8 votes

Should the United States have created the state of Israel?

I hope this essay isn't seen as anti-Semitic in any way. It is not meant to be.

It only asks a question about the role of the U.S. in creating another nation based solely on a creed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When the United States created the state of Israel in 1948, it sealed a certain fate which will last indefinitely.

One might argue that the U.S. didn't create Israel by itself - after all, didn't many nations participate?

But after WWII, the U.S. had the biggest guns in the world, including sole possession of the atom bomb.

No one could have forced us to do, or prevented us from doing anything.

So without the power of U.S. military might behind the decision to form a new nation (which meant displacing three quarters of a million people), and draw up new borders (based only a religion), such a nation-state would not have been created.

The United States itself was formed under strict rules prohibiting it from being based on any religion, creed, culture, language or any other such parameter restricting citizenship - other than the idea of individual liberty.

So it's rather ironic that we were instrumental in creating a new country BASED COMPLETELY on a belief system.

If you weren't Jewish, you couldn't live in Israel proper after the borders were drawn, and it's basically the same today I believe.

Now I'm not arguing whatsoever against U.S. efforts to liberate Jewish prisoners from Nazi concentration camps.

I read the book "Auschwitz" when I was 13, and it had a profound and lasting effect on me.

It was hard to believe humans could do that to one another, but the photos didn't lie.

My question is: After the Germans were defeated and Jewish prisoners freed from those camps, is that where the U.S. should have stopped?

Other than humanitarian efforts (not by government force, but rather by charity) to aid former prisoners back into freedom, was it a good idea to actually create a nation for them?

Would our founders have warned us about being invloved in forming a nation based strictly on a religion?

Would thay have told us we would never be safe again if we did that?

Will we one day be involved in a war over Israel?

Is there's any stopping it?

How many Americans will die (or have already died) in defense of Israel?

Will it never end until the end of time?

How many more 9/11's will happen to us for our involvement?

Will all the biblical connotations become self-fulfilling prophecies wherein our interventions will be justified and deemed necessary i.e. Revelations?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe I'm off base here, and I suppose the criticisms will come hot and heavy.

But today, American citizens are a semi-slaves, not only to Israel, but to all the other countries to whom we're giving untold billions of dollars in a futile attempt to buy peace and "friendship."

Case in point: We've given Egypt some $70 BILLION over the last 40 years to leave Israel alone.

And we still give them billions. But they're not going to leave Israel alone anymore.

So what do we do NOW? Continue to give them weapons and money which one day will be used against US?

The same goes for Syria, Libya, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, UAE, Qatar etc.

Our founders warned us, but we didn't listen.

And now we'll forever pay the price - in blood, treasure and national insecurity.
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As always, I'm open to opinions as to why I may be wrong about this.

I only wish I was.



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(((((((((((((((Pawnstorm)))))))))))))))))))))

What do you call a pig in a pawn shop?

A

Ham Hock!

Now I thought that was really funny when my 9 year old read that joke to me off of his laffy taffy candy wrapper.

I immediately thought of this thread that I had been dialoging on put up by Pawnstorm. Amazing how the DP comes to mind during the simple moments of life.

Rather humerous Bear...

Perhaps my post needed a shot of humor!

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Yes,

and I got the humor twice. Once when my boy read me the joke and a 2nd time when I anticipated telling you the joke :)

The more I learn about history the more I hate Israel

The Zionists are terrorists just like the neo-cons here in the US are. Isn't it ironic that AL-CIA-DA has never targeted Israel? Its because the CIA and Mossad control AL-CIA-DA.

Everything that has happened over the past decade and continues on today is blamed on Al-cia-da. Its the justification used for our never ending wars and the destruction of our constitutional rights and al-cia-da is a creation of our so called leaders and they control them to this day. They use OUR tax dollars to fund terrorist attacks whereever they want to get involved to steal resources or just to sell more arms. People need to wake up to the fact that the bankers have always funded both sides of every war and they are doing it to this day. Ending the FED is about much more than stopping legal counterfiting...it will make it impossible to fund illegal wars with money borrowed from the unborn.

Well put go213mph - "AL-CIA-DA"

Great post too.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

Ron Paul doesn't hate them

Do you know something he doesn't?

I doubt it FBI_

RP is a christian and I'm an Atheist. RP also would alienate A LOT of people that listen to him if he said he hated Israel. I think RP has voiced his displeasure with Israel much more candidly than any other congressman, but I don't think anyone really knows what he thinks about the state of Israel.

In RP's Liberty Defined, he

In RP's Liberty Defined, he speaks well about Zionism. He did that to begin focus on Zionism in a way to encourage Zionists to be good rather than bad and that if they are bad, that bad will contrast greatly from what RP and other prominent people said, showing that, Oh, my, what, so, Zionists are proving us wrong, whaaat? RP's language corners Zionists to behave well. He's a smartie, that RP.

Recommendation: Speak well about Zionism and speak it loudly and far. If Zionists behave opposite to who speaks about Zionism favorably about life and love, all the more people hearing the words and seeing the deeds will see what is what.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

that is interesting--

and it is what Dr. Paul does well--

encourage--

trouble is there are so many violent Christian Zionists--

:(

HOW on earth do *we* speak well of them?

I don't think Jesus would--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

1988vote, just want you to

1988vote, just want you to know I remember I'm supposed to answer you. I'll be back when I have time to reread the chapter in Liberty Defined again. I read it a day or two after you and I had this conversation but I haven't had the time to think about what he read. So, I'll reread it and think about it and write what I will here. OK, 1988vote, very good. I'll talk with you later.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

All of us are God's children

you, me, Christian Zionists, Jews, Hindus, everyone.

Jesus said that He is the judge not you and that his commandment to you is to treat others as you yourself would like to be treated.

If you were Christian you'd know all of the above.

Act accordingly.

FBI--

Jesus did not speak well of the Pharisees--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

I feel the need to interject here

It is my understanding that we are all God's Creation.

However, God's creation is divided into 2 subsets:

1)Children of God
2) Children of the Devil

Jesus was speaking to the Pharasees.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

contrasted with:
1 John 3:10 KJV
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

How does one become a Child of God:
Galatians 3:26 KJV
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

...

And as I pointed out.

Jesus *IS* the judge.

We are not.

Jesus told His disciples to beware the leaven of the . . .

Pharisees--

how can a mere mortal be wary of someone without at least discerning, if not making simple judgements--

there is a difference between judging and condemning. *We* speak of people with sound judgement or of people with poor judgement; perhaps *we* are in trouble here with semantics--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

there is a difference between

there is a difference between judging and condemning.

Finally. FINALLY. F-I-N-A-L-L-Y someone in addition to me recognizes each of those words, those processes, for what they are.

Lordy, lordy, I swear. I thought I'd never encounter anyone who knew them to be separate, for each to have its own meaning. Good on you, Mrs. RPer since 1988. Yah!

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Amen to that!

1 Samuel 16:7 KJV
But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

:)

Thanks for your reply,

Thanks for your reply, 1988vote. I'll reply with an answer later today. I'll reread RP's chapter on Zionism as well as think about how to speak well about Zionists.

In short I recommend speaking about Zionism as any other following: Mention the good even if its sparse and make the argument (even using that sparseness to your advantage) that the people who want Zionism have had their belief sullied and maligned by people (including their ethnic kind) who want to pervert it, a perversion that brings forth dominance. If you have information, talk about it because that will help contrast the good Zionists from the bad Zionists. The contrast is key; it's where employing argument really comes in, meaning they, the Zionists, are trying to live in peace by building a location their own despite people who call themselves Zionists are trying to tear down their community, showing that the latter people aren't Zionists but destroyers. This want, the one to live with each other in peace, is common among man, it's part of freedom. Its "name" is "ability to associate," which is good as long as the people associating don't harm anyone (except themselves if they want to). Just focus on the good and build the case for freedom of association.

Thank you for the reply, 1988. I'll get back to you with what RP wrote.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Israhell is a racist country

founded on ethnic cleansing. It meddles endlessly in America's affairs, and WE the people are forced to support it with billions of dollars of tax money.

Golly gee, I wonder why anyone would hate that wonderful country? #sarcasm

Ron Paul believes is stopping ALL foreign aid.

As do I.

Ron Paul does not hate Israel, Israelis or Jews.

Ron Paul wants 'aid' to end to all countries--

he doesn't 'hate' anyone. Well . . . I'm not sure he's wild about the men who run the FR--

LOL!

But he doesn't hate them--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Chill

No one said anything about Dr. Paul hating Israel or jews.

But maybe you can explain to me why you support Zionism? I am genuinely curious.

Here's the deal "Hannahmontana"

If you REALLY cared so much, GO MOVE THERE.

I think you're just an anti-semite loudmouth using Israel as your strawman to advance your anti-Jewish agenda.

Because if you REALLY CARED as much as you run your mouth, you would move there and do something about it.

It's your right to do so and if you did it's none of my business, go to town.

But as long as you are here shooting off your mouth, b* tching only, jawboning and refusing to take action, I'm going to expose you.

There you have it!

Ha Ha Ha!! Great reply, all that space used,

and not one fact.
It is impossible to be anti Semitic against European jews.
The Semites are a group of people (Arabs and Jews) who come from the Middle East.
Most American jews, and the politics of Zionism originated from Kazakhstan and Georgia.
A very great number of Semitic Jews are desperately opposed to Zionism, many also question the 6 million, and many of them were horrified that their country too was stolen from them by a huge influx of European refugees who weren't jewish at all.
Instead of losing the plot, why don't you learn up on the topic...,
or are you a Zi spy?

Wrong.

European Jewish Y-DNA (patrilineal DNA) is the same as all Jewish people worldwide (except converts).

Nice try.

Again, if you are so mad at Israel THEN MOVE TO PALESTINE so you can help Palestineans.

Fact is you really DONT CARE that much about Palestineans. You just hate Jews.

Here's what I want you to do. For the purposes of your an my relationship, consider me to be a European Jew.

Act accordingly. Thank you.

We all share a common DNA

We are all human. The common belief in the science community is that we all come from a common thread originating from.... Africa!
Why would I move to a country that has been stolen, not only from the Palestinian peoples, but also from the native Jewish population.
And to help you along the way of becoming a better person.....I don't hate any race....just their politics.
If you are a European Jew, get OVER IT, and become a fully functioning, caring, empathetic, human being, who cares for his brothers and sisters, no matter what. That is what the greatest Jew of all time taught us!

Please.

There is an entire branch of science devoted to this that can clearly distinguish haplogroup branches.

While, yes, we all share DNA, European Jewish patrilineal Y-DNA is the same as Israeli, Sephardic, etc, etc.

No matter how you want to try to slice it, no amount of neonazi wizardry is capable of defeating the hard science of that fact.

Haha.

You sound mad, bro. Why are you raging all over your keyboard?

I do not support American Zionism.

However, I am also not an anti-semite like you.

Nor do I give a r@ts @ss about anyone else external to America's view on Zionism as it's not my, your or any American's business, frankly.

Again, I am 100% in synch with Dr. Paul's position on the matter since 1994 when I first got to know Dr. Paul. And I can assure you Dr. Paul's position on the matter has not changed since AT LEAST that time.