14 votes

Proud parent of an "aborted fetus"

There's a bumber sticker you will probably never see.

I believe abortion is probably the most touchy/difficult social issue out there. It is an issue that I personaly have had a hard time finding my stance on, but here it is.

I'm an atheist so I don't view this subject through the lense of "christian morality". For mostof my life I stood more on the side of "pro choice", but now after alot of thought,I as an individual am "pro life", because I've concluded that what this subject ultimately boils down to is personal responsibility. If you enjoy a sexually active lifestyle that's fine, that's your "choice". I think the responsible thing to do is to take the preventative measures of using some form of contraceptive. Now we all know contraceptives don't work 100% of the time, but you were aware of that and you were willing to take that risk,and it's time to own up. Your "choice" ultimately begins at being sexually active, so it seems very pompous to me when a women claims it's her right to choose. In the case of rape that's where you get sympathy from me, there is such things as the day after pill, but in the event of that failing, then I would say it's your right to choose an abortion.

even though I'm against abortion, I realize that the divide on this issue is so tremendous that I don't think it will be a good Idea to outlaw it. Like almost everything else that is prohibited,and illegal there will be a Black Market that arises, or just simply more events of post birth baby disposal. I think there is a good possibility that outlawing it will create much more herendous activity than the abortions themselves. Idk maybe I'm wrong, if any one would like to add or feel there's a flaw in my thoughts I would appreciate any thoughts that may differ.

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so atheists can't have a moral/ethical code equal to or greater than a theist?

i know plenty of atheists with greater moral conviction than others who profess a belief in a god. i know religious people with stronger moral fiber than some atheists.

it makes no difference. you don't have a monopoly on morality.

Of course atheists can have a moral code,

they just don't have any ultimate grounds for one.

ultimate grounds?

what do you mean?

are you saying an atheists morality is somehow illegitimate or inferior to a religious persons?

Cyril's picture

This caught my eye, too.

This caught my eye, too.

By "ultimate grounds" I think CarrotTop meant "definitive ones" (or "final", that everybody agrees upon - if only as, say, a "basis").

But we'll see his/her reply... ;)

(Christian here. Just lurking on atheists' thoughts once in a while. 'Hope they don't mind. :)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

first and foremost

we're all here for presumably the same reason.
if they mind, that's their issue.

what are your thoughts as a christian, if you don't mind?

is religion a prerequisite to morality or a workable frame work to that end?

Cyril's picture

Is religion a prerequisite to morality or a workable framework?

is religion a prerequisite to morality or a workable framework to that end?

Simple answer: no. Not a prerequisite. Not mandatory, anyway. It may help, or not at all. Refer to the various sorts of non-thinking bigots. Those are to be found in all religions, at some point, I suppose. It's usually people who don't want to be free, they prefer their cozy obedience and dependence (to someone or "something" - like the state/gov't).

Elaborated: I was an "atheist" before looking for, and finding faith. Or more exactly, I didn't care much whether or not that Christian thing and God would make any sense.

But I had solid basic moral grounds ALREADY. Credits go to my parents and the education they gave us.

Then I researched for myself, while having various life experiences - failures, successes, misfortunes, and blessings - like anybody else. That was decades ago.

Thus, faith (in Christ) will be with me till the end, now.

My views on Christianity and its purpose/benefits? I can cite many, but the best piece which sums it up is my favorite parable - The Wise and Foolish Builders - it's all about understanding what it means (the parable) and living it (thru our lives). That's what Christ brought me the most precious, I'd say.

As for Ron Paul, Liberty, and Constitution restoration, it's much more recent: found out about it 2 years ago only! (fresh immigrant here)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

i thought this was going to be

just another incendiary post with no substance.
thanks for putting some thought into it.

walter block has an interesting take on it in which he applies property rights and the advancement of science to make it irrelevant. (you can find it on youtube.) but that's a long, long ways off into the future and doesn't address the application of natural rights to sperm/egg or child.

i feel out of place as an atheist/ancap identifying with the pro-life argument. but i do. however, i certainly wouldn't be for erecting a government to outlaw it.

there seems to be a big gap in terms of natural rights and ancap theory here. which, i think is to be expected. in terms of societal organization, nothing has come close to being more complete. and this is the only area i've found even a remote issue.

it may be immoral - and i believe it to be - but i think the solution would be better reached on a voluntary/communal level. it's not perfect, but in terms of mitigating risk, seems most prudent. don't condone it. don't outlaw it. fix societies outlook.

thanks for the post and look forward to other peoples input.

State Law

Should decide abortion, period.

Some say it's about life, but what if life begins at birth? Why is that hard to believe? It's the pope who said conception was when life first became defined. Who's to say he's right?

I'm not making the argument one way or another, but abortion is one of those emotional issues full of absolutes. Thus, it is red meat for the insiders to manipulate the public and get us off other issues which significantly affect the lives of those of us who are really fully obviously, incontrovertibly alive.

The pope? Meh

From the time of conception, the child has it's own DNA as a separate and unique human being. He/She will never grow up to be a cat, dog, or rose. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html