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What exactly is the Bible?

I'm writing this because in the last week, not just only DP, but I have had people argue for their beliefs of various topics, ranging from anarchy to minarchy, and more. But people keep telling me they hate Christians because Christians want and expect everyone to be slaves.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this so I wanted to clear something up.

I will say first I completely accept your beliefs, if you do not wish to accept Christianity that's fine, but I have to set something straight so people can stop hatemongering and spreading the wrong message.

The Bible is not a book of tyranny. it is not a book that says, "You WILL obey God." It says, "You should obey God."

Throughout the whole Bible, the message of Liberty is spread. It says that man was meant to rule, and not each other, but over the earth and be caretakers of it. Man is NOT meant to be slaves to any man, and definitely not slaves to God. Each man has his own free will to choose.

The Bible does ask for submission. However to submit is not to be enslaved, it is to willingly serve. You will find that serving others inspires others to serve you. All of the principles of Bill of Rights and dare I say, yes, the Declaration of Independence and natures law, can be directly pulled from the Bible.

I just wanted to clarify that, because many seem to think the Bible is the cause of war. I guess if that's true, than so is Liberty. Because liberty and freedom is exactly what the Bible teaches us to take part in. Just for the record, it also teaches us to stay out of entangling alliances.

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So.....

I'm supposed to believe that I need to send telepathic messages to a jewish ghost saying I accept him as my master and beg him to remove a magical curse placed upon me because the first ever woman (who was made from the rib of the first ever man) ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to??

In the same way we are conversant

in the founding documents, we should be familiar with the KJV Bible and others used at the time.

Doesn't hurt to have Webster's first edition, either, which was designed, first and foremost, as a dictionary for the Bible.

Sun Ra says the Bible is a dictionary. If you want to know whether a word is bad or not, look at where it shows up in the Bible.

To me, the idea of "waking up" is somewhat akin to "being saved."

Jesus was willingly tortured and murdered for the sake of everyone, so that no one need ever choose that same path.

We were to be ruled by law, not man. We are born free agents, and whether one ever comprehends the good news or not, it is really very much like trying to argue with a scaredy-cat control freak about gun control.

It seems pretty foolish to me to close your mind to this book, of all books. Don't believe it, but know that its influence is historical fact, and to deny yourself an understanding allusions that are an embedded aspect of our language and literature.

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Do you take the book of Exodus into consideration at all?

I feel you may mean well, but are quite ignorant about the edicts prescribed by non-Apocrypha texts.Not at the least, to mention how one group of people are blessed more than others, based on blood. I feel that many "Christians", do not act "christlike" because of their blind acceptance of one or another version of the so called bible. Study why there are so many versions of just the 'Christian" texts, and then explain to me where you see liberty abounding.If you still feel that way fine. But don't expect others to not take the LIBERTY to express themselves.

answer...

The Bible (from Koine Greek τὰ βιβλία, tà biblía, "the books") is a canonical collection of texts considered sacred in Judaism or Christianity. Different religious groups include different books within their canons, in different orders, and sometimes divide or combine books, or incorporate additional material into canonical books. Christian Bibles range from the sixty-six books of the Protestant canon to the eighty-one books of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church canon.

The Hebrew Bible, or Tanakh, contains twenty-four books divided into three parts; the five books of the Torah ("teaching" or "law"), the Nevi'im ("prophets"), and the Ketuvim ("writings"). The first part of Christian Bibles is the Old Testament, which contains, at minimum, the twenty-four books of the Hebrew Bible divided into thirty-nine books and ordered differently than the Hebrew Bible.

The Catholic Church and Eastern Christian churches also hold certain deuterocanonical books and passages to be part of the Old Testament canon. The second part is the New Testament, containing twenty-seven books; the four Canonical gospels, Acts of the Apostles, twenty-one Epistles or letters and the Book of Revelation.

The Bible was divided into chapters in the 13th century by Stephen Langton and into verses in the 16th century by French printer Robert Estienne and is now usually cited by book, chapter, and verse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

BUMP

Good post.

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."

No.7's picture

bump. +1

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" -Ghandi

I cannot stand the people who think anyone who believes another of the worlds major religions is bound for hell, or anyone that condemns others to hell but thinks they themselves deserve heaven for some reason. I hate that, those people don't even understand the teachings of Christ. Christ was radical, Christ blew peoples minds and said things that were outrageous to the culture. Christ was the ultimate truther, but today's self proclaimed Christians want anything but the truth.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

How's this for radical?

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. - John 3:18

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. - John 3:36

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. - Acts 4:6

There is nothing more outrageous in this culture than to tell people they are going to hell if they reject Christ. And that "mind blowing" fact is exactly what Christ taught.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

No.7's picture

Yes, I've had all those verses shoved down my throat too.

The first one the most, John 14:6. Where he says "no one can come to the father but through me". However, those people never mention John 14:2 that says "In my fathers house are many rooms, if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." Couldn't someone interpret that to mean that many religions are accepted in heaven? I honestly believe that when Jesus told people that He was the only way, He meant that He was the only way for those specific people. However one can interpret the Bible in different ways.

How about Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said 'The kingdom of God does not come with observation; Nore will they say 'see here!' or 'see there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
He said the Kingdom of God is within man, that means all men, even the worst of us. This is the Ancient Roman Empire we're talking about. Do you think that was radical?

How about the rest? Yes, Jesus was very radical and I don't trust that the more radical sayings of Jesus have been edited or withheld from scripture. I think the Bible has been changed and that much has been lost in translation. It is also important to understand Roman culture when interpreting the Bible.

It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.
— Matthew 20:26-28

"Judge not, that you be not judged" Mathew 7:1

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgement' "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement" Mathew 5:21-22 All of the Sermon on the mountain Mathew Ch. 5-8 is very radical especially to Roman culture.

Yes, these ideas were mind blowing in the time that Jesus lived, so radical He was killed for them. He also never got married, had no money and very little possessions, and was homeless. Very radical for the time. Jesus goes in the temple and starts raising hell and flipping tables in the Temple in Mathew 21:12-13 Mark 11:15-18 and John 2:13-22. The Temple incident was so radical it was mentioned in 3 of the Gospels.

Do you still think Jesus wasn't radical?

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Too?

Those verses, nor any other verses, were ever “shoved down my throat”.

You can take the bible and twist it to mean anything you want. However, when you approach it honestly, to let it speak naturally you can come to no other conclusion than the one I am suggesting. To do so is to fly in the face of thousands of year of clear understanding and teaching. I could quote several other scriptures to further prove this point. However, given your tone, and self professed private interpretation of the scriptures, it would be an exercise in futility.

Luke 17:21 is Christ answering the faithless pharisees. Not the Romans. He was speaking to his own, who received him not. In verse 22 he begins speaking to his disciples, not Romans, about the literal seconding coming of Christ and his earthly reign, the Kingdom of God. To read more into this then is there is to add to God’s word and is intellectually dishonest.

To your last point. Do you think God is so limited he can’t preserved his word for the world he loves? He can create the universe an all that is therein yet cannot keep 66 books intact? I think it is too often forgotten when discussing such subjects that we neglect the fact that the subject is at it’s core, God. An immense topic.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

No.7's picture

Didn't you just contradict yourself

So "to read more into this then is there is to add to God's word and is intellectually dishonest" but you're saying you know exactly who Jesus is talking to in Luke and exactly what he meant..... I would argue that all of them were Romans, the Pharisees were Romans. They lived in the Roman Empire.

I believe the Bible can be twisted around and has been altered or meaning as been lost in translation. If God would stop man from changing his Word then why didn't he stop 9/11 or Sandy Hook? Mohammed said Christians corrupted the word of God, that's why many Muslims believe the Quran should only be spoken in Arabic and never translated.

I'm more of a Deist, I believe in God but I don't believe He interferes with Earth often. However I do think he does intervene at times. The Lord works in mysterious ways. Like the watchmaker, God built the watch but He doesn't control the gears, but must repair them every once in a while.

I could also give you a lot more verses that show how radical Jesus was. How about washing the woman's feet? How about acquitting the adulteress?

I in no way believe that Christ is the only way, nor to I believe that anyone deserves heaven. We are all sinners, Jesus made that clear in the sermon on the mount.

I live in the Bible belt, you have no idea how many times I've been told I'm going to hell for not going to church and not hating Muslims. I also think you're right that no one can be certain of the truth about God. I believe he exists, but I'm not certain. If I knew for a fact that God existed I would live a much better life and so would everyone else.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

I knew you would say that.

No, I didn't contradict my-self. I was correcting your assumption by pointing out what the bible CLEARLY reads. They were Jews being occupied by the Romans. They had every bit of their culture to themselves. I am saying it is clear to whom Jesus is speaking too. Do I have to quote it?

I am not even getting into the "what if's" and "why nots". You reject the doctrine of preservation.

Okay, okay, Jesus was a radical. He never washed a woman's feet. A woman, a harlot washed his. He washed his disciples feet. He acquitted an adulteress and at the same time condemned her accusers. What's your point?

You reject Christ as Saviour. You are a sinner like the rest of us. You will bare the punishment of your sin's and go to hell. That's very sad. All because you want to sound like a nice guy. Like Gahndi. It's very sad.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

No.7's picture

That's my main problem with Christians

That people think that simply "believing" will earn them heaven. I believe we can't earn it and I also think there's no way the 5 billion people will go to hell for being people of their culture but Americans won't for following their culture as well. It's crazy, no way Jesus is the only way in my opinion.

I also believe that very few people actually believe in God. We all want to believe, and have our ideas and opinions on God but how many really believe? I say I believe in God but my actions tell a different story. Are there any real Christians out there at all? Like I said, if I really believed I would be a different person.

If I'm going to hell I'll see all the self proclaimed Christians there too along with you. We might even be cellmates lol ;-)

Who knows, maybe this is hell and all the Christians got called up a long time ago....

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Your beef is with God and his Word.

Stop pinning your hang-ups on others.

Believing isn't earning anything.

Why did Jesus die on the cross?

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

No.7's picture

If my truth is true to me and your truth is true to you

but my truth says your truth is a lie, and your truth says my truth is a lie. Then what is the truth?

I don't know the truth, but I respect your opinion. I believe in the teachings of Christ, but I disagree that Jesus is the only path to God.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

My opinion means nothing.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

I am just telling you what Jesus taught. He taught the if he were lifted up, he would draw ALL men unto himself.

Again, your disagreement is not with me. It is with bible.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

More on Specialness

Only the SPECIAL will have enemies, for others are seen as different, and not the same. What is “different” calls for judgment, and this must come from someone “better”, someone incapable of being like what he condemns, above it, sinless by comparison with it. And thus does SPECIALNESS set apart and serve as grounds from which attack on those who seem beneath the special one is natural and just. The thing that makes you special is your enemy.

Comparison must be a device of the ego, for love makes no comparison. SPECIALNESS always makes comparisons. It is established by a lack seen in another, and maintained by searching for, and keeping clear in sight, all lacks it can perceive. This does it seek, and this it looks upon. And always whom it thus diminishes would be your brother, had you not chosen to make of him a tiny measure of your specialness instead.

Against the littleness you see in him, you stand as tall and stately, clean and honest, pure and unsullied, by comparison with what you see. Nor do you understand it is yourself that you diminish thus.