45 votes

Rand Paul...

Is he identical to his father? Of course not. Is he our best chance of putting a liberty minded candidate into the white house? Your damn straight he is. Now I know everyone has differing opinions of the man and that's understandable, but to go out of your way to demonize and shun the man is most definitely not the answer either. Now theres some people who look at Ron's support for Rand as something any father would do for their son, but that's also like saying that if Rands views were identical to say Bush or Barack that Ron wouldn't be a traitor for supporting him simply because it's his son. Now I ask you this... Do you think Ron would jeopardize the entire liberty movement by endorsing and helping his son if he were in fact a neocon just like the rest of the establishment republicans? I for one would like to give Dr. Paul much more credit than that, I mean he's the godfather of liberty for christ sakes. I said this in a comment to another post but I think we should trust in Ron that his son Rand is on our side rather than throw away the only chance we have at the moment of taking over the GOP or all of America for that matter.

Both Ron and his son realize that in order to take libertarianism to the mainstream we must change things from within. He's one of the only people we have that can actually make it. Just because he supports Israel does not mean he's their puppet. Rand is the trojan horse we've needed to take our movement to the next level. We can't all agree with one another on everything, hell even Gary Johnson for example has many views that differ from Ron Paul. I'd still rather have someone like Rand in office who supports Israel but is still fighting things like the NDAA, TSA, Patriot Act and supporting other constitutional principles such as the 2nd amendment over all our other options. If you take a hard look at what Rand is doing the only reason he went to Israel was to gain support from groups that are necessary to win the presidency. He may be saying that he wants to gradually end foreign aid but at least he actually wants to end it unlike all our other options. Even Ron Paul had to tone down his ideas of ending the FED by compromising and saying he only wanted to audit the FED. I know we're all unwavering in our beliefs and that's good thing but at the same time I think we all need to look at the bigger picture here... thats just my opinion.

In Liberty,
LW

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Ron and Rand are two very

Ron and Rand are two very different types of politicians with the same goal.

I'm thrilled MSM even gives him airtime

Rand is surprisingly solid and given a lot of air time for how evil the left is already trying to make him look. He's already gotten past most of the barriers that our good Doctor Ron Paul faced.

The difference between a politician and a statesman is that the statesman knows when to be flexible.

The...

...'Cult of Rand' lives on!

All hail Rand Paul!

Hint...

Any time there is the seeming necessity for someone to rationalize, justify, explain or clarify what someone says or does, into a 'liberty-positive' light, well...since it is not self-evident, it therefore is almost certainly either anathema, or faux.

It is what it is, albeit the 'CoR' Acolytes will refuse to acknowledge it in their wide-eyed, slack-jawed zealotry, as usual.

Oh those kooky Rand Paul

Oh those kooky Rand Paul supporters!

In Large Part...

...yep, kooky. More properly, a seeming restricted-assessment zealotry, devolving from the 'Paul' name.

Those who 'advance', seemingly zealously, Rand as the heir apparent of some mythical all encompassing 'liberty-torch', to be born in the name of all liberty advocates.

Yeah, that's kooky, to me and likely to others who choose to at least assess how he develops over time before climbing on the bandwagon.

Those who refuse or do not see the necessity to actually 'vet' this man's bona fides over time, particularly as it seems he is becoming pretty damn neocon establishment cozy.

Yeah, that is kooky to me.

Those who manufacture, or more properly they project, some high-level secret game of three-dimensional chess being played to lull the establishment into accepting him, then miraculously, Ol' Rand will become 'super-Paul', the mild mannered yet unwavering 'liberty movement' super-hero.

Yeah, that is kooky to me.

Those who believe that the GOP establishment would deign to accept anything more than a token-libertarian into the fold (with, of course, required allegiance to the overall GOP globalist-collectivist goals).

Yeah, that's kooky to me. And seems much more likely designed to lull the liberty-movement's 'faithful drones' (that is you kooky guys, just so you know) into at least marginal GOP support.

Those who, I assess, naively 'hope' that Ol' Rand will 'change' ('hope & change' sound familiar?) the GOP globalist-collectivist establishment from within, in the face of decades of contrary evidence that the GOP is united and committed to what we see them consistently do.

Yeah that is also kooky, to me.

Those who seem to be looking for 'a man' in government to follow, rather than grimly getting down to the torturous task of standing unwaveringly on individual liberty principle and unwavering constitutional-limitations on government and subsequently attempting a ground-up mindset change of the people.

I could go on, but why bother.

Yeah, a goodly sample of Rand Paul supporters seem to be crazy as a schite-house rat, ala what we see so often in any 'person's' zealous supporters, ala Obama, Romney, Palin, Paul and on and on and on.

Yep, kooky, disturbing AND incredibly illustrative.

I think it is absurd to call

I think it is absurd to call your fellow friends of liberty "kooky". This sort of mud slinging is a problem in the liberty movement.

I am certain most people who participate in this forum are intelligent individuals who have good reasons to beleive what they beleive...wether you agree with them or not does not make you supreme.

I've devoted a great deal of time to this movement. I campaigned for Ron Paul, i was a county coordinator, I am active in my local GOP and show up to the meetings, I am a delegate, i am now a part of a local conservative think tank and a local republican support group. i have taken every avenue i can to represent.

Like most of us here, I read, research, evaluate, and decide. I am NOT "kooky". You my friend need to reevaluate your stance.

LOL

...it does sound like that, doesn't it? Maybe this fellow was previously employed as an anti-Ron troll and he's just recycling his material.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

No

The only reason we're clarifying what Rand is doing, is because people like you are apparently too slow to get it.

I support Rand for what he does, not who he is. Trying to label me a "zealot" only betrays your blind hatred and accompanying ignorance.

The Reason...

...you and so many others are 'clarifying' is because you feel the need to put a clean liberty-face on certain things that appear otherwise.

In addition, your use of the term 'ignorance' is pretty funny, for a multitude of reasons that I am certain are obvious to anyone not a CoR Acolyte.

Suffice it to say, that a thinking man would not be so quick to advance a 'Prince Rand' as the 'Candidate of Liberty' just yet. That thinking man would watch, counter the zealotry, and see what develops over a period of time.

Perhaps it is that you and the other 'CoR Acolytes' are not such 'thinking men', at least it appears not from where I stand, on the rock of unwavering principle.

And so it goes...

Agree to disagree

And I apologize for calling you ignorant. I believe Rand Paul has the potential to become the next big "champion of liberty" so to speak.

So far his actions against the NDAA, drone wars, the federal reserve, and the TSA - are what indicate this. I judge him by his actions not his words. But of course, only time will tell.

Understood

No problem with me and no need to apologize.

Also, do not take personal the tactics that I choose to use.

I am firmly convinced that presenting blunt, no-bullschite assessments and then illustrating that against what is commonly accepted, is necessary to cut through elements of the current paradigm.

I also love a good back-and-forth with a bit o' scathing commentary, sometime-sarcasm and often scathing wit, to accompany what I do.

the only 3 Men I would vote

the only 3 Men I would vote for to be POTUS are Judge Napolitano, Chuck Baldwin and Rand Paul. In that Order. I would be happy to have any of the 3.

Rand isn't toning anything down.

He is playing party politics and selling the message of liberty all at the same time.

He is slowly turning mainstream Republicans into liberty minded, constitution thumping, Ron Paul Republicans.

More power to Rand. He is doing an awesome job of bringing Americans together from across all various political spectrums.

.

Freedom by way of deception!

Lying for Liberty!

*barf*

.
~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

How has Rand deceived you?

How has Rand deceived you?

cmon...

Id do alot more than lie for Liberty if it meant we win.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

lying is the

problem.

"Quit lying and shut up forever"
william burroughs on politicians

This reminds...

me of V for Vendetta when V makes the point that sometimes a lie is the only way to tell the truth. But then again some would say to just shut up it's only a movie ;)

LIVE FREE OR DIE

Amazing movie

I just watched that movie again the other day and it makes more and more sense each and every time. Sometimes one must lie in an attempt to tell the truth. I hope Rand realizes there are allot of people depending on him to do the right thing when the time comes. He must carry on his fathers legacy, he's the only one with the name recognition to do so at the moment unfortunately. Although it would be nice is the Judge or Jesse Ventura made a run for it!

Michael Nystrom's picture

Oh yay

Another really stimulating, intellectually challenging, substantive debate about Rand Paul.

It's Bushes fault...

It's Bushes fault... Wah

That's what it reminds me of.

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. - Matthew 10:16

I guess it will keep

I guess it will keep happening until all the propaganda stops. Which is never.

Seriously though, I thought this was one of the better debates of this sort.

Michael your Pats got

Michael your Pats got embarrassed dawg.

Ventura 2012

Michael Nystrom's picture

That's right B

It was a sad day. But it will be you who will be feeling the sadness come this Superbowl Sunday.

49ers all the way. I'm going back to the west coast, B. I do believe I've had enough.

;-)

But I'm with you on Ventura. You should update your sig to 2016.

I made this my sig after

I made this my sig after Super Tuesday 2008 and its just why bother changing it lol

Ventura 2012

& imagine

4 years of it ... zzzzzzz

Here is a thought..

Imagine if Ron runs as an independent and Rand runs for the Republican Nomination?

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

I wish our country wasn't so

I wish our country wasn't so far gone that most didn't have to choose b/w the lesser of two evils. I'd love to see Rand, Amash, Ron, GJ, the Judge, etc as the nominees debating on the National stage.

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. - Matthew 10:16

Have some faith

Understand some people are upset with Rand and criticism has its place. We can take Rand out of the liberty movement but we cannot take the liberty movement out of Rand. He was born into it, raised with it, and its in his blood. He has followed in his fathers footsteps his whole life, and calls Ron his hero. Have some faith and remember this is a chess match. Rand is in it to win it, and is reaching out to those w/ different ideas. Ron, on the other hand, wants to educate them & spread ideas. They differ in strategy, but the goal is the same. It's like good cop, bad cop. Sure, it's more fun watching Ron wake people up. But it's also fun watching Rand win the political chess match. But he needs our support w/ the criticism too. United we stand, divided we fall.

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. - Matthew 10:16

Rand committed

"political patricide" when he endorsed Romney. He did this near the time of the Texas state convention. This hurt the Ron Paul troops at that convention and subsequent conventions. It was a Bentonite move in concert with the RNC, Prince Reibus and the Romney camp. We fought all of them at Tampa. He is a sell out who serves his own belly and lusts for power. Exactly the wrong type to be POTUS.

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