40 votes

What exactly is the Bible?

I'm writing this because in the last week, not just only DP, but I have had people argue for their beliefs of various topics, ranging from anarchy to minarchy, and more. But people keep telling me they hate Christians because Christians want and expect everyone to be slaves.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this so I wanted to clear something up.

I will say first I completely accept your beliefs, if you do not wish to accept Christianity that's fine, but I have to set something straight so people can stop hatemongering and spreading the wrong message.

The Bible is not a book of tyranny. it is not a book that says, "You WILL obey God." It says, "You should obey God."

Throughout the whole Bible, the message of Liberty is spread. It says that man was meant to rule, and not each other, but over the earth and be caretakers of it. Man is NOT meant to be slaves to any man, and definitely not slaves to God. Each man has his own free will to choose.

The Bible does ask for submission. However to submit is not to be enslaved, it is to willingly serve. You will find that serving others inspires others to serve you. All of the principles of Bill of Rights and dare I say, yes, the Declaration of Independence and natures law, can be directly pulled from the Bible.

I just wanted to clarify that, because many seem to think the Bible is the cause of war. I guess if that's true, than so is Liberty. Because liberty and freedom is exactly what the Bible teaches us to take part in. Just for the record, it also teaches us to stay out of entangling alliances.




Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

You keep saying God did something he didn't do.

Tell me where you find this " God ruled from heaven sending people to hell who didn't do what he asked, or who didnt' worship him"

I think you are bearing false witness by repeating something over and over that is false.

SteveMT's picture

May I interject a comment here.

Almighty God fried Sodom and Gomorrah, and He flooded the known world, in addition to all of the wars in which not a soul was left to breath. Israel was doing the Lord's work by slaughtering everyone, and they took no prisoners, except the 32,000 virgins by Moses.

By contrast, Jesus said to the prostitute "Go and sin no more." Jesus said we should forgive our brother "seventy times seven."
Jesus said "he who is without guilt, let him cast the first stone."

In a way, these two are like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

The Holy Ghost was a lot like God the Father, slaying the first born of Egypt without mercy or a second thought during Passover.

Exactly.

If I beleived in Jesus, I'd think he was the greatest person who ever lived, but just as you've said, Jesus and God, according to the bible, are so different it is like hard to believe they would be the same being. Jesus is the most forgiving person imaginable, and God is the most ruthless. The difference, in my mind, is easily attributed to the fact that the stories are fictional, written in different times, and for different reasons. If Christians just followed Jesus, I really would have no beef with the concept, except that I just don't believe it. However, because they believe in the God of the old Testement, I continue to wonder how they still think liberty is even congruent with Christianity. Nothing about God's rule over us is libertarian.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

snakepit22,

What should God do with the mocker/hypocrite such as yourself?

Ron Paul is dumb?

Where did I say anything like that? I can't disagree with Ron without you claiming I called him dumb? I just don't think the religion is compatable with the idea of liberty, at least not as I see the religion. God is aggressive, he punishes if you don't follow his rules. You don't have the opportunity to sign a voluntary contract to live by his system. If you don't live by him, he punishes you. That is aggression, and certainly not voluntary. I didn't call Ron dumb, but I certainly disagree with him on Chrisianity. Firstly I don't believe in God, and secondly, if the God of the bible is real, and the bible is true, then that God doesn't appear to believe in non aggression. He is the most aggressive being in the universe.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Right here...

You wrote:

"Ron Paul is Christian. He seems so intelligent in so many areas, but the belief in the God of the bible just doesn't have any logical basis. "

Ron Paul is not logical according to you.

Ron Paul loves God.

You wrote: "God has nothing to do with liberty."

Another false statement.

Where does it say that?

Do God's will and foster freedom, or their will be dire consequences.

No one listens to the Prophets.

Free includes debt-free!

Jude 1:7

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

It wasn't eternal.

I think you need to reread. It was so instantaneous, at least according to the bible, people were turned to salt pillars.

Deuteronomy 27 47-48

Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Romans 2 6-8

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Who doesn't have righteous wrath against the criminals in government?

One doesn't need the bible to know when they are being swindled.

But they can read old stories and see that this is an old, old story.

Free includes debt-free!

You are free to do whatever you will

"Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of THINE heart, and in the sight of THINE eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment." ~ Ecclesiastes 11:9 ~
( emphasis added )

All are free to do their "own thing" while here on earth but alas, it will come to an end one day soon, and the day of judgment will then be realized, and for the vast majority, it will be too late, for when they had the breath of life in them, they chose to their own demise, to go in the ways of the world and away from the One who alone can save.

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

Depends

Most of the bible I consider the Hebrew Book of Folklore. I only ever listen to the wisdom of matthew, mark, luke, and john where the lessons of Jesus are written. I dont like nor trust Paul, the supposed writer of the rest of the new testament. Im much happier with Buddhism regardless.

Cyril's picture

Goodness... this thread...

Goodness... this thread...

Interesting.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

The Bible is not Jewish

Judaism is properly "Babylonian Talmudic Phariseeism" being the religion of Paganism which the Edomites (Esau's descendants) practiced when they migrated into Judea about 300BC, and is the religion which they established in the Jerusalem Temple after they took control of the city and all Judea under their Edomite Herod leadership. The ancient Hebrew religion was converted into this religion of Satan worship which came to be known as Judaism. Yes, the Pagan religion was worship of Satan as their true lord; it was the worship of Semiramis and Baal, and of lamenting the death of Tammuz. Knowledgeable jews know the truth about their worship, but Christians naively believe the Jewish deception. Remember that Jesus went to the temple and told the Edomites that God was not their father, but that they were from the devil. Jesus wasn't talking to Israelites there, but to Edomite Jews. There is a secret world which the Jewish media has always been able to keep hidden

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

Question.

Wasn't Jesus jewish?

This is really interesting.

Can you tell me where you got your PhD in Jewish Studies from? Brandeis? Tufts?

I always thought that the

I always thought that the bible was pretty much the Jewish people's mein kampe.

Just want to point out

You say "The Bible does ask for submission. However to submit is not to be enslaved, it is to willingly serve."

However, that's a lot like when the government gives us the illusion of choice when really the only other option is in the barrel of a gun or prison. Well with religion it's like "You should submit to him, but you're not forced to. You can always just go with eternal damnation."

I definitely agree with the premise of your post though. I respect true Christians (as opposed to hypocrites, CINO's if you will) and don't like seeing the hate and mocking you are referring to. In fact, I'm reassessing my own beliefs (or lack thereof as I am agnostic) and may go back to Christianity, thanks in part to this: http://www.dailypaul.com/272282/who-left-this-guy-speak-at-t....

The New Testament

Is hardly a mystery, it is self-explanatory. Anyone who would justify killing in the name of this book is not religious in any context of the book.

The Old Testament was written most likely by Mosis, or Moses and is a mish-mash of Hebrew oral history from an Egyptian perspective, dominated by an Egyptian writing style. This is not surprising considering where Mosis spent his formative years and his place of education.

The first law of the Old Testament is 'thou shalt not kill'.

There is no asterix, no 'except when', no 'unless'. It is pretty darn explicit.

The fault of the Bible is in man, many of which interpret in slanted ways to justify whatever their sordid action may be, be it on an individual level or a state level.

It's ironic that our country still uses the Ten Commandments as a foundation of individual law, yet the state considers itself above that law.

SteveMT's picture

Obama "considers [him]-self above that law," also

Obama orders executions, and he orders all of the drone strikes. We are still in the days of the Manifest Destiny. The government is killing people with the belief that they are doing the Lord's work, so it would seem. Like Israel was slaughtering men, women, and children in the Old Testament believing that they were doing the work of the Lord. Anyone who believes that they are doing the Lord's work by killing someone is of the devil no doubt.

It is rabbis, priests, and politicians

Who consider themselves so 'godlike' and self important that they place themselves above the word of G_d

Whatever the Bible is....

Whatever the Bible is in its original purpose, composition, authenticity, and inspiration, it has since constituted a veritable playground for the cognitive miser. Millions who have neither the time, the inclination, nor the facility for keeping track of massive amounts of data, are quite inclined to tell us boldly what "the Bible says", as if such is never in question.

Many assure us that the Bible is "easy to understand", that "it says what it means and it means what it says". They, of course, can scarcely answer, then, why there is so much confusion afoot as to its meaning and application today. They may try to pass it off as the confusion of those who are not "true" Christians, yet they have never ventured far enough in search of a definition of the word Christian as to discover that no such definition exists in the pages of the Bible.

For them, the Bible is "simple" because they do not think about it---or at least not about ALL of it.

Millions abuse the Bible, using it to justify all manner of things it did not originally justify. Meanwhile, millions more draw negative conclusions about the Bible, not from studying the documents that comprise it, but from witnessing the irrationality of millions of Bible fans who do not seem to be able to get a firm grasp on reality.

They split up into camps of various kinds---most of which would never exist if all people gave comprehensive thought to such matters. They leave one camp for another, having "proven" the latter to be the better one, but will stop investigating at that point, scarcely maintaining the same zeal for improvement that prompted the move. Even those who discount the Bible normally do so with much too little thought and investigation. Like the believers whom they despise, they draw erroneous conclusions. There is very little difference between them in this regard.

One man wants to blame his woes on the Bible, and another on Christianity. Yet another wants to blame the government and someone else on a godless society. Few, however---very few---have any basis of sound work from which to be able to draw sound conclusions about what "the Bible says". Indeed, they do not even figure out that "The Bible" is a manufactured title for a collection of documents that is merely IMAGINED to be the God-prescribed canon. "The Bible", however, is silent on this question. And it holds no God-ordained table of contents.

The grand irony in all this, then, is that fans of the Bible have no more clue whether it--or any particular part of it---is from God than atheists have that it is not. Cognitive misers thrive on "either" side in this field of debate and are prone to make ill-supported assumptions routinely. Meanwhile, churches and lecture halls alike thrive on the regrettable fact that hardly an adherent is interested in anything more certain than hearsay. So they continue to churn out their one-liners and their adherents continue to repeat them as if they themselves know something.

The Bible is a fascinating collection. To date, however, I have never met anyone who thinks he understands it all, more or less, who is not also self-deceived. Indeed, the Bible raises more questions than it answers about the topics it addresses. Yet the Christians never seem to notice. This is because they are generally incurious, and are taught to be thus at church, just as the science students in the lecture hall are also taught to be incurious.

True

But you expect too much from believers. They, too, confuse belief with knowledge. Not all folks can use rational thinking to ease their mental anxiety, especially if parents and school do not teach rational thinking.

Expecting too much from Christians?

Liberty, you wrote:

But you expect too much from believers. They, too, confuse belief with knowledge. Not all folks can use rational thinking to ease their mental anxiety, especially if parents and school do not teach rational thinking.

Do I expect more than God does?

Are not honesty and reality central themes in the Bible documents? Is not the conversion from falsehood to truth also a fundamental theme? Is not the correction of error and the gathering of knowledge a theme that is repeated over and over? Aren't wisdom, prudence, and self control major paradigms throughout?

Indeed, the Bible aside, aren't these things observably necessary for healthy survival in NATURE? Reality-based thinking prompts one to escape the lion, and not to challenge it. Reality-based thinking prompts one to avoid the mushroom that killed his buddy, and not to eat of it himself. Reality-based thinking teaches one not to mess with the yellow jackets and that his friendships suffer when he treats his friends selfishly or dishonestly.

On this subject of rationality, nature and "The Bible" seem to be in remarkable agreement. And so does legitimate science. Scientists who want the truth do not waste their time with irrational pursuits because they know better....even atheist scientists.

All this goes to prove that there is no spiritual, superhuman power required for success in reality-based thinking. Rather, it is a simple matter of caring enough to go to the trouble to do it......that and installing a little bit of "mindware" required to get it right.

Millions report having "come to their senses" on some topic of life or another. They discover evidence contrary to one of their previously-held beliefs so they correct that belief accordingly. What is interesting is to see how people willingly do this with one issue, but not with another. Perhaps they'll jump with joy over having discovered a better laundry detergent, but will refuse to look for a better church. Or perhaps they'll tell you all about how they came to realize their old church was in error on some point, yet they refuse to investigate whether their NEW church might also be in error on some other point of doctrine or practice.

If I read the Bible correctly, however, God values the person who is honest and correctable through and through. I do not suppose, as do many, that it is ever acceptable to persist in an error after it has been proven. In my view, such behavior is immoral. It is against nature, against reality, against logic, against science, against pure religion, and against personal authenticity. People who do such things are corrupt people....corrupt of mind.

If this judgment of mine goes beyond the judgment of God, as demonstrated in the Bible, I'd sure like to know how.

Jack

The fun part is that

our Constitution deteriorated with the help of the mainstream church.

It is all about ideas. And only intellectuals, on average, generate and promote ideas. In 1776, there were only few local intellectuals in America. Those were people of enlightenment who believed in god, but not in the Bible per say or Trinity. In addition, leaders of local religious communities were against European mainstream church tyranny which they escaped.

During the late 19th century and the beginning of 20th two things occurred. 1) Public education created many intellectuals. 2) European immigration brought in the European mainstream churches. Both socialists and religious share the same morality - a) Utopia; b) blind belief; c) thinking based on feelings rather than reason; d) sacrifice of individual to a society or universal neighbor. Nazi slogan was the same - "the common good before the private good."

Author Unknown

"The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers.
Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter.
Here paradise is restored, heaven opened, and hell disclosed. The Lord Jesus Christ is its grand Object, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. Let it fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened in the judgment, and remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the highest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents." Author Unknown

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

Some bible quotes...

Some bible quotes...

-Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them agianst a rock. Psalm 137:9

-I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 timothy 2:12

-You may purchase slaves from amoung the foreigners who live amoung you. You may also purchase their children. You may treat them as your property. Leviticus 25:44

-Cursed be he who does the lords work remissily, cursed he who holds back his sorwd from blood. Jeremiah 48:10

-Show no mercy, have no pity! kill them all - old and young, girls women and little children Ezekiel 9:5

-When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought agian. Exodus 21:7

Tools of war are not always obvious. The worst weapon is an idea planted in the mind of man. Prejudices can kill, suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has an everlasting fallout all of its own.

Peace, Truth Seeking, and Better Material For Your Toolkit

Firefox,

You are sure to find some golden nuggets to add to your toolkit in the mid section of my article "Sowing The Seeds For A Peace Revolution"
- http://www.dailypaul.com/241312/sowing-the-seeds-for-a-peace...

Enjoy!