45 votes

Rand Paul...

Is he identical to his father? Of course not. Is he our best chance of putting a liberty minded candidate into the white house? Your damn straight he is. Now I know everyone has differing opinions of the man and that's understandable, but to go out of your way to demonize and shun the man is most definitely not the answer either. Now theres some people who look at Ron's support for Rand as something any father would do for their son, but that's also like saying that if Rands views were identical to say Bush or Barack that Ron wouldn't be a traitor for supporting him simply because it's his son. Now I ask you this... Do you think Ron would jeopardize the entire liberty movement by endorsing and helping his son if he were in fact a neocon just like the rest of the establishment republicans? I for one would like to give Dr. Paul much more credit than that, I mean he's the godfather of liberty for christ sakes. I said this in a comment to another post but I think we should trust in Ron that his son Rand is on our side rather than throw away the only chance we have at the moment of taking over the GOP or all of America for that matter.

Both Ron and his son realize that in order to take libertarianism to the mainstream we must change things from within. He's one of the only people we have that can actually make it. Just because he supports Israel does not mean he's their puppet. Rand is the trojan horse we've needed to take our movement to the next level. We can't all agree with one another on everything, hell even Gary Johnson for example has many views that differ from Ron Paul. I'd still rather have someone like Rand in office who supports Israel but is still fighting things like the NDAA, TSA, Patriot Act and supporting other constitutional principles such as the 2nd amendment over all our other options. If you take a hard look at what Rand is doing the only reason he went to Israel was to gain support from groups that are necessary to win the presidency. He may be saying that he wants to gradually end foreign aid but at least he actually wants to end it unlike all our other options. Even Ron Paul had to tone down his ideas of ending the FED by compromising and saying he only wanted to audit the FED. I know we're all unwavering in our beliefs and that's good thing but at the same time I think we all need to look at the bigger picture here... thats just my opinion.

In Liberty,
LW



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to bad

voter fraud is rampant. So is Rand going to cheat to win? He might have to.

sss

ssss

Funny....

I'm an atheist, yet have said nothing ill towards Rand....

And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

Glad to hear! :) I certainly

Glad to hear! :) I certainly wasn't implying that *every* atheist on DP trashes Rand, but the majority are usually either anarchist, atheist or both, at least from all the posts I've read.

And as a non-atheist Rand supporter...

I have absolutely nothing against you guys. It's the other atheists on this site that are demonizing us for not agreeing 100% with their political views that has people so pissed off.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

oh the other atheists.

Well I'm agnostic and I kind of feel that way about Rand. I thinks its way to early for anyone to be carving their decisions or opinions regarding Rand in stone. He's got a couple crappy votes. But His record is far more acceptable then almost all of his co-congressmen and women. His recent Israel ass kissing is definitely annoying and certainly hurting him with Liberty Lovers

do you think he's going to win potus

without appealing to atheists or people with little faith?

why are you trying to push away atheists and anarchists?

freethink2012, I'm not trying

freethink2012, I'm not trying to push away atheists or anarchists. I want them to support Rand, and of course I want Rand to appeal to them. But my original comment wasn't about that... it was about how so many on this site are anarchists now and since *all* government is *all* evil according to them, they nitpick every single thing Rand does. That's an immature position and that they don't do this to Ron is a clear inconsistency on their part.

You just don't get it...

We never had intentions of pushing away atheists or anarchists but thats exactly what you guys are trying to do with people that aren't atheists and anarchists. I myself am no bible thumping christian I just believe in some sort of higher power or would at least like to think there is one. I also understand anarchists because I too have been set up screwed over by government. The difference is we are happy to have people of all beliefs join the liberty movement whereas all you Rand haters want us out. Just take a look at a recent thread about how the DP should kick out all Rand supporters. All we're doing is showing support for our candidate and your forcing us to defend ourselves when its absolutely not necessary.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

i don't even hate Rand.

seems like most of his hardcore support are paranoid delusional. he could do without you dragging him down. You do him nor yourself any favours.

Now do you see how his strategy is working...

He now has the people he needs on his side to woo over the majority of republican voters, and not only that but they are now all becoming much more opened minded to his style of fiscal conservatism. Just one year ago these media pundits would have written him off just like his father but he's saying the right things to the right people all while spreading the message of liberty at the exact same time. Ron went all out in his views knowing it would be a long shot for him to win the presidency. Talking about things like the Patriot Act or NDAA on Fox used to be a no no. Now that Rand has gained their support simply by showing his support for Israel, he now has a vessel in which he can spread his fathers message without receiving flak from the same people that would normally have dished it out to his father Ron. And no I'm no supporter of Zionism either but I am a supporter of the jewish people who have nothing to due with their tyrannical government. All you guys saying Rands just like the rest of them need to take a hard look at what your saying. Who else on the republican side is fighting against the NDAA, Patriot Act, foreign aid, war on drugs, or the TSA? Not very many, and absolutely none with the kind of spotlight Rands receiving. It's important to question everything but all I'm saying is give the man a chance before we throw away the one opportunity we have of putting a real conservative into the white house.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

Please link...

to where Ron even informally endorses Rand.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Rand isn't running for anything right now

So what is there to endorse?

Did you even read..

the forum post text? It and other comments make the claim that Ron endorses Rand. I'm just asking for empirical evidence...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Really? Short memory you have...

...Ron endorsed Rand and supported him big time when he was campaigning for his Senate seat: do I really need to dredge up the articles proving this since it's common knowledge? Now maybe you'll say "well that was only one time,' but there has only been one time! LOL. Ron's supported/endorsed Rand 100% of the time he's run for office so far in his career.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

I'm game...

Show me a single article where Ron endorses Rand. I will even accept Ron endorsing Rand for kindergarten class president or any kind of title going back to Rand's birth.

After you fail at that quest consider that the context of the current discussion is a future Rand run for president. I think you are fully aware of that but it doesn't suit your agenda so you are trying to see how much mileage you can twist out of it by weaving a little straw man. :)

Anyways, I awaiteth any sort of evidence of the "common knowledge" that Ron endorsed Rand for anything... ever...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

LOL

LAKE JACKSON, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--In response to reports that his son, Dr. Rand Paul, is being encouraged to run for Senate, Congressman Ron Paul issued the following statement.

“Should Senator Bunning decide to retire, I think it is important to have a conservative Republican and taxpayer advocate in the race.”

“I've always encouraged my children to participate in the public debate. Should Senator Bunning decide not to run, I think Rand would make a great US Senator.

“I, like Rand, have been impressed with Senator Bunning's opposition to the Bank Bailout. I think the Republican Party should be supportive of Senator Bunning and not try to push him out of office.

“Should Senator Bunning decide to retire, I think it is important to have a conservative Republican and taxpayer advocate in the race.”

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20090302006105/en/Cong...

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Okay..

you win my little challenge. You found an informal statement of support given prior to Rand entering the race. ;)

But that doesn't change the fact that the context of the discussion of this forum post is a future run for the president. And that Rand:

1) openly advocates for eliminating aid to Israel's enemies first while gradually withdrawing aid to Israel
2) openly advocates that the first step towards fiscal reform is to pay off interest to the criminal banksters at the FED and on Wall Street
3) Rand said on Fox News that his dad's supporters were crazy and were sending him death threats
4) Ron endorsed Ted Cruz (how'd that work out?)

which makes Rand very unRon-like and Rand will never get my vote or the vote of a majority of his dad's followers either because we judge the merits of each individual on their own and Rand just doesn't cut it. :)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

"you win my little challenge"

Indeed, and it wasn't that hard. Took about 2 minutes of googling. From this I conclude that you never actually checked to see if Ron endorsed Rand, you merely assume he didn't (who knows why).

Moving on to your other BS:

1) openly advocates for eliminating aid to Israel's enemies first while gradually withdrawing aid to Israel

Right, he openly advocates reducing foreign aid. Go Rand! I'm not pro-Israel, and I'm also not anti-Israel. I don't give a damn one way or the other about that f-ing sandbox. Let him cut aid to Pakistan first then Israel, or Israel first then Pakistan, or Taiwan first then Pakistan - don't care. I want cuts, period.

2) openly advocates that the first step towards fiscal reform is to pay off interest to the criminal banksters at the FED and on Wall Street

Firstly, the administration has been saying that anyone opposing an increase in the debt ceiling is risking default. This is a powerful rhetorical weapon to neuter opposition. Rand's bill prioritizing interest payments removes this rhetorical weapon from the hands of the administration - this is it's primary purpose. Secondly, it really is a terrible idea to default at the present moment. Under the current monetary/banking system, default will cause a major currency crisis, if not outright hyperinflation. Need I explain why that's undesirable? I'm in favor of default, but not before a return to the gold standard, otherwise it would be a disaster.

3) Rand said on Fox News that his dad's supporters were crazy and were sending him death threats

Some Paulites are crazy. And, judging by the anti-Rand psychosis evident in some posters here at the DP, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some deranged individuals sent Rand death threats. Are you claiming he made it up? On what evidence? Or you're just assuming again?

4) Ron endorsed Ted Cruz (how'd that work out?)

...I don't see your point.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

The lesser of two evils

The lesser of two evils is NEVER good enough to me.

How about the most qualified.

How about the most qualified. Does that work? Besides...everyone should be focused more on local elections.

good grief

i've never seen such denial, and have stopped visiting this site so often because of it. lew rockwell who is a good friend of the family & has known rand since he was a tyke has been avoiding the issue best he can, but enough is enough. if rand is the head of the liberty movement, then there is no liberty movement, period.
(you can only ignore so much, friend of the family or not. good on lew for allowing this post)

January 26, 2013
The Senator from Jerusalem
Posted by Becky Akers on January 26, 2013 05:55 AM
"'Well absolutely we stand with Israel,' [Sen. Rand Paul, R-KY]] said in an interview with Breitbart News, 'but what I think we should do is announce to the world – and I think it is pretty well known — that any attack on Israel will be treated as an attack on the United States.'"

So very sad. And how far the nut fell from the tree.

Like I said...

It's not so much that I trust Rand... It's more so that I trust Ron Paul. Do you seriously think Ron Paul would endorse and support a neocon or any neocon for that matter just because its his son? So lets put it this way, do you no longer trust Ron Paul because of his support for Rand? And don't say, "oh well its his son he has to support him" because thats just not true. Theres allot of things my own father disagrees with me on and just because I'm his son doesn't mean he'd back me up on anything I do, especially if it goes against everything he believes in. LIke I said, I'd like to give Ron Paul more credit than that. Rand has to play politics to win this thing and just because he has said some things that the media and jewish voters like hearing doesn't mean for a second he's going to be Israel's puppet. Whether you like it or not we need support from mainstream republicans in order to win this fight and Rand is playing his cards just as he should. After we saw what the media and establishment did to Ron how can we not learn from that? I challenge all of you to say those things you do about Rand to his own father and ask him why he's jeopardizing his entire lifes work just so his family can say, "whoop de doo my own son is president now!" as if that would even matter to Ron. What matters to Ron is that we change the direction of this country for better not the worse, no matter whether it's his own son or someone else that can make it. I guarantee you right now that with every misguided post Ron Paul has read on the DailyPaul about how his son is a wolf in sheep clothing makes him very upset to see how easy his supporters turn on liberty minded statesmen just because they don;t have the exact same views as himself. Why would Ron ruin not only his own but his entire families credibility by helping to put another "George Bush" as you would describe Rand, back into office. This just amazes me the lack of trust you so called Ron Paul "supporters" have in Rand just because he's doing an amazing job of winning over conservative media pundits across the country, which just so happens to be NECESSARY to win the presidency these days whether we like it or not. Once again, please look at the bigger picture. Soon enough you guys will be calling Ron Paul himself a traitor just because he isn't misguided as all of you have become.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

If Rand is the head of the liberty movement

the anarchist movement will need to find another vehicle. That's ok.

Frankly...

...I wish the rabidly anti-Rand people would depart, they can go support Jesse Ventura, Tom Woods, Gary Johnson, or the other loser du jour. I don't want to be part of the same movement as these retards. Yes, bring on the downvotes.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

This has never...

been about the anarchist movement although this is a big tent and we're happy to have you with us but in reality this is about the liberty movement. When jumping on the Ron Paul bandwagon did you seriously think we were all a bunch of anarchists? I sure hope not because Ron Paul himself isn't even an anarchist. Maybe you should start a site called the Daily Lew lol. Just so you understand there would be no bill of rights or constitution if we lived in Anarchy so I'm surprised your still here considering thats the document MOST of us on here hold dear.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

The search for the perfect

The search for the perfect candidate will not get go anywhere. Mean while...we lose more and more of our liberties everyday because people have not done what was asked...take control of your local party.

Ron Paul...

openly admires and politically united with anarchists such as Rothbard, Rockwell, et. al.. Tom Woods is an anarchist. Ron says Govt needs to be mostly replaced with self-reliance.

Maybe it's Rand and your kind that have less in common with Ron....

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Tom Woods...

Greaaaaat example lol... and you still don't even get the point. You guys hate Rand so much that you can't even tell when someone is on your side. You may not like Rand but we both love liberty and by us Rand fans trying to explain how libertarians can differ on certain issues without being absolutists does not make me a enemy of yours or any atheist for that matter. Ron Paul is a christian, does that mean he's out to get you too? Of course not. Liberty is about bringing people of all backgrounds together and your divisiveness in not helping the movement.

I started out...

being hopeful about Rand. Was kind of excited at the possibly of "succession" from Ron to Rand. I cheerfully took a wait-and-see attitude. Then:

1) Rand got on television and said his dad's followers were crazy kooks sending him death threats.
2) Shortly afterwards he endorsed Romney
3) Then he began becoming apologetic for neocons and zionists
4) Rand states that to get our fiscal house in order we should first pay the interest on the debt! Pay interest to the criminal counterfeiters who are responsible for the mortgage bubble, the 2008 crash, millions of people losing their homes, millions of old people with worthless derivatives secretly stuffed in their retirement account and funding all the DAMN WARS.
5) Kristol and Netanyahu are SPECIFICALLY delighted over Rand's plan to cut aid to Israel's enemies first and then LATER on sometimes begin to WEAN Israel from it's aid. Which is a net INCREASE in aid to Israel.

No thanks. Rand has EARNED my "hatred" (your words) of him.

You said:

"Ron Paul is a christian, does that mean he's out to get you too?"

What is up with the "rand-haters are atheists" meme? Is that some talking point from Benton that's being passed around?

I'm not an atheist. I am pro-life. I don't believe in evolution. My fave libertarians seem to be the christian ones. Chill out with the baseless and unstudied blind attempts at character smears. They are making you guys look even MORE like neocons.

I only believe in boldly speaking truth to power with no attempts at hiding any of my heartfelt beliefs and philosophies. Therefore, I cannot and will not support Rand's mind games and deception strategies. Besides, there is a strong possibility that Rand is not really fibbing! He just might be a zionist! (the jokes on you)

Say what you mean plainly and have the force of really believing in your message shine through. Only THAT will recruit the hearts and minds of the people. And only an awakening of a critical mass of the people will demand and cause Govt to change (and mostly go away). Political offices without the backing of the people is a fool's errand and a demonic trap...

Tom Woods 2016! :)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~