What do you think?
McCain can't stand Hagel, looks like plenty here are McCain supporters giving the same argument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_F7u1PzjP8
I was thinking about that, as I have accepted his reasoning on Iran sanctions ( gonna pass anyway, get in an anti war amendment while gaining political capital)
But I won't defend him here. I think he's going to vote yes on Hagel, but if he doesn't I'm not going to defend him for politicking... its one thing when it is inconsequential but here, even if its not too close, Paul needs to stand with the right side.here, or else he has alligned himself w his fathers enemies.
rand will lose my support if he votes against Hagel, but watching his questioning of John Kerry I think it is pretty clear he will vote to confirm. I don't like that ye hasn't come out and made a statement endorsing him already, but I think on his PR side he is clearly in GOP primary mode.
I disagree. I think it is almost certain he will vote no. Voting "yes" on Kerry, who sold his soul to the interventionists many years ago, was a very easy vote by comparison. Levin, Beck, Hannity, etc. despite some carping about Kerry, hate Hagel far, far more.
... better not vote to confirm him. He is a neo-con statist. Did you listen to his questioning by the Senate? This guy is as interventionist as they come and mind you he supports the Patriot Act so we know he will not be protecting our liberties as "secretary of Defense". You guys go by a purist ideology and rip on Rand Paul if he votes for anything that isn't radical enough. Well let me tell you Rand Paul will be making a big move reaching out to the liberty movement if he votes AGAINST this guy.
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Oh...your claim that Hagel is some sort of super-interventionist doesn't correspond to his record. He was solidly pro-second amendment and, unlike some conservative "heroes," voted against BOTH No Child Left Behind and Bush's Prescription Drugs program.
... that list has nothing to do with foriegn policy. And if he is so Conservative why did Obama appoint him?
You said "neocon statist" and didn't qualify that you were ONLY talking about foreign policy....so I took you literally. While Hagel initially supported the Iraq War, he turned rapidly against it and consistently voted the right way on issues such as troop withdrawals, etc. For the past decade, he has been consistent voice for cuts in military spending. His record is far less "statist" than nearly all his colleagues.....then, again, if you are purist, nothing will be satisfy.
Why did Obama appoint him? There is an outside chance (e.g very much a long shot) that he actually wants an "enforcer" to preside over cuts in military spending.
Despite his statist views, Obama might realize that the status quo of super world empire can't be sustained. This has happened before after all. Gorbachev, despite the fact he was a Leninist, realized that the Soviet Empire was unsustainable and dismantled it. The British Labour Party, despite its statism on national health care and other issues, helped do the same to the British Empire. It would not be unimaginable for Obama to do the same.
Again, I admit that this very much a long shot and that Hagel is likely to toe the line. Still, because of his record as fiscal hawk on military and domestic spending, he offers a better chance of actually taking on the military-industrial complex and its Likud adjunct than any other Secretary of Defense in recent memory. Certainly, the GOP persecutors of Hagel don't offer an alternative to the status quo!
... I see that Rand Paul is gonna vote against Hagel. The neo-cons will love him and it will really not hurt us if he is not appointed because he is not "perfect".
I think Chuck Hagel would be a little better then say McCain or Graham but in reality you and I know he cannot really say whatever he wants because he will be under high scrutiny from the GOP.
It really doesn't matter how he votes... but I know he will get butchered by all the Rand haters for whatever way he goes. If he votes for him he will be tore apart because Hagel supported the patriot act and is not perfect and if he votes against him... well you know what will be said.
Where did you hear that he will vote against Hagel?
"All?" I guess I qualify as a "Rand hater" by many standards but I'll praise Rand enthusiastically here, on email, and on facebook if he has the courage to vote for Hagel. I haven't been afraid to do so in the past when he does the right thing. Sadly, I don't think I'll have the opportunity to do so.
... and you probably will but what about all the people here who do not think that Hagel goes far enough. Then Rand Paul will be called a traitor because he didn't push for someone else. He can't win in other words.
Those folks seem to be a minority by my count. The pro-Hagel group is very strong among radical libertarians, including the circle around antiwar.com and rockwell.com.
If he voted for Kerry, he should certainly support Hagel who is far, far superior. I'm not a purist. Hagel at least offers a small possibility of budget cuts and foreign policy restaint. Moreover, Hagel will give the Likud and the neocons heartburn in a major way and that's good enough for me.
He's the best they're going to get, its a meaningful vote.
I'm watching this one closely too, you'll have to wonder it Rand won't do the right thing here, when will he?
Am I the only one here who really wouldn't mind all that much if he's confirmed? I know he's not perfect, but he seems better than any of the realistic alternatives.
I'm wondering about this as well. I really don't know how Rand will vote.
It even made me uncomfortable and I was pro-Hagel going into this thing.
Ugh Ted Cruz made me sick. there was nothing wrong with Hagel comments in those videos. Israel has committed war crimes, the us is perceived as a bully (and has actually been one) and all of those things could've been thrown at Ron himself w. the same kinds of video excerpts. I wanted to throw up when he mentioned the holocaust as an explicit reason nit to accuse Israel of war crimes, that was despicable.
Its impossible that Hagel is worse than his replacement nominee will be, so no justification for voting against him really.
This could be a close vote and its a meaningful one. This is not some 90-1 vote that the apologists constantly defend.
If Rand votes yes, he will be disowned by Hannity, Beck, Levin, etc. For this reason, I think Rand will vote no. I hope he surprises me but would be out of character for Rand to alienate these new fans.
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