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Bad News For Middle Class America: IRS Says Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

Matt Cover | January 31, 2013 | CNSNews.com

In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan

Read more: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-...

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This will be uncontrolled

highway robbery as it is in Britain and Canada; a system totally out of control that does more harm than good; a bunch of doctors that basically prescribe pills and you are lucky if you survive.

Who are the controllers?

We the people hired these.... [Sneeze. Cough. ...] Now where was I?

Here. Might this help you feel better? Congressman Ron Paul insisted bills be read... up to a point. Submitted by Mark Twain 01/01/2013

Imagine. If we held our hired help to account?

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

They play the game of handing over to congress

documents containing more pages than can be read in the allowed time. So who / what is at fault?

Isn't "New & Improved" Tax on Health Care "No fault" insurance?

It is all so confounding to me.

I hear tell that some states have "No Fault" horseless carriage insurance.

Ins't this like that? Just horseless carriage damage excluded & taxpayers pay regardless. Either way, horses are outlaws. Outside the this law. The horses have better sense. Better public relations, perhaps.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

This proves Obamacare was designed to be a tax all along,

This proves Obamacare was designed to be a tax all along. The IRS shows $20,000 for the cheapest insurance plan to advertise the $2,850 "penalty" for NOT buying the insurance.

Most people who haven't bought insurance up to now will go for the "penalty" without blinking. They will be HAPPY to shell over three thousand dollars to the IRS for the lesser of two evils.

And the IRS gets to report a huge surge of incoming tax revenue.

What a sick, twisted way to steal from the people...

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

'The Nursemaid of All Taxes on our Health' - By Mark Twain

    'The Nursemaid of All Taxes on our Health'

When I was a boy, the word for our well being was our constitution. Now, let me hearken back. A little further.. Please wait... There.

We arrive at a time before the war. Sometime about 1845. I was a 10 year old cub. At that time I had little notion of the United States Constitution. This was a childhood time in my life. A person's constitution was his own. It was the general fitness of his body. A rapid gait, quick wit or sharp was a sure sign of a strong, healthy constitution. A good day fishing, all the better.

A cough or sneeze lead one to believe otherwise. Care was needed. Water, food, sleep... or when all else did not return ones vigorous health, he had to rise out of his chair... or bed... & get back to work... Lest he would starve.

Now please let us return to our present... Just a moment... Here we are. Now we must remove this onerous tax burden, lest it crushes us. Then, w/o that tragic comedy tax we can work on improving the health of our aforementioned constitution... I wonder if Dr Ron Paul makes house calls?

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

I wouldn't look too far into the $20000 amount

it is for an example of how their eligibility for a subsidy would or could pan out. IT has nothing specific to indicate a SERIOUS projection of what the cost of a private insurance company's health premium/split would be. IT could end up being accurate but I guarantee that is not the intent it is a placeholder as an example for explaining other facets of the law.

I will do a deeper dig down into "obamacare" soon for everyone here. I work in the insurance brokerage industry and I haven't seen much here on the DP with regard to this topic that really digs down and shows what is what. believe me it's a big CF. But, I'll use my knowledge to try and give some of you the down low on the major items and impact to people and company's. It's the one thing I can contribute with some serious confidence that may benefit others here.

Perhaps you could fact check some of my findings

A couple years ago, I researched costs for a book I wrote. What I came up with for all types of insurance combined (health, home, auto, pet, etc.) for a family was:

A lifetime 'average' income was $40k * 40 = $1.6M
A lifetime 'average' insurance cost (across ALL forms) was $480k
A lifetime 'average' insurance benefit (across all forms) was $28k
The 'average' emergency expense was $80k (paid claims)
One in twenty families experienced and recouped a qualifying emergency

Spreading the $80k cost out to the 19 non-emergency 'beneficiaries' added $4k/family to bring the total lifetime benefits to $32k.

Conclusion that I came to was: We pay 30% of our gross wages to all the various insurances we buy and in return we get 6.7% of our money back, which is only 2% of our gross income. Stated another way, the insurance industry charges us 1400% more than we successfully claim.

This does NOT include any indirect insurances we pay, such as business and financial ones that are quietly passed on to us. It also does NOT consider ObamaCare in any way.

Proposal: People hearing this info frequently suggest that we get 10-20M people to contribute that $32k to a pool and then self administer a program where peer review can focus on the customer. Even increasing it to $50k ea. seems acceptable in the light that preventative care would be a focus. This cost is also before any cost reduction benefits are considered like eliminating the 40% of doctors' time and 60% hospitals' time spent on insurance issues or the massive cut due to focusing more on prevention.

Does this all sound accurate?

Thanks for the post,

very useful info.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

^This is what journalisim is

I commend you on doing the research and leg work and your willingness fo both share it and have it fact checked by other like-minded individuals.

We need more journalisim and less media shills regurgitating 'official press releases.'

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle."

Thank you! However,

journalism isn't what I did it for. I'm an idea implementer.

I had to write the book to generate some interest for a few economic proposals (and get some feedback) that I'm not going to be able to do without outside help.

One such solution is the insurance pool mentioned above. Another is modeling the medical industry (aka nurses and doctors) after the electrician industry (e.g. apprentices and journeymen). Yet another is a public information archive of both opinion and interrelated facts. One more is a tax on all income generated from "leveraged" money (i.e. money not owned by the profiteer - see fractional reserve banking). One more is to pass legislation or an FEC statute that mandates a proven computer reporting system which is completely open and transparent while keeping vote anonymity.

Of course I won't have the money to do these until I get the grid and it's power solved so don't expect them til the end of the year. ;)

You suggest a tax on "make-believe" fractional reserve banking?

NY NY. Wise Idea heard on the street: "One more is a tax on all income generated from "leveraged" money (i.e. money not owned by the profiteer - see fractional reserve banking)." - tamckissick

Printer-That-Be: No thanks to you! You just wait until I tell Mark Twain about your crazy idea! He might like it. He will convince others that your idea is... is nothing but taxing make-believe fantasy. Humph! Nothing but fantasy. [Roll eyes.

You may as well make up a tax on fantasy metal-manipulation while you are at it! Humph! You frost me! Crazy! [Roll eyes again, showing no sign of horror. Run to Federal Reserve Bank, muttering all the way.] This m must be stopped. This m must be stopped... [Scamper back inside bank.]

[Dial the Crown to sound alarm.]

Operator, The Crown, London: Hello. Your call will [certainly] be recorded for quality control [& other unmentionable] purposes. May I help you?

PTB: Yes. It's me. We [the Royal We] got troubles. Tax on Fractional Reserve Banking....

Operator: I will connect you right away sir. Please hold...

PTB: [Still muttering...] This idea must be ridiculed till even Hell won't have it! Hello? ... Hello? ....

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

IMHO the beauty of true journalism

is that it can sometimes happen by accident - merely asking questions and doing research can uncover a lot of otherwise hidden things or cast truth in a new light so that some may see for the first time.

Your ideas sound fascinating, pursue them and work hard, keep it up!

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle."

I will

conscientiously object, and refuse: this is another line in my civic sand

What people need to understand

We do not have an INSURANCE problem - we have a totally manipulated market problem.
We are on a Health Savings plan - which I love the conept of. We have Cigna for major medical and routine exams - everything else we pay for out of the account. We come out WAY ahead since we have no real medical issues.
The problem? Doctors. Plain and simple.
Since I am now paying out of pocket - I treat it like any other service - I ask how much the service is - what is included etc etc.
Well - let me tell you - you soon realize what a crazy street hustle the whole industry is. NOT ONE doctor has been able to tell me what the service includes and HOW much it will cost. Not to mention - non "primary care" doctors have been so programmed to NEED permission from the "primary care" doctor - they wont even take the appointment.
Let me explain.
Daughter has a pain in her knee from sports. Knowing enough about it - I want her to go to an orthopedic and get some x-rays. Call the orthopedic(of which, I am a prior customer of) and try to make an appointment. No can do - they tell me the pediatrician needs to contact them. I say Why? First it is because of insurance purposes - then I tell them I dont care - I am paying out of pocket. Then it is -um-oh-um-um - well because we need her records and we want the pediatrician to see her first.
Really? So you want me to go pay a pediatrician to tell me to go see and expert instead of just going to the expert? Well that make a lot of sense - not.
After being as polite as I can and finally making it clear that wasnt happening - they made the appointment. Then the fun begins.
How much is the appointment?How much is each x-ray?
Well that depends on what your insurance pays.
What part of this don't you get - I am paying you out of my savings account- I am paying - not the unsurance company.
Well we still run it through your main insurance(Cigna)to determine the bill.
So you CAN'T tell me NOW how much I have to pay
So, I have no way of determining, based upon my ability to pay, if I want 1,2,3 x-rays, maybe and MRI or whatever. I just have to go through like a cow, get milked, then you will tell me how much I owe you?
Well, yes, how else would we do it.
Pretty simple - you tell me an x-ray is 50 dollars. I tell you I can afford 2 x-rays - not 4. You tell me an MRI is 400 dollars. I then decide - skip the x-rays and do the MRI. Just like EVERYWHERE else you purchase something.
Well, we can't do that.


Go to get my yearly blood work done. Same story. So I have no idea how much the blood test is - no idea what the hell its for - oh - but my doctor says I need it and insurance covers it.
I actually have had receptionist totally baffled - they really thought you HAD to have insurance. What happened to just paying?????

Sad that doctors offices are inept

... but awesome that you're trying to re-calibrate them.

I dream of the day of being able to self-insure for medical, homeowner's, cars (except any rqmts for liability by law I guess) and being able to tell the insurance companies to kiss off.

I am in the process of dropping All-State because they have been giving me the run around on our homeowner's because our porch railings aren't properly spaced. WTF? Basically, they want to collect premiums but guarantee they never have to make a payout. Thieves! But I digress...

It seems to me that the health care industry, and most people's lives, would be so much better if we only had insurance (if any) for major medical incidents and we paid for everything else (checkups, sick visits, prescriptions, etc.) out of pocket.

It's insane that doctors can't tell you how much their services cost! I'm going to ask our pediatrician about this next time we take our kids in. He's also a prepper and I want to know if he has a service menu in mind for when SHTF and what forms of payment he's willing to take.

Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

Health savings plans ARE the way to go

But it is very hard - not for nothing - I am a pretty smart person and am really good and understanding all the BS and doing the math and reading between the lines, and working the sales pitch - but DAMN - it is exhausting - and I imagine most people 1)Simply cannot understand how to make it work and 2)Just dont have the energy to make it work.

It would take years to get back to a reall market system in healthcare - and that would only happen if people understood - which they don't.

Our health savings plan is OUR money(well, I jest - it still has all those big government rules attached - but still) - we keep it every year - roll it over - we look at it just like every other investment or savings account. Can't do that with a full medical plan - you just spend it away and hope you never need a return on investment - never will you get ROI.

Of course it is funny that I am happy to save taxes by having a health savings plan. Seems those taxes drive a lot of the market out of the market as well. Here I am making decisions where my BEST rate of return will always come from NOT getting taxed - pretty messed up system.

A friend of mine won that battle

He is rather well off and pays everything in cash (or silver/gold). He smashed his foot when a trailer came off the hitch. Went in and asked them to take as many x-rays as it took to find the problem. After that he wanted them to do whatever surgery or reparation work was necessary, shoot in a local and stitch it up.

They asked the insurance question and he started laying Grants on the counter. They kept laughing until he got to about $1k, then the doctor took him aside and they settled on a measly $125 (no IV, no crutches, no aspirin and no $20 special wraps).

Out in 20 minutes with no further info, no further aid was needed but he got 3 follow up calls just to check how it was doing.

I know a guy who just went to his vet

From horse kick accident, She stiched it up the same night.

Oh... oh!

I also heard my better half talking a while back about someone who just went to their vet to get the same pills that they knew they needed. She said it was about $4 instead of $300. (My ex is a retired nurse and briefly did vet aid for a friend.)

My family ran an animal-based business for many years

and the medicines given to dogs are basically the same as given to people, just under different doses obviously... and names sometimes. Like you said, veterinarian medications are much cheaper than their human equivalents. My dad still goes to his old vet supply place to get antibiotics and stuff to use himself. Animal antibiotics are a good alternative for the preppers out there on a budget or for those who don't have a prepper-friendly doctor to write extra human prescriptions. Pet stores usually stock the fish versions right on the shelves, but there are other options out there too.

Our family's journey from the Rocket City to the Redoubt: www.suburbiatosimplicity.com

Anyone else want to let them know what we think of it?

It's a notice and comment proceeding, so they're just asking for our feedback...

"www.regulations.gov (IRS REG-148500-12)."

"ADDRESSES: Send submissions to: CC:PA:LPD:PR (REG-148500-12), room 5203, Internal Revenue Service, PO Box 7604, Ben Franklin Station, Washington, DC 20044. Submissions may be hand-delivered Monday through Friday between the hours of 8 a.m. and 4 p.m. to CC:PA:LPD:PR (REG-148500-12), Courier’s Desk, Internal Revenue
Service, 1111 Constitution Avenue, NW., Washington, DC, or sent electronically via the Federal eRulemaking Portal at www.regulations.gov (IRS REG-148500-12). The public hearing will be held in the IRS Auditorium, Internal Revenue Building, 1111 Constitution Avenue, NW, Washington, DC."

We'll at least give them something better to do than auditing.

I'm sort of glad to hear this.

That is the kind of information that will give Obamacare proponents the reality bitch-slap they need.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Im starting to think

NOTHING is going to wake these idiots up.

Starvation will.

Not hunger, they will just think "Wow! I look like an actress!" until they start to bloat. When the smaller ones actually die of starvation in front of them, they will get a clue.
Oh, I woke up on the cynical side of the... life.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

Ayn Rand....

"You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality."

Just Another Way To Destroy The US

Haven't you all noticed that EVERYTHING The Obombya administration does is working toward destroying this country? EVERYTHING. THAT is his top priority in case you haven't figured that out. This is just another nail in our coffin! This is going to end in an ugly way. It's meant to!


second that.

Reality looks more and more like Atlas Shrugged.

Those dopes have no idea what they're doing...

This Obamacare debacle will spur the largest 10'th amendment/nullification movement this country has ever seen.

States are going to nullify this monstrosity one by one... The Feds are going to be ignored and put in their place because of their overreaching and downright insane behavior... AND people are going to start to realize the importance of state's rights and the horrors of a big federal government.

Bottom line: The feds are inadvertently helping the liberty movement by pushing everybody's buttons.

If you are poor, it's still free...

People who can prove they are on welfare or poor will get it for free, the IRS will monitor your income. This is why the premiums for working people will be so high, working people will pay for the rest.

Obama voters win again. Millions more will give up, take the freebies and expand the socialist agenda.