKET. Don't listen to anyone who says giving them more control will lower your price. This doesn't work in other industries and it isn't working here. What you want is real market prices so you can decide what's best for you.

What's really best? If you had such a real-time, free market, you could save the day (as far as the impending lack of transmission line crisis goes), save fuel and save almost your entire power bill.

But solar/wind isn't cheap enough or good enough to do it. BS. Solar PV now is below par with natural gas and chasing coal's prices down. On top of that, making power on-site cuts waste in the system. Everyone knows about the 3-7% loss from transporting the power but did you know that by using AC to power your DC operated computer and electronics, you're losing another 65%! Compare the power needed to charge your laptop to that used by your desktop to do the same functions. It's about 10:1. (25 watts vs. 250 watts)

But that's not the whole picture. By saving people money, more people will install PV and that will drive the price down. Cost reduction techniques are losing funding all over because the outlook for PV is waning.

Wind, not so much. This really only works in regularly windy areas unless you're trying to make up the missing solar power in an off-grid system.

Enter NON-PV solar. New systems of concentrated sunlight are cutting costs dramatically. Some of these even have storage built in. (not DC batteries but pressure, heat, chemical or flywheel) These systems also have co-generation built in so that they provide electrical power, heat and chilling all together. They can cut costs by 25-50% more than today if they get to market. Again, funding them in this economic madhouse is getting almost comical. The excuses and blaming going on is virtually killing even the most private investment because of money laundering regulations. I dare anyone to try to transfer more than $10M in under 10 days. Norms are surpassing 180 days!

So, with a smart meter, we can have a fair system of payment (or ROI for an investor) so a company can make a profit, so an investor can make a profit, so a company can get funds to ramp up production, etc., etc. It's all connected.

Enter the media. The banks at the top of the food chain (right now) don't want much to change in the status quo. They make tons from every form of energy so they don't want any disruptive new tech encroaching. This is why they support only those renewables which ARE NOT A THREAT. You won't see any game changer promoted as being ready to go and economically viable.

THE GRID. It's costing us about 1/3 or 1/2 of current rates just to maintain this system under their control. We need to take it's control back and allow the free market to float the prices back down to sane levels. This will not only encourage investment in the most efficient generation, whatever that may be. With an open controlling system like the internet uses, total energy could be cut significantly and those savings would be in your pocket. In addition to that, let's not forget that with power use escalating as is it, they're going to try to impose further liberty restrictions on us with Cap-n-Trade.

To see a proposal of how this works, check out https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/the-living-s...

It's only with these type of changes that we're going to move out of the realm of monopolistic control and into the realm of putting technology to work for us.

Right now, we have more than enough displays, input devices, microprocessors, speakers, monitors and sensors already in our homes to make them automated to whatever point we want. Picture the utopian smart house that everyone fears so much but make that happen under YOUR CONTROL. You get to decide what it does and when. You get to control it's ultimate capabilities. You get to limit it's access from those outside your family. Those limits are very real and are being imposed on the systems being designed today. We all know this is the long term future of technology, whether it's yours or your sleeping neighbor, so why not ensure it's under our total control. I sure don't want my kids growing up in a world that includes the government intrusiveness of iRobot or 5th Dimension. If we do this the right way, we can have both high tech at our beck and call and complete privacy while eliminating our energy bill monthly monopoly payment.

In closing, I'd just like to also state that the ONLY WAY I see our society working well for us is if we can provide all the people (not just the US) with options that get them "off the grid" with respect to all the things they need. This means food, shelter, water, communication, education, transportation, information and entertainment. Every one of those is in various stages of getting to market and every one will replace the tyranny of monthly serfdom with a short period of savings. If this progress is supported to the point that it happens, the average lifetime earning requirement will drop by as much as 2/3rds. What better way to fight off the big banks and their social system of hyper-commercialism than to retire early? (By the way, I love the NWO schill names I was called. That's EFFing hilarious!)

Current smart meters have a lot of problems

I'm sure you're aware of all this, but current models have in some cases interfered with medical devices (pacemakers). ToorCon this year had a great segment about the hackability of the smartmeters--all you need is the appropriate cable and bam, you have total control (if you know what you're doing) over the meter's functioning, and by extension, the house's power supply..

This is all hypothetical

Consumers will never benefit.

Free includes debt-free!

Really? That's where you're going?

No technical arguments hold water against what I've been saying here for 2-3 days so instead of well-wishing, you're going that way. Nice.

What that Margaret Mead quote? "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world. For indeed that's all who ever have." I believe that refers to new ideas that haven't been tried before.

"Consumers will never benefit." ??
...kind of like the genuine free market for the whole economy.

So why try, right?

Most of the technical dribble you've posted is conjecture.

The political reason is pure collectivism.

All promise. No fact, and no indication that their is the political will for politicians to overthrow their cronies.

Why make a bad bet?

Free includes debt-free!

The way I see it, you've got a choice.

You can have smart meters that they control or you can have smart meters that foster a free market and are not an instrument of control. Which would you fight for?

Most of the things on this site are conjecture. I have posted factual information based on more than a decade of personal involvement. I have had numerous lengthy and heated debates with people of all levels of involvement with these devices. I have designed and built these things. I have proposed and installed them. I have vigorously considered the fears of their opponents and to combat that, I have proposed a way to use them in which all direct players win (IOW, the bankers/NWO/elites/TPTB are NOT direct players). Therefore, I do not appreciate my words being labeled as technical dribble or conjecture.

The politicians do not know of any issues with this topic. I have personally informed a number of them which resulted in their full backing. In short, there is no justifiable reason they can produce to not support it. This process is very slow and I have lost more support to elections than I have gained over the years. This is why I believe the issue must be brought to the public.

Like it or not, the utility companies (public or private) own the meters and the right to monitor their product's sale in any way they choose. This means we WILL all be getting them at one point. If we do nothing to guide that process down the right path, we'll get exactly what you fear happening. Fighting the adoption of smart meters on health or privacy reasons is completely pointless since neither of those issues exist. If you're looking for conjecture, THEY are so in spades. Why not fight to put the adoption of these devices on the right path?

This is not a bet. This is activism.

Well I am actively opposed to your collectivist pipe dreams.

Make a device that does not talk to the power company or it's government handlers, I would be interested.

I contracted with the power company to buy power. I don't want their help on how I use it. If that is no longer acceptable, then the Utility is in breach.

The so-called Smart Grid is presumed but it is a pretense of knowledge. I don't fear devices. But I do have concerns about trusting faulty engineering. I've been working with power production machinery and control systems for 50 years.

Under what conditions can the power be shut off. If I don't surrender arms? Or fail to buy ObomaCare, or submit to government theft? The IRS has habit of seizing bank accounts. Maybe they will decide I need to go on an energy restrictive diet, leaving them more to loot.

Instead of admitting the massive industry failure in centralizing production they want to foist on their customers a faulty promise of benefit?

They screwed up an we need to save their bacon? Let them go bankrupt. It's the American reward for being stupid money losers.

Free includes debt-free!

Communication explained.

If you really think about it, most of the comments here are not making sense. I'll touch on some of the 'issues' here in one post so people can get an idea of how the whole system works.

Sure a pickup coil can read power but that's still a meter. Calling it a transducer (a generic term for any type of sensor but more specifically, a converter of one form of energy to another) doesn't make any sense. Regardless of what's inside, it's allowable to call it that.

Common low power-loss ways to measure power in this case are done by a small chip measuring a tiny voltage drop across a bridge-type of shunt. This drops the power loss way down while offering a small voltage to tap for powering the meter. These can be built for $30 (or less in mass). Add in a wireless transmitter and you're talking radio. Now you need a cheap processor to clock the readings, convert them to digital info, package them up and send them out. This means you have a microprocessor. For cost savings, these rarely have more memory than your microwave oven although if one wants to save a month's worth of data and then burst it out at once, memory is needed. Bursting is preferable because the communication requirements are less stringent and the transmission is more secure (less time send/receive) but there are other problems.

How that transmitter does the actual communications is up to choice also. If a regular $1 WiFi (802.11n) chip is used, range is less than 1000 feet so expensive repeaters are needed all over town. Security can be implemented if desired and usually is. Security, however, is less of a concern if a power-line transmitter is used because this multiplexes that data on the power wire and keeps it off the airwaves (so tapping into the wire is required to read any data). Many smart meters use power-line just to eliminate messing with passwords, etc. Since this also ELIMINATES any health concerns because there's NO RADIO INVOLVED, many fake health fearmongers have been exposed because they continue to claim bad health effects under this system! Another common type of radio chip is often considered. It's called Zigbee and can send/receive up to 1-3 miles if conditions are right. (They're common in RC cars.) It does this by using a form of signal encoding which splits the signal and time slices it into a larger, high frequency signal. Common techniques will allow many individual radios to use the same frequency. This does use more power but it should be noted that both power and frequency are lower while technique is identical to cell phone transceiving. In effect, it's a low power cell phone.

In both power-line and radio, the overall device that communicates data out is modulating and demodulating it to a carrier signal - aka MO-DEM. The carrier is like the radio station frequency number you select while the data is like the song being listened to. It's no different - especially in today's age of digital radio and TV.

As I mentioned, there is the OPTION to communicate to the house and it's appliances if there was something there that had the identical transmitter and used the same modem, encoder, multiplexer, protocol, network name, user database, password AND APPLICATION. Without any of these matching, it's just like a home PC using a DSL router to talk to a cable system before even calling to get internet access and account info. It won't happen. Home appliances will have to have their transmission system match on every aspect AND have to have addresses, IDs, accounts and passwords set up. How is that going to happen inside your dishwasher without your permission? Pfft!

Without security, the utility company opens up THEIR network to manipulation because every 13 year old would be hacking his parents' power usage down to the minimum to hide 5 kW of pot grow lights and A/C units in the basement!

Smart meters like countless

Smart meters like countless other topics is one where average people think the capabilities of the smart meters and smart grid are paranoid "conspiracy theory" of kooks. They don't read any of the press releases or brochures for the meters or anything. At most they go to the cleverly worded FAQ from the utilities that says they don't track what appliances people use... so they think smart meters can't do that. Of course they can, it's just that those features aren't used yet. To most people the smart meter just means peak load pricing and no meter reader.... which of course could be accomplished with much more simple devices.

I dealt with that in another forum today until I shoved a two year old Maytag press release in their faces that explicitly said their new 'smart' dryer would take instructions from the utility via the smart grid (which means through the smart meter).

What is so aggravating is that people don't even inform themselves. None of this stuff would happen if people just bothered to inform themselves instead of just allowing themselves to be socially manipulated into going along.

We should

We all should be making calls for their release! This is criminal what the city is doing!

What people don't understand about the grid

is that dumb meters are just another way that your are being chained to big energy companies. Hear me out...

By having smart meters, we can directly compete with the utility companies (yes they are fighting that battle and losing) by installing our own renewables.

Depending on your local resources, solar or wind can be much cheaper ways to power your house. The trouble arises when you try to net-meter that power to provide yourself with a form of backup. So far, most rates only pay about 10% of the going rate for supplied power that they charge for it. With smart meters and time-of-use metering, this could easily be changed so that you can earn money for your power (not just a tiny credit).

For example, many areas pay 1.2 cents/kWh for PV power sent back to the grid. In these areas, they charge 12-15 cents/kWh for purchased power. They argue that they only need to pay the avoided cost (the fuel saved at that moment) because renewables aren't significant enough to supply mass amounts. So, according to them, they can't reduce their work force or transmission lines or anything else. Fair point, but things would change with fair metering.

If a smart meter was installed and TOU rates were charged, the price at night would be 2-4 cents/kWh and the afternoon rates would be close to 50 cents/kWh. (It's 56 cents in So.Cal.) So, under such a system, you could install PV and pay 2 cents for the 10 kWh you use each night (totaling 20 cents) and get paid 20-50 cents for the 15 kWh excess you make during the day (totaling $5). This means that instead of paying $100, you could earn $140/month.

Because this isn't possible or allowed yet, is the sole reason that home renewables haven't taken off yet. On an even comparison, they are already cheaper than grid power. The ironic part is that people fighting for lower prices are fighting TO KEEP this monopolistic system in place. One would think people could see the free market as a better alternative.

Why isn't this being done and what could it lower our prices to? The power market makes money on the margin of the highest rates (due to bidding/forecasting) charged in that region. Keeping peakers on spinning reserve keeps those rates high and x% of that higher number is a higher profit. Without this great fear of not keeping up with our demand at some odd time, the rates could immediately drop by 20%, with longterm (planned) equipment organized around it, those rates could drop another 20-30%. Coincidentally, this is about the same price to the customer that a 'fair metered' PV system would cost a customer to run now. And one last note on efficiency... This would also allow us to more than eliminate all foreign oil.

what you do not understand about the grid.

this post is SO lame dude.
simple transducers are frequently used to measure power consumption. as you should well know. it is not necessary to have an inline meter.

the reason renewables have not taken off yet is that you cannot sell the excess power? right, that would stop me!

"Keeping peakers on spinning reserve" is that really what they are doing? or does that have to be done anyhow much like the water company does?

back in the late 80's I was working with energy management systems that were able to communicate through the high voltage wiring system.
what they are really installing is a modem.
and I will bet that you know it Jaspeer.

I don't get the Jaspeer reference

but I'll reply on the rest.

Any device that senses or measures (meters included) can be called a transducer in general terms. Technically however, it is a device that changes energy from one form to another. Examples would be a motor, generator, burner, compressor, pressure sensor, position sensor or even a relay. Not a very useful term in actuality.

By not being cost effective to send your excess power from a renewable system back to the grid, you will have to do one of two things. You will have to size your system to generate only what you can use (and purchase the rest) or size it much larger so you can cover the down-times when you get no sun or wind. In either case, you need the grid connection to make the system economically viable. In the latter case, it's to get some return on all that extra money you spent on the larger system.

Yes, they do keep peak power generators on spinning standby status. All across the country, there are hundreds of generators idling away, waiting for some news event which will cause millions of TVs to turn on within a couple minute span. Electricity must always be made in the exact quantity that it is used or demand will cause problems.

Yes, you CAN communicate via the power lines. It's actually called "power-line", BPL (broadband power line), X10, Insteon or HomePlug and you can buy modems for home automation use. They plug into any power source and convert ethernet to BPL. But you need a similar modem on the other end to make it work. There's no way a power company's system can talk to a homeowner's refrigerator that isn't specifically set up to do so.

I'm calling Bull on your post

"By having smart meters, we can directly compete with the utility companies (yes they are fighting that battle and losing) by installing our own renewables.

Depending on your local resources, solar or wind can be much cheaper ways to power your house..."

The above is what you say but it's just not true. Smart meters have nothing to do with 'competition'. They are spying devices, pure and simple.
And solar doesn't work in most areas because what they supply to the serfs isn't powerful enough. Solar doesn't work at all at certain latitudes. If you 'go off-grid' you go off grid. Period. Wind energy as is, is a complete farce. Won't work unless there is sustained wind and that doesn't happen.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

You should do more research

You simply can't go around spouting claims that these meters are for spying and justifying it by adding "plain and simple". They CAN be used as such but you first have to have equipment in your appliances and have the communication set up to work with that device for it to work. Unless you regularly allow your utility company to reprogram your indoor appliances, this ain't happenin'. ...Plain and simple.

Regarding the spying... What's the goal there? Realistically, if this were even possible, what motive would a utility have for knowing your power habits? They can't possibly (despite what others claim here) know your TV channel or the web site you're using (that, the NSA already knows) by watching power. So, we're down to knowing when you wash the dishes or clothes or when you watch TV or spend time just reading. This just doesn't make one bit of sense. It's not like they're going to be able to shut anything off without your consent. (For that, you need to actively purchase an appliance with that feature!)

And regarding renewables. You're about 5-10 years behind the times. Home concentrated PV (tracking mirrors on small cells) will pay for itself in 3-5 years NOW (leaving no expenses for 20 years beyond cleaning) and actually works better in colder climates. Sure, it's not practical up around the arctic circle during the winter but we're talking about the world as a whole. Let Alaska keep some of their oil for winters.

Going off grid is actually much easier than the media would allow you to know. Yes storage is needed for down times, but there's more than just DC batteries to store energy in. Solar thermal to electric systems can easily have 2-3 days worth of storage for cheap and have natural gas, hydrogen, propane, gasoline, heating oil or coal as an emergency backup for that once a year event where you don't get sun for more than 3 days. Why would you denigrate these systems if they save you 90% of your power costs over 20 years because they're free after 10? Because you don't know about them.

AC power cannot be stored. DC can.

this is the inherent problem.

this is why we have to keep peakers on spinning reserve......
it made me laugh just writing that!

That's what I thought then I read about:

Detroit Edison Marysville MI.
Coal fired plant pumps water into a reservoir. Hydroelectric power is used to meet peak demand.

I fill empty space in my freezer with milk jugs of water (brine better?).

Then if the power fails the food stays frozen longer.

HVACTech, is it more efficient over the long haul to run the compressor longer and less often?

TIA

Free includes debt-free!

compressors will "float with the load"

they will pull more amps when the load is high.
all any of these machines do is to move heat from one place to another.
it is best just to allow them to maintain the proper temp, not try to reestablish it....
they pull the most current when starting and when under a load.
this is why you should not short cycle them.
ohm's law works pretty darn good on an inductive circuit.
I hope that answers your Q.

So should I keep the freezer loaded as I use produce (ice)

So should I keep the freezer loaded as I use produce (ice). As a general rule.

Or should I let eating reduce the load.

The end goal is to reduce power consumption

Or does it make no difference.

Free includes debt-free!

Smart meters are not just

Smart meters are not just measuring usage at time of day and allowing remote reading. That is just the first layer of their capabilities.

A smart meter on a home is essentially a router for every electrical device in the home that supports the network communication. It will forward instructions from the smart grid to the appliances. It will also forward the usages from the appliances back to the utility. Also the smart meter data can be used to identify what is running at any given time even if the devices aren't capable of communication based on things like the load profile and back EMF. It requires understanding what those profiles are, but it should be relatively easy to classify a furnace or a dishwasher or other major appliances generically.

Don't look at what the utilities put out. It's intentionally misleading. Read the press releases, brochures, and technical information on the smart meters, smart appliances, and smart grid. It is there where these capabilities are described.

If they were just load and time they would be very simple devices and of no particular interest beyond their broadcasting.

this is correct information.

.

Visual Aid...

Great meme

That is a great meme. Wished I'd seen it before the election...

I'm sorry.

I didn't realize that I posted the WRONG photo.

HERE is the photo I meant to post. It is actually relevant to the OP unlike the one above...