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Doug Wead & Ronnie Paul MLM Opportunity? W T F?

Is anyone else bothered by this email Doug Weed just sent out?

Doug Wead

I want to take a minute to let you know what I'm doing since the campaign. Ronnie Paul and I have started a new business venture together and a number of people in the Liberty Movement have already joined us as business partners. I'd like to offer you the opportunity to join us as well. We see this as an opportunity to earn an income while still having time to pursue our passions and our cause, as well as an ongoing way to support the Liberty Movement. I've always believed in multiple streams of income, and this is something you can do in addition to your current job if you choose. You would be working directly with Ronnie and me, and we would be excited for the opportunity to partner with you again. If you're interested in learning more, just respond to this email with a phone number where you can be reached and someone from my office will give you a call. There's some time urgency associated with this, so I hope to hear from you soon.


and btw Nystrom, wtf is up with this site changing my "wtf" in the title to "What?" you don't like what i type then don't print it....but changing it is bullshit

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This is creepy. Anyone considering getting involved with MLM, please look closely at some of the hard analysis of this sort of business model. The number don't add up because the marketing system is based on selling the "business opportunity" rather than a product. A franchise or retail operation deliberately limits the number of sales outlets for a given area and/or population. MLM companies are based on exponential growth of the "business opportunity."

"You've seen if you did nothing, you see a growing underneath you and that's like money in the bank. You have to personally put two people in yourself before you can start earning any money from it.... That's the most important thing... so you can start making money off the people who get in."

--from Wead's interview about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc4IrilmUP8

This is the classic tell of a pyramid scheme -- making money off of those you sign up rather than a product. If each person only signs up the two Wead considers necessary, within 24 iterations, there are more than 16 million sales reps just from your start.

In reality, such exponential growth cannot continue indefinitely. Eventually there comes a time when the market for the product -- both the shakes or whatever this company sells and new recruits -- can no longer sustain the growth. Of course this happens way before 24 tiers and 16 million sales reps. At some point in the progression, you are lying about this being any sort of "business opportunity." And if you understand the progression, you're lying about it from recruit number one.

Penn and Teller's Bullshit episode on MLM


Pyrmide scheems is the whole problem to start with its exactly what the matrix is designed as a pyramid. The most greedy at the top engorge themselves at the expense of those at the foundation.

Dougie you have lowered into the slime zone here.

First you round up a heard of CHattle then you exploite them. Motive = who gains the most. I have no problems with your gains. I have a problem of a flip from RP message of liberty to join me on a MLM and get rich.


A bit creepy.


Is Doug telling these poor Poles that if they do not join his scam than they are just hapless mud dwellers with loads of opportunity but ambitionless thugs for not joining Amway?

Here are some interesting Blogs that research MLM.


Did Doug join the 'Liberty Movement' because he saw a new highly ideology driven group (his old being the Christian Right) that has a cult-like fervor towards Ron Paul? Did he really see the light upon participating? Yes MLM is voluntary but upon review of the above Sites it has taken millions to the cleaners. It is highly deceptive. The high level figures are making most of their money from selling books, videos, and tickets to rallies. There is only a tiny few, less than one percent, that become as wealthy as promised.

I am just throwing this out there for discussion. I do not know what is up with Doug Wead. The more I learn the worse it gets though. I really like Doug Wead. I hate to think that he may be a scam.

Dateline program (Quixtar is Amway):

This is a false posting.

This is a false posting. It's an insult to Ron Paul, Doug Wead and the Daily Paul.

On MLM's and Pyramids

I did Amway for a while, when they were testing out putting it all online and called it Quixtar. They have some great products which I still purchase even though I haven't worked it as a business in many years. I don't regret that time in the least though. When I looked into the pyramid question before joining, I read about the past legal cases against Amway and found that the courts distinguished between legal MLM's and pyramids in three primary ways:

1) Do they sell a product/service which actually EXISTS right now?

2) Is the only/primary source of income in recruiting, or can you make money selling just the products and services offered.

3) Are there mandatory purchases of product each week/month/whatever? If so, do they buy back?

Anyhow, I don't know what might have changed by now since my research is quite old, but I'm guessing the concepts are still the exact same. No single one of these was mentioned as a dead ringer, even in the court case, but if two or all three are answered the wrong way, I wouldn't do it.


Me and "Ronnie"?

Did Ron Paul just invite me to an Amway meeting? Tell me it isn't true.

I call this kind of marketing 'girl scout cookies for adults'. A company will try and use you, even calling you "a partner", wanting you to hit up your friends and family to buy some crap product. It's a kind of "quilt marketing" used to leverage the love somebody has for you, getting them purchase something they'd never buy without YOU trying to sell it to them.

There's a very good reason girl scout cookies aren't on any supermarket shelf. They're crap. It's just a higher quality of crap than you'd expect from a guilt marketed product. It's hard to mess up cookies and soap...

I understand your comparison

But I happen to like girl scout cookies O_o

Why would we be bothered?

...I'm not seeing the problem.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

O.M.G. . . . so what???? The

O.M.G. . . . so what???? The man is allowed to make a buck any way he chooses.

I don't understand why liberty people who supposedly believe in a free market would lose their grip over someone marketing a product, or a business opportunity. That's what freedom is all about. If you don't want to participate, delete the email.

Blessings )o(

I'll tell you why, because

I'll tell you why, because it's unethical to use the contacts generated during campaign activities for personal gain. It's unseemly and a conflict of interest.

If a Democrat or Republican adversary did this exact same thing, people would be shitting bricks.

What's everyone's problem

What's everyone's problem with wead? The man has done nothing but helped us.

Helped Us?

I don't see how Wead has helped anyone but himself, and he continues to do so using his Liberty mailing list to work his MLM scam.

Even if you find that Wead has been helpful in the cause of liberty, that's no reason to support or even tolerate his MLM activities especially when he's trying to bring so many in the movement on board.

Gonna have to step in and DEFEND THE WEAD.

It's a loyalty thing. Never met Doug personally but him and Tom Woods are the Men In Suits in this movement I really not only trust and admire, they have always stood up for and included us of the Fringe Grass Roots. These guys are my heroes.

So we learn that Doug has made money through MLMs and he's deploying one on us now. I guess that makes us "friends and family" eh? Well BIG PHAT STINKING HAIRY DEAL. I wasn't popular with a certain peer group when I cut down trees for a living.

I alienate people every time I put on a SECURITY shirt and my duty belt for this movement. I alienate people when I tell them that making arrests used to be part of my routine duty. And I did both FOR MONEY. Given as the money wasn't that great but the fact remains I HAVE DONE THESE AND MANY MORE THINGS AND GOT PAID FOR IT. And not only that, with the movement I have done it for free.

I dunno, make up your own mind. Notice served that when people whom I consider to be my people are attacked I will respond. As an Oyate, ALL PEOPLE ARE MY PEOPLE BY DEFAULT. Until proven otherwise.

Fair warning.


P.S. Ron Paul is technically a "man in a suit" but he always manages to have that "I borrowed it from my cousin Bob" look to him. Or if not "thrift store" Ron's suits have always practically SCREAMED "I got it off the rack". You can tell he's much more comfortable in chinos and a polo shirt.

Most of those who think so actually don't and most of those who think sew actually rip.

Doug Wead Sells Hope

Listen to the interview at http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?401886-Doug-Wead... about 20 minutes in he starts talking about money and at 29mins he talks about how Amway sold hope and that "hope sells pretty well". That's the problem with MLM - all these fraudsters are doing is selling hope. In my mind they are no different from any other scamster who cons people out of their money.

The product is called

The product is called Isagenix. I bought some, I like it, it is a good program, the products are what you'd expect, and they have a good system all figured out both for people who want to use the supplaments and for people who want to make a business of it. I was more interested in a system to help me shed a few pounds, and so far I like it. I'm sure there are other, cheaper, and maybe better things out there. Well whatever, I picked this one ok? and so far I'm happy with it. I even liked the fact that several other liberty activists that I know are also using the product and promoting it. I already make a decent living, so I don't have lots of time to devote to it as a business, but who knows, if it works really well for me I might just promote it!

You can check out the business here: http://fiodax.isagenix.com/us/en/home.dhtml

Never liked (smokin) Weed from day one

so I am not at all shocked that he would take the names of those that he duped, and use it to make money.

Again, someone that laughs after almost every statement when they talk, is not a trustworthy person--- Enter Doug Wead.

As far as the OP POST to Michael:

"and btw Nystrom, wtf is up with this site changing my "wtf" in the title to "What?" you don't like what i type then don't print it....but changing it is bullshit"

What makes you think Mike changed your header? Before posting and pointing, be sure of the facts please.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Re: Changing titles

Yes, there is a filter that changes WTF to What? Jon created it. It will also TONE DOWN HEADLINES THAT ARE ALL CAPS AUTOMATICALLY.

Messing with that was a pain in the neck for moderators. So we had the computer automate it.

It is not like we have unlimited resources here, so we have to leverage technology as much as we can, and we're very lucky to have Jon here to help with that.

and No

I am not bothered by the email Doug Wead just sent out... I never provided the fraud with my email info, ergo I never received the email.

Everyone read what HonorGod just wrote here.

If you provided your contact info to him then it's on you. Internalize that.

Everyone wants to do polls. Polls that look independent but are in fact run by RNC consultants.

But "activists" pony right up and pony up their real names and addresses to participate and then they are individually targetted at state conventions and wonder why.

The only sucker are those who are naive.

Here We Go Again

We should rejoice those who promote the free market.

MLM is part of the free market. You cannot preach free market and then want to ban a free market product or producer when you do not like it.

As of fifteen years ago, I had spent several years thoroughly researching MLM for a book. I never finished the book because I did not think that there would be a market for it.

But I learned a lot.

From my viewpoint, MLM is an inefficient method of marketing. By structure, products marketed through MLM have to be higher priced than those marketed through mass retail or some types of mailorder distribution. In order to make money in MLM, you usually have to promise others an income potential that probably does not exist.

But there are also some good features of MLM. Sometimes it is the only way to way to get some products and ideas off the ground. I firmly believe that natural health originally got a big boost in the minds of the marketplace due to MLM. Natural health might not be a part of the marketplace today if it were not for MLM.

In any case, if you believe in a free market, you should not mock those who want a free market, such as those who promote MLM.

Gene Louis
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

Hey you should consider this e-book thing

Tarrin Lupo was kind enough to publish and give advice to us aspirants about his lessons learned self-publishing. He's one of us, great guy. He's shown me some of the platforms and I'm experimenting with them. The great thing is it's not an all-or-nothing leap. You can kind of "quietly publish" some stuff on certain platforms here and there, test market segments, refine your work for various platforms. We get to do it at our own pace, total creative and editorial control.

Believe it or not, some of my stuff has actually started selling. With input so derived I'm already working on second and third publications. The product is improving through marketing!

So for the sake of "you never know" perhaps if encouragement don't do the trick, perhaps I can help you get your book to market. Novices, if we can't lead, can sometimes help each other muddle through.

Most of those who think so actually don't and most of those who think sew actually rip.

Good Advice

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate any and all good advice.

It would have cost me about $10,000 to finish the legal research that was needed to produce a book that I would have considered credible. That was fifteen years ago. The information is now out of date and I do not think that the market for the book or ebook would be large enough to repay my investigative expenses.

But it is a good idea and I will consider a stripped down version of the book for an ebook.

Should I note your name in the credits for inspiration?

Gene Louis
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

By all means.

Smudge Pot almost never gets credit for anything. But totally YES YES YES YES YES TOTALLY A STRIPPED DOWN VERSION. Because it has the potential to warm you back to a full verison and today is a very different day in terms of research. Now there's such a thing as crowd sourcing just for starts.

Now I'll tell you something else for nothing: in the long form you want to produce basically a research or white paper which will be irrefutable which you might just do. But in the short form you get to just publish your THESIS and more than this, you, yes you, GET TO TELL A STORY.

Stories are much different than hypothesae, with a hypothesis comes this horrible scientific form of assertion, test, progression as a formula. With a story you just get to put a question in somebody's mind like a single burning coal and just let it slow burn....

and then you get a lead. In my next book we shall parse these questions.

Hey why convert or convince an audience and sell them one book when you can set the hook and keep them coming back for more?

More than one way to skin a cat my friend and some ways the cat actually comes back and licks you and purrs like a kitten.

So you wanna credit Smudge Pot? Id like that more if you were truly famous. What I really want from you is credibility points that eventually add up to me getting a credit card in the name of Smudge Pot. A tall order which I will do you the favour of not expecting you to do exclusively.

Most of those who think so actually don't and most of those who think sew actually rip.

Ok how cheap is it to reply to your own post?

Well somebody recently told me they could sell me a life insurance policy to the tune of $20k.

Hey man, you can buy me, my posessions and my animals OUTRIGHT for $20k today. Fact is I'm not worth that much. But I can do something else. By trying out my stories here and on other boards I have something more than science. I know how to make you laugh or cry. It's RAW POWER like on the highest orders. I can make you laugh and I can make you cry. Know what else I know? When I do that you get stronger.

I can do something more devious. Underhanded. Just plain nasty. I can make you ANGRY. And what's even worse, as an activist I happen to know that when you are sitting down I can't move your heavy ass. When I get you to stand up in rage then you are off balance and I can move you as easy as an exhaled breath. I can manipulate you with my fingertips and before you know what you were doing to assert yourself, you find you are in a trap that you can't get out of.

What shall we call "suasion" my friend? I have some utilitarian thoughts on the subject. But for me it really gets down to motive. And I got ears for that. You, my friend, bring truth to the table. It has a certain ring. For an academic all things are truth once proved by our epistomology; trial and error, controlled experiment and acceptance of authority.

Your freedom, I sense lies in stepping out of this paradigm and then....

and then.....

when you have your batteries properly armed,


In essence what I say is you don't have to have a nuke....yet. Just set them up for the grand take down.

Just one option. And don't give up. Just don't give up. As my unlcle Jim Joe Duke once said, "you don't worry if they know karate you just take your shibbet and kick their abbsesses (sic)".

Most of those who think so actually don't and most of those who think sew actually rip.

Michael Nystrom's picture

The whole thing about MLMs

What they say is they don't advertise, and they put all of that marketing money into the chain. So the money that would have been spent on advertising goes directly to the people who are selling the products.

Participation is, of course, voluntary.

Like with all marketing, they make it sound juicy.

The Bottom Line is Much More Complex Than it Appears

MLM has a totally different pricing structure than mass distribution.

Without posting all of my research for the book that was never completed, here is a very rough example of why MLM structure requires MLM products to be necessarily higher priced than mass distribution products...

Mass Distribution Bottle of Vitamin C: Shipping - 25 cents. Advertising - 25 cents. MLB cost of manufacture due to high volume - $1.50. Retail shelf price - $5.25

MLM similar bottle of vitamin C: Shipping - $4.00. Marketing materials - 50 cents. Downline Commissions $4.00. Low volume MLB cost of manufacture - $3.50. Total delivered cost to consumer - $16.50.

Price is not the only factor to use in evaluating MLM's. Some of them have a lot of good to offer in pushing new products and new ideas into the marketplace. And, sometimes, MLM's are the only source of some types of products or some quality levels. In addition, buyers of MLM products can (sometimes) get a lot of useful consulting on the efficient use of some products.

Personally, I do not like MLM although I continue to hope that someone figures out how to improve it.

However, this thread was about Doug Wead. I totally and completely support him in his endeavor to sell MLM products into a free market. In his heart, he is a free marketer. If we do not support free marketers then why should anyone think that free market ideas will ever succeed?

Gene Louis
Supporting a Needed Tool for Government Feedback:
A Citizen-Operated Legal System.

Wead has got a boner.

First he made loads scamming Christians with his MLM scam. I saw a documentary. They appeal to strong ideological groups and make a good portion of their money at conventions, dues, and starter packets. If they do get some folks selling they are always at the top of the pyramid. They took the Christians to the cleaners. Only a very tiny percentage even makes their money back. He believes he found some new victims with the Liberty Movement. We are definitely a strong ideological group. I think he may be mistaken that we are suckers though.

Seriously how many here spent more tying to start a million dollar Amway business than they made? See? It is all about motivational speech. Which Doug Wead is a master at.

Michael Nystrom's picture


About Doug specifically, or about Christianity scamming MLM's?

I will try to find it.

I watched it before I knew who Doug was so I do not know if he was involved. I will look for it. It was definitely about Amway scamming Christians though.

Well, I found this Dateline program. Quixtar is Amway and what I said was true. It does not mention the targeting of Christians though. I will keep searching for it. Here are parts one and two of the Dateline. 99.8% of distributors make very little if anything. The others make most of their money from books, tapes, speeches, etc.: