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Meat and Dairy Cause Cancer (T. Colin Campbell)

Alarming speech by Dr. Campbell (the China Study), who actually grew up on a dairy farm himself but became a vegan after seeing the results from his own research: animal products and their link to cancer.

A practically lone voice crying in the wilderness, it seems, considering the popularity of the low carb diets and the high consumption of animal products in general. We (and I include myself as a cheese lover) only want to hear what we want to hear, but the truth always comes out sooner or later.


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Why is it nonsense?

It sounds like you have the science discrediting a paleo diet all locked up. Please share it with us. Obviously you have the clinical studies which back up your patent dismissal of "the latest fad diet", right?

You know, the "fad" diet which was around for tens of thousands of years, and was only recently replaced by the "proper" human diet consisting mostly of grains.

And even if you, as a vegetarian/vegan, avoid grains as well and stick to green vegetables etc. that is something we share. A typical paleo diet is 25%-30% meat and 70%-75% vegetables.

That niggling 25% is enough for you to call it nonsense? 75% of the time we are eating the same things that vegans eat. What is the big deal?

well maybe i'm doing

my own version since i've recently added wild salmon once per week to my diet. i will agree that the more plant based the better. nonsense was too harsh since i'm assuming there are variations as you say 25% or 30% perhaps others eat more meat? you may find this interesting:
magical, mythical protein:

magical, mythical

magical, mythical protein:

The good ol' protein strawman. The amount of protein needed to be healthy is quite modest, even for a genetically gifted bodybuilder. For example, gaining 5kg/year of lean muscle tissue amounts to only about 14g/day, which you can get from two or three eggs. Anectodally, the healthiest self proclaimed "vegan" I know regularly eats eggs from pastured chickens.

It's not protein one should be consuming more of. It's fat. Fat is where you'll find the high quality energy and fat soluable vitamins.

That is without a doubt 100%

That is without a doubt 100% crap. Not all of the protein you eat goes to building or repairing muscle. For a 200lb bodybuilder with 180lbs of lean muscle, the necessary requirement is ~180-200g protein per day.

Go ahead and try building muscle on 14g of protein a day. That's laughably dishonest.

Simple Facts and Plain Arguments
A common sense take on politics and current events.


"Necessary" is a strong word.

"Necessary" is a strong word. How much of it gets converted to lean tissue and how much gets converted to glucose by the liver? Any excess protein is deaminated into glucose by the liver resulting in ammonia waste product.

Example of moderate protein intake with body composition transformation: 90-110g daily, with DXA scans for body composition verification.

Why do so many vegan/veg people seem so bitter?

Why do so many vegan/veg people seem so bitter? Could it be something (missing) in their diet?

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.


I always thought it was liberals who resort to ad hominem attacks. But I was wrong. The Paleo/Atkins crowd has liberals beat by a mile. Just look at their comments on this thread.


by john pinette who is hella funny, and does many bits about food.

we all need to keep a sense of humor, and that means being able to laugh at ourselves too.

We made the tough decision

to forgo medical insurance, eating in restaurants, and some other things, so we could afford to eat nutritious food, and that includes meat - mostly from local people who raise their animals humanely. I totally understand that not everyone can afford to buy locally-raised and organic food. But as a former vegan, vegetarian, macrobiotic, fruitarian, etc., I would never advise anyone to forgo conventional meat completely. (and please don't tell me I didn't do those diets properly, because I did, thanks. :-)) Instead, I'd tell them to eat less fatty meat because the toxins settle mostly in the fat, and encourage them to find ways to eat local or grow their own food, or look for a cowshare program, or barter for local food.

I agree that the conditions that factory farmed animals live in are atrocious. Educate enough people to this horrible practice and maybe things will change for the better. I'm for letting the free market decide to put factory farming out of business by no longer supporting these monsters and moving toward support of local farmers/ranchers.

We choose to eat Paleo and we get much of our food from our local farmers. After too many years of suffering poor health, I can credit Mark Sisson's books for pointing me in the right direction. Trash him all you want because he makes money from his books and his products, but even so, they have helped a lot of people get healthy.

You are free to eat in any manner you see fit.

Accusing all meat eaters of violating liberty principles is painting with a very broad brush.

“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.”
― Albert Camus

Too many Libertarians...

...have fallen for the paleo/Atkins diet fad. As you probably know, it's on prominent websites such as Lew Rockwell. It's amazing how people who regard themselves as Libertarians have simply bought into that fallacy instead of following the money.

I notice that nobody can disagree with your comment about the inhumane treatment of farm animals, including dairy farm animals. Everyone who believes in God and His Word knows that God never intended for animals to be treated as they are; so it should be no wonder that the meat from them causes cancer.

Thank you for your comment.

If only more knew about the

inhumane treatment. The sometimes squalid conditions of animals, though only part of the problem, has consequences to human health. But it's the inhumanity that gets to me. I shop almost exclusively at an organic market and let them know I'm more concerned to find products certified for humane handling than for being organic. (For years I erroneously assumed organic farmers automatically held themselves to a higher standard. Not all do.) I hope the demand for such certification continues to increase.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir


First off dianhtab the reason I haven't disagreed with the comments about the inhumane treatment of lovestock is because those factories they speak of are living off government subsidies. As for anyone else not commenting on it I cannot say.

Speaking of which, does anyone here NOT know that the government involves itself in the agriculture business? I mean, we are in agreement about that correct?

And what do you get when such is the case? Crony Capitalism 101? Hello, telephones for you!


Being paleo led me to being libertarian

... not the other way around.

Once you learn that almost everything the government has told you about nutrition is wrong (and is actually making you sicker), you start questioning other government edicts which are supposedly "for our own good".

I take pains to get my meat from local farmers who treat their animals humanely. So that should be that complaint off the table.

Also, no clinical studies have shown that meat causes any kind of cancer. Plenty of observational studies which group pepperoni pizza, hot dogs, hamburgers and sausages as "red meat" claim to find a weak link between meat and cancer, but it's plain to see that all of those foods are eaten with a big dose of white bread. Of course, it can't be the refined wheat in the bread that causes cancer, for heaven sake our study was funded by the USDA! Let's blame the meat instead.

Follow the money yourself. In fact, recent clinical research has shown that natural animal fats and proteins are actually protective against heart disease and cancer.

Yeah, I feel like food and

Yeah, I feel like food and health is the last chance of getting people to rethink what the role of govt should be.

When your health improves, it becomes easier to appreciate that it's the only thing you really own. It's ones own birthright, and you start protecting it from robbed from you. There was a quote from Thoreau:

The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.

Health is where each individual can come to understand the concept of self sovereignty and food sovereignty.

I don't think any of the other ideological arguments has really work, mainly because of various fallacies of ambiguity. Anyway, watch for the real food, ancestral/paleo food movements to be labeled as dangerous radicals.

this is the best thing

i've heard about the primal diet: that it brought you to becoming a libertarian. i've come to the conclusion that as long as your eating plan is mostly plant based, you can get away with eating SOME of the questionable items. water, exercise, nutrition, balance, sunshine, a purpose/interest/spiritual sense, and air are also quite important. i was impressed with ben fuchs segment on the alex jones show that i watched here this morning. recommended to all.

I think eating herbivores

I think eating herbivores count as "mostly plant based."

plants are plants

animals regardless of what they eat are animals.

Are we able to process plant

Are we able to process plant energy as efficiently as ruminant herbivores? There's a reason ruminants have four stomachs.

i don't know

but it's not a plant. it is flesh & blood. what herbivores do you eat?

earlier someone posted that paleo diet consists of mostly plants 70 or even 80%

but it's not a plant. it is

but it's not a plant. it is flesh & blood. what herbivores do you eat?

Yeah, our digestive systems know how to handle flesh and blood. I try to stick to locally grown, grass fed cattle and pastured pork.

earlier someone posted that paleo diet consists of mostly plants 70 or even 80%

If you're interested in a plant heavy paleo diet, look at the Dr. Terry Wahls' Diet. She cured herself of MS.


i did see her TED talk, and that's where i learned the importance of iodine. i eat a plant based diet (cooked & raw vegetables, fruit), small amounts of grains like quinoa, and wild salmon once per week. it works for me.

i like dr. fuhrman's idea of G-bombs, slow burning poly nutrients: greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries & seeds.

...and wild salmon once per

...and wild salmon once per week. it works for me.

Wild salmon is native to your neck of the woods? Must be nice. :-)

The USDA recommends dairy

What does that tell you?

I don't know where you're getting your information from and I notice you haven't cited any studies, but it wouldn't surprise me if the studies you've seen that led you to that conclusion were funded by meat and/or dairy businesses.

I'd rather listen to researchers, such as Colin Campbell, who lose their government grants when they come out with conclusions that don't favor the monied interests of those on the USDA advisory board.

Hardcore paleo prohibits all dairy

So there goes your theory that it's all a big scam by the dairy industry. Who's left? The meat packers?

And lol about losing grants. Do you know how many scientists have lost tenure or grants because they went against the prevailing "grains are good" view? Far more than those who have told us that meat is bad, I'd wager.

You keep telling us to follow the money but refuse to follow it yourself.

The meat industry...

...is also on the USDA advisory board. Don't kid yourself -- the meat industry is a huge money-making business.

As far as grains, do you really think organic vegetable farmers have influence with the USDA? Not at all -- it's Big Agri that has that power. So, you see, I do follow the money.

dinahtab, sure, the meat

dinahtab, sure, the meat industry influences the USDA as does the dairy industry and for certain the GRAIN industry, especially corn. This is why the USDA recommendations include a higher number of servings of grain that anything else. Subsidies to the corn growers and the industries that process corn are probably the largest of all food subsidies.

So you give the grain growing part of Big Agri a pass because there are organic vegetable farmers? They have nothing to do with each other. That makes no sense at all.

Resist the temptation to feed the trolls.


Look at who sits on the USDA advisory board and see if you find ANY who are organic farmers.

Please don't confuse organic grain and vegetable farmers with Big Agri and their processed grains and toxic vegetables.

Are you kidding?

Monsanto practically runs the USDA, and the FDA. I'm sure I don't need to explain the relevance.

I said organic vegetable growers

Monsanto products are not organic by any means. You must know that, of course.