40 votes

What exactly is the Bible?

I'm writing this because in the last week, not just only DP, but I have had people argue for their beliefs of various topics, ranging from anarchy to minarchy, and more. But people keep telling me they hate Christians because Christians want and expect everyone to be slaves.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this so I wanted to clear something up.

I will say first I completely accept your beliefs, if you do not wish to accept Christianity that's fine, but I have to set something straight so people can stop hatemongering and spreading the wrong message.

The Bible is not a book of tyranny. it is not a book that says, "You WILL obey God." It says, "You should obey God."

Throughout the whole Bible, the message of Liberty is spread. It says that man was meant to rule, and not each other, but over the earth and be caretakers of it. Man is NOT meant to be slaves to any man, and definitely not slaves to God. Each man has his own free will to choose.

The Bible does ask for submission. However to submit is not to be enslaved, it is to willingly serve. You will find that serving others inspires others to serve you. All of the principles of Bill of Rights and dare I say, yes, the Declaration of Independence and natures law, can be directly pulled from the Bible.

I just wanted to clarify that, because many seem to think the Bible is the cause of war. I guess if that's true, than so is Liberty. Because liberty and freedom is exactly what the Bible teaches us to take part in. Just for the record, it also teaches us to stay out of entangling alliances.




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Opt out of what?

According to snakepit22, the stuff he is trying to opt out of does not exist? Have you heard the term crazy, snakepit22? Or are you just being your dishonest self?

That doesn't answer the question.

By now, we all know I don't believe. I'm not asking because I'm scared to go to hell or something. I'm simply debating this point. I want to know why you are okay with God ruling you like a king, but you are part of this liberty movement which shuns that sort of ideology. I'm simply asking you all to explain how that is consitent.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Yes

I am mortal, like you. God is immortal. How does a leaf stay alive? You are not on equal footing with God, snakepit22, so you are in error again.

Can a clay pot demand anything from the potter, it's creator? Where were you when the heavens were made? Can you bring the dead back to life?

Really, your questions are silly snakepit22. Grow up. Unless, you are five years old then your ignorance shall be tolerated.

Galt is good?

You mean John Galt? The creation of the atheist Ayn Rand? Just like your name is inconsistent with your beliefs, I'm simply trying to ask you to show me how your belief that I am not on equal footing with God, is somehow consistent with the idea of liberty. I'm not asking you to insult me because I dont' believe. I'm not trying to force my atheism on you. I simply want to know why you think it's okay for God to rule you. Your answer is that he created you, so he gets to rule you. That would be okay with me, if you had proof. You have more proof that your parents "created" you, so according to that creation theory, they have more authority to rule you than God. They have your birth certificate. They have witnesses (the doctor). They can prove they created you. So do they get to judge you, and kill you if they see fit? They are your creators, and according to you, you have no rights. You are at the mercy of your creator.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

the proof is...

you will die snakepit22 and God will abide forever.

The proof is the word of God, written thousands of years ago, is still being doubted by the ignorant people of today.

But to believe that you must believe in time? Is it linear or is it in the eye of the beholder? Do you have a problem with time, snakepit22? In your mind does that exist? Or is time just a fantasy of those who believe? I will assure you, in a thousand years from now, there will no remembrance of snakepit22.

I think the patrons on DP need to get to the bottom of your insanity, snakepit22.

Proofs eh?

Your first proof is that I "will" die, and God "will" abide. So your proof for me is something that hasn't happened yet. With time being real, and linear as you claim, how do you use something that hasn't happened yet as "proof"?

Your second proof is a book, written by men, thousands of years ago. Having said that, I can "prove" that every fairy tail ever written in a book is real, simply because the book exists.

I guess you and I just have different ideas of the definition of "proof".

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

But it has already happened. You were born and you will (blank)

Do you get older, snakepit22?

Ever closer to your date with the earth.
And yet, God's word has already survived thousands of years and will contnue.

Do you accept the fact you will die, snakepit22? Or is this open to interpretation?

I know, let's take a poll, how many people here at DP know snakepit22 will die someday?

And?

..I will die implies only that I will die. It doesn't prove that God will abide for eternity.
Plus..
The Illiad and the Odyssey have survived thousands of years, what is the difference?

I accept the likelyhood that I will die. I don't accept that me dying proves anything about God. If God came down and announced something every time a person dies, maybe I'd lend death some weight into this arguments. Howver, as far as we know, we will likely die, and there is nothing about it that reasonably proves the existence of God.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

What does your death prove, then?

Why do you care about a non-aggression principle, snakepit22?

According to you, if there is no God, there is no judgement. What fear of God do you have? Why not kill? God does not exist in the first place, right?

Are you going to tell me you fear the state more than the Creator? Are you a democrat?

What does my death prove?

That I'm no longer alive.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

like a leaf

Detached from the tree. You are alive, because God is alive. Your awareness or lack there of does not change this truth. You need to read more. Be like Dr. Paul.

Prove it.

Prove that I'm alive because God is alive. Show me.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

He's not your slave.

Prove it yourself. Or if you don't care to do that, then just ignore it.

It really doesn't matter if

It really doesn't matter if God is not libertarian enough to suit us, what matters is---is He real and is what He says true?

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

It's actually a history book

Of Egypt and the Pharaohs. Names changed.

Senator Peter Schiff 2016

Blaming the Bible for tyranny

Is like blaming a gun for murder

True but....

when someone does not see, they just do not see!

Only the Almighty can open ones blinded eyes and therefore we should pray for these dear people.

I too, once was blind, but now ( by the grace of God), I see!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Cyril's picture

What is the Bible? Also relevant: What exactly IS IN the Bible?

Wanna see and hear someone who, I think, has read and accepts the Bible's positive principles - with dignity?

Help yourself; fast forward at 4mins 20secs (first video link) :

http://www.dailypaul.com/272295/morningland-dairy-raw-milk-c...

[ shortcut : http://youtu.be/di_7aBLVn3Q ]

Still willing to judge the Bible in terms of abstract absolutes of the language or reason?

AFAIC, I stopped long ago, when I found Faith.

Spotting men of deception isn't so difficult. Caring about others' principles? Or concerned about those?

Start from looking at their RECORDS. And go from there, as you listen to what they have to say:

http://www.youtu.be/qOgg0LdgTD0

'Hope this helps. It works for me.

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

1000s of religions in the

1000s of religions in the world, and you believe that only yours is right? That non believers go to hell? The bible clearly states that. There's no other way to 'interpret' it. I was a Christian once too, at the same time that I was a socialist liberal. Then discovering the lies I had been told led me to be an Agnostic, which helped me open my mind and turn me into a libertarian.
Have your religion, fine. It's still a free country. But I believe that freedom of religion is so essential because it will lead us to a better understanding that religions are false and that science is the way to go.
Pardon my opinion.

"Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." - Benjamin Franklin

If we are using logic in this discussion

Then it seems to me that 1000s of religions all claiming exclusive beliefs can't all be right.

But luckily the beauty of liberty is that we are free to believe and act as we chose so long as it does not infringe on the liberty of others. The liberty to believe and follow a faith is as important as the liberty to not follow any faith.

Ron Paul - Intellectual hero

No need

to pardon your opinion. You rightful deserve to have it! I believe in freedom of religion and freedom from religion. I will fight for that with all that I am, even though I am committed Christian with every fiber of my being. Fight for my freedom and I will fight for yours. We CAN live together peacefully. May your views and side never be a tyranny to mine, and vice versa.

"Be a listener only, keep within yourself, and endeavor to establish with yourself the habit of silence, especially on politics." -Thomas Jefferson

I agree with you for the most part about religions. However,...

atheism is the least rational belief system I have studied. Can you really believe a 3 1/4 pound "meat computer," given the "right" environment, will produce a Van Gogh, Da Vinci, Michaelangelo or Mozart? Where, exactly do ideas originate?

The most generally accepted theory in physics is, arguably, quantum theory. Yet, the essence of quantum theory is that "matter" exists in the form of "virtual particles" until it is observed. Now, who was the "original" observer? Interestingly, "virtual particles" are called "Ku" in Buddhism and "the mind of Gd" in the Khaballah. I suppose, they would also be called "The Force" in "Star Wars".

Check out Gnostic Christianity. I have found it to provide the best explanations of"what is so." http://www.gnosticchristianity.com/

By the way, if you are familiar with the movie "Forbidden Planet" or the "Q" character from "Star Trek: The Next Generation," you can better understand the concept of "willing" virtually anything into existence as long as you have enough energy.

Want to know what sets all the religions apart?

I was different, I started in science and found Christianity, there is far to much that simply could not happen by chance. I won't get into it, but I studied ecosystems for years.

I noticed something that made it stand out, Christianity is the only religion that does not require some types of work, being good, or improvement to enter 'paradise'. In fact, in order to be saved in Christianity, you first have to recognize you are not perfect, and simply believe. If you are perfect, you cannot be saved in Christianity.

Thank you

for bringing up this distinction. Unfortunately there is a huge segment of Christianity that would disagree with you, that believes salvation is attained by works. But the Christianity of the Bible is one where salvation comes as a an unearned gift.

"Be a listener only, keep within yourself, and endeavor to establish with yourself the habit of silence, especially on politics." -Thomas Jefferson

Just another worn out load of shit

A bunch of power hungry rich people who found a way to band a bunch of people that could not of known better into believing in the one thing that nobody can disprove, but don't worry about dying we all reincarnate anyways, stand up for whats right.

You just got PAULED!

Actually It Is Possible To Disprove Christianity

The following could be termed a SMOKING CANNON showing that Christianity was INVENTED by the Romans as a political tool to control the masses of the day, and it is still being used this way today, and that Jesus was only a mortal man who happened to be one of the Roman elite's (which also explains why the first Christian pope and earliest saints were all members of the Flavius Caesar ruling family):

"Caesar's Messiah, The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus" by internationally known and best-selling Bible scholar Joseph Atwill [perhaps the most AMAZING and disorienting hour a Christian will ever experience]
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuqwmMpV2oo

The above was taken from the article "Sowing The Seeds For A Peace Revolution"
- http://www.dailypaul.com/241312/sowing-the-seeds-for-a-peace...

"Holy S___!"

"Fascinating stuff!"

"cool read"

Are you talking about the Fed?

Sounds like it.

I know what you mean!

(I just posted this reply on another thread, but think I meant to post i here! It actually fit perfect both places!)

I've always been somewhat bewildered by the interpretation of God as a totalitarian. To me, when I study the Bible God is the ultimate libertarian. He gives us the freedom to choose what is good and reject what is bad, or not.

It's almost a year since I first heard of Ron Paul, and what a year it has been for rocking my view of the world and reality!! I hadn't the slightest idea things were the way they are. It felt like a personal blow to me each time a victory was robbed from our delegates, each time it was lied about in the media, etc. But have you ever had that moment when something you've known all along and thought you understood suddenly just clicks, and takes on a whole new dimention? It's nothing new, but at the same time it is because suddenly you understand?

That moment came to me once on the DP when someone posted this link:http://www.activistpost.com/2012/08/8-rules-to-defeat-tyranny.html I read it, and it occurred to me: the evil that caused thug-cops to throw our (my impression of) soft-spoken, wise, elderly delegate with a bad hip onto the floor, the evil that is the banking system and polititians together robbing the people, the evil that is the lies of the media...(list goes on) That is the EXACT same evil that I vote for or against on a personal level, every day, every moment. And as strong as its presence is in the world, it will never be strong enough to confiscate my thoughts, my heart and soul,
unless I let it. And I won't. I choose liberty! And as long as I do, and you do, and as many people as we can influence in a positive way do, we win. The other side has already lost the war. (And I hope will also lose the battle against our U.S. Constitution!)

So thanks to the DP for being an unlikely catalyst for making me a better Christian! I find the diversity of everyone here refreshing and stimulating, whatever your personal faith or un-faith is. As long as you consider yourself a libertarian you are my brother/sister in faith at some level.

The Bible was written by men

for a people who seek absolute-protection; while living (though they accept that "God's way" is mysterious so the "protection-seeking" is not as strong here) and most importantly against after-death annihilation.

The Bible is a book of "codes of conduct" wrapped in absolutist language (otherwise people would not follow it).

There are certain tenants you MUST believe to "follow" Christ-of-the-Bible and the Book itself: 1) That you have a Soul, 2) That there is a Super-Soul out-of-which all other things (animate and inanimate) came out of, 3) That this Super-Soul judges the thoughts of men (awake and asleep), judges the sexual positions and to whom he/she has sex with, and all other common interactions, 4) That if you do not "believe" in him (whether you've heard of him or not) you go to hell forever and ever, and 5) If you break any of his commandments without apologizing you also go to hell even if you've been saved previously.

God "apparently" destroyed most of the planet -- all peoples and all animals, save for two of each species and a single genetic family group (out of which the rest of us were born *severely flawed logic*) all because there was a majority of people "be acting crazy" (living in sin) -- so he killed 99% of them, to start over.

God is keen on plagues, as a form of punishment; but if you smear blood on your door the plague does not enter -- maybe the plague eats the rotting blood, gets full, and goes hang out by the pool?

Slavery (how to guide) was allowed -- Rape was allowed (in special circumstances) -- Stoning allowed -- Sacrifice of ones off-spring -- Genital Mutilation.

God's love is so great; he killed his own son, to save the rest of us (are we his children?) -- so he killed our brother? Thou shall not kill, less you are the one throwing the party.

I am a bit of a Deist -- I talk to myself and pray to a higher self in times of stress; it works for me. But I refuse to define God in Christian terms -- I find it repulsive.

I do find great joy in meditation, conscious-sleep, and energization exercises -- if "magnetizing" my spine with awareness and the resultant joy that comes IS God then great -- if it is a highway to God, then great. If it's just me "playing" with a more subtle version of self, then great.

I'm cool with dying and the lights go out forever -- I've passed out before (lost consciousness) -- not a big deal.

The thought of living forever at the whimsical pleasure of a cosmic dictator -- not so much a thought of peace, rather a thought of perpetual slavery and misery.

Submitting to my own bliss-nature -- fine!

Submitting to an entity that is not my self -- NOT!!!

Haha this is exactly why I started this thread

I read trough this whole thing, but none of this is accurate and sounds more like you heard all this hearsay. This is not what is in the Bible at all. I can see you have heard the stories, but even those don't seem accurate. The commandment part was not accurate either.

I'm not blaming you at all, I just wanted to point this out because its this rational that these things that spread the false message leading to people hating Christians. Everything you said is not true, sorry!