7 votes

Abortion issue taken to extremes in New Mexico

EDIT: This post is to ask one specific question:
"Could you agree that the government is not fit to make this decision?"
Please feel free to express your opinion ONCE, then let it go. Please. This is an attempt to find common ground, if you cannot meet me here that is OK, but this is not really the place for arguing. It is "given" that we do not all agree on this.

Since everybody has a deeply held conviction regarding abortion, myself included, I have spent years seeking the "common ground" on this issue. I think I found it, but most with "deeply help convictions" feel that a step toward my proposed common ground is compromising on their convictions. Please understand, I see a possible future where abortions are routine, used for birth control, get them done "while you wait" and it fills me with dread. I do NOT want to see that. But, I LIVED in a world where abortions were illegal, and I had friends who as teenagers got butchered by coat-hanger abortions, and I don't want to go back to that, either. The only real answer - in my opinion - is to leave this between each woman and her creator. Fathers need to select their mates carefully, do not have casual sex with women who feel abortions are OK. But don't ask the government to give you a right that biology simply denies you. A woman can abort a fetus, and never tell anyone. Laws will not change that, so why are we trying to make laws to do God's job? The only REAL solution is to get the government OUT of this discussion. Why is this imperative? Because if you leave the government in charge of matters this important, they will do ignorant things like this:
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/01/24/1490691/new-mexic...

So, express your convictions if you feel the need, but tell me, please... Could you agree that the government is not fit to make this decision?



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Closing down clinics in Texas & women are going to Mexico to get

a dangerous drug that sometimes aborts the fetus.

"women going to pharmacies across the border in Mexico, in search of a drug they hope will terminate unwanted pregnancies.

But the providers say that the pharmacies, which are largely unregulated, often fail to give proper instructions for the drug, misoprostol, and that it does not always give the women the result they seek.

This can lead to death or many handicapped or brain damaged babies.

http://www.texastribune.org/2012/08/12/looking-mexico-altern...

I agree with you Fishy

I have my own story but believe that this issue is between a woman, her doctor and their creator. I applaud those that champion life but I understand that life is complicated.

I will say though, the decision I made was the worst decision I ever made and will haunt me until the day I die. I was young and scared. I held my girlfriend for 7 days for fear of her taking her own life. It is honestly the only regret I have. I do not believe I will ever be able to forgive myself.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

Well, I forgive you.

At least you went through it with her. I had a 15 year old friend with a boyfriend who said "Get rid of it" when she got pregnant. Roe V Wade had just passed, but you still could not find a "provider" on our area. And, having to do this on waitress wages, off to the back alley she went. She was unable to ever get pregnant again.
When I was raped, I was so naive I thought I was probably pregnant. I was actually a pro-life, Sunday School teaching virgin at the time. I knew if I aborted the baby I'd go to hell. I knew if I told my parents they would kick me to the curb. I may have been wrong, but I don't really think so. They were lovely parents in many ways, but a little zealous in other ways. At any rate, at 15 I was sure of it. Adoption was a ridiculous option, I would be homeless and without healthcare and could not imagine how I would survive a pregnancy. Furthermore, I did not want to have a baby come find me 20 years later asking about their daddy. I had a friend commit suicide when I was 14, and I watched her church try to pray her out of purgatory, and I actually decided that might be my best bet. That was the brilliant conclusion of a 15 year old rape victim.... Suicide, and maybe my friends could pray me into heaven. In what I consider a small miracle, "Aunt Flo" stopped by the next day.
Teenagers will have sex. Shaming them into bad decisions is something I have trouble forgiving society for. Those who made decisions based on lies and propaganda are victims. I forgive victims.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Thank you so much..

Forgiveness always feels good with anyone close the front line of any issue. In all honesty though.. I dont believe any God can take away how I feel about it.

Thank you for sharing. It means alot.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

The abortionist is in it for the money, and nothing else!

Unless, he holds to the overpopulation lie or is a satanist or sadist--which of course, I don't put it past any abortionist to have an ideology that causes them to love their 'work'. They certainly care nothing for the woman or child.

I'm sorry for your loss. I wish more people would wake up before making such a tragic decision.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

It is an horrific tragedy

My daughter took a morning after pill, which at a very practical level I am OK with. Yet the "granny" in me screams in agony still. I actually got really angry at her for telling me - it was between her, her boyfriend and God. If she had wanted or needed my advice, that is one thing, but to tell me after the fact.... Why?
I believe with all my heart that as long as we allow politicians to engage in this discussion, it will incite the division they seek. Caught in the crossfire are frightened teenagers and fetuses.
If we really held motherhood as sacred, and celebrated even the "Oops!" babies, we have a chance of ending the NEED for abortion. Instead, we condemn teenagers who get pregnant and condemn them for trying to make the shameful pregnancy go away.

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

Yeah, especially after encouraging them to have sex

in the first place. Wait til you see this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZan-pmFpWQ

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Abortion is morally wrong.

Abortion is morally wrong. However, the consequences of making it illegal are well documented in history. I believe abortions within the first trimester must remain an option. I do agree w/Dr Paul though and think this is an issue that is best left to the states to decide. Forcing a woman to carry the child of her rapist is beyond cruel and introducing bills like this (that would never pass anyway) merely serves to turn voters off to Republicans.

Then why have any laws at all?

A really lame argument, as is any argument that allows for murder.

No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul

The Issue is Money

No, Dr. Paul wanted a FEDERAL LEVEL Sanctity of Life Act. He proposed it in 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011. He wanted STATES to be able to PROTECT the unborn.

Ron Paul said this: "Unless we understand…we must protect life, we cannot protect liberty."

He is opposed to abortion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkAsLPrnJGc&feature=player_em...

Not a single co-sponsor: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.1096:
"a) Finding- The Congress finds that present day scientific evidence indicates a significant likelihood that actual human life exists from conception.
(b) Declaration- Upon the basis of this finding, and in the exercise of the powers of the Congress--
(1) the Congress declares that--
(A) human life shall be deemed to exist from conception, without regard to race, sex, age, health, defect, or condition of dependency; and
(B) the term `person' shall include all human life as defined in subparagraph (A); and
(2) the Congress recognizes that each State has the authority to protect lives of unborn children residing in the jurisdiction of that State."
--------------
Abortion is a political money game where women and unborn children are but fodder. Why do you think there was not a single co-sponsor? Whose pockets are lined with the blood and suffering of unborn children and their mothers?

...

I know he's pro-life(obviously)...

I just thought he wanted the states to decide if they wanted to ban it or not(?) Either way, I personally feel sickened by the thought of abortions past the first trimester...

http://youtu.be/lNFF614YyFA

Why stop murder after the

Why stop murder after the first trimester?

Does everyone know their due date?

I have to run. Look up The Silent Screem comment I made below. I think the info might be helpful.

NM bill unconscionable

I agree fishyculture. The government has no right to control our bodies. The government is a body and we, the people, control IT.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

But...

if the bill passed, wouldn't that be what the people of New Mexico are doing? Controlling their government through their elected officials?

When you're right, you're right. That's "democracy."

When you're right, you're right. That's "democracy."

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

I disagree

I would like to addd: Nor the bodies of the unborn.

The declaration of independence declares all are created equal and have the Creator Given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and that governments are instituted by the concent of the people to secure those rights.

If you do not protect the right of the unborn you will not be able too protect any life. The government is supposed to protect rights. No one individual's right is any more important than any other individuals right. So, tell me, how is it that the unborn may be murdered? Is it because a woman has a right that is elevated above a child?

Ron Paul: "Unless we understand…we must protect life, we cannot protect liberty."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkAsLPrnJGc&feature=player_em...

Spoken by the Champion of Liberty. I hope we can hear him. Abortion is about money. Not about rights.

I am in a hurry so if I sound snippy will you please for forgive me mdefarge? My Friend in Liberty.

...

I know we disagree, my friend

I certainly have respect for your opinion. Aside from my personal regard and the fact that it's you, bear... if I believed abortion was akin to murder, I'd be advocating that it be made illegal, too. I just don't. Not everybody does. And so there will always be a divide. I'm sorry for that because there are caring, well-meaning people on both sides.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Yes,

my friend. Thank you for graciously allowing me to voice my dissent :)

I found this comment the most enlightening...I wish I had read and understood the meaning of the bill and said so myself.

I understand people not believing that

killing an embryo is murder. I really don't. I can even see people not believing killing a baby in the first trimester is murder. But, I'm sure you would consider it murder to kill a baby as soon as it comes out of his mother's womb...? How could it not be murder to kill that same viable baby just before it gets to the door? I know some people don't believe a baby is alive until he takes his first breath of air. With ultra-sounds though, that's an impossible idea to sell.

Why don't we just let women kill their kids up to age 18??

What is the difference?

Murder is murder.

Abortion should be prosecuted in the same manner as murder and no less than man slaughter.

Maybe we could call it child slaughter or baby slaughter and at least punish it.

.

I know a few brats that could

I know a few brats that could be viable candidates under your parental amnesty program.

The pro-life movement is really stupid....and I'm in it.

I realized a long time ago that abortion will only stop when the hearts of the mothers are changed--because, like you say, a woman can take an herb to have an abortion.

Every time the pro-life lobby gets a bill like this passed they are further solidifying the pro-abortion argument that the fetus is not a baby. I WILL NOT sign petitions for laws to inform the mother that her baby will feel pain, or that abortion must wait 24 hours, or that a mother must see an ultrasound. Because it is basically saying, "yes it's a baby, but we can kill it after these things are done".

Any time anything real is going to be done to actually stop abortion, the pro-life movement (National Right-to-Life, etc.) works against it by saying it's too harsh or it's not the right time. Sad but true--their livelihood (donations) rely on abortion staying legal, so they are not going to do what it takes to stop it. They'll just pass all these little regulations so they can pretend they are pro-life.

So, my fellow pro-lifers ask me what I think we should do to stop abortion. I say, at a local level, the sheriff should say, "no abortionist in my county". Don't go after the mothers (it's unenforceable unless you trample everyone's rights)--go after the killers themselves. And all the while, we need to be showing women how they've been lied to and convinced to go against their nature by not having and raising children. We must show them how abortion damages them. We must show them that God will hold them accountable for murder. And, We must show them that motherhood is beautiful.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

A sheriff doesn't have that authority

any more than a governor or state legislature does because of Roe.

And until Roe v. Wade is overturned, state regulations on abortions are the only way to "run the abortionists outta town." Since 2010, we've seen the most massive gains of pro-life legislators since Roe v. Wade. This past election cycle, despite the losses at the Senate and presidential level, the House of Representatives and state legislatures saw gains in pro-lifers. If the listen to Bloomberg or NPR, you'll find the abortion industry is extremely worried about abortion providers being regulated out of business over the past two years.

If local people back the sheriff, he does.

And what makes you think that people that butcher babies for a living are going to care about some silly regulations? It's like murderers caring about gun bans.

These pro-life strides you're referring to have not returned legal protection to even one unborn baby. The pro-life lawmakers for the most part are gutless. They won't even say, "we want to legislate them out of business in our state." They say things like, "well, we don't want to lose the mother and the baby, so we need sanitary conditions, yada yada." I've heard them myself. And when a sheriff up north said he would use lethal force to keep abortionists from operating in his county, he got all kinds of flack---mostly from pro-lifers. He apologized as they almost always do. No guts!

And yes, abortion industry workers (peons) are worried. But, I doubt the bigwigs are the least bit concerned.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Oh, I forgot one more thing.

Oh, I forgot one more thing. We need to show America what abortion really looks like.

http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abo...

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Nice!

It is good to see that a reasonably intelligent response can come from one of us pro-lifers. As a surgeon, I could not perform an abortion. As an ER doc, I got to deliver a handful of babies. Nothing could replace that joy, except, maybe, the time I gave a stillborn infant mouth to mouth, to get her going!

Thing is, like all other prohibitions, we just create more criminals! We end up with prisons full of non-violent people, because we don't approve of their private decisions.

It is between God and them, period!

WOW..

The lengths some people will go to save a few babies

Cyril's picture

They are babies.

They are babies.

It saddens me to think we won't protect them better any time soon.

As I tried to explain, before hoping to save more babies from that, we ought to recover our freedoms and humanity first.

TPTB has been busy reengineering us to lose both. For decades.

Desperate women dependent on the statists standards is just another type of useful "commodities" for the planners' spreadsheets (and big pharma buddy).

Just like the unemployed, the elders, the poor. Etc.

Tyranny feeds itself on the misery it creates.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Actually...

My facetious remark may have been lost... I was specifically trying to point out that when the writer of the article suggests that this legislation is hypocritical because of personhood debate.. maybe, just maybe they don't care about how it looks, they are simply trying to save these babies lives any creative way they can.

Kind of like...

...that back-door approach Willem Wilberforce and company used to abolish slavery in England -- by first framing it in terms of British subjects not trading with French colonies.