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If Men Were Angels, No Government Would Be Necessary?

If men are not angels, then why do men (and women) control government?

Is government God?

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Even a third of the angels

Even a third of the angels got corrupted...

I believe...

...that the author also noted in the rest of that quote that if angels governed us, then no Constitution would be necessary.

The logic is essentially, "Men are not angels, therefore government is needed. However, government is made of these same non-angels, therefore restrictions are needed on government."

Personally, I'm a Constitutionalist (I do like the Articles of Confederation better, though), but I'm open to anarchism. I'd like to see one of those proposed seasteads provide a case study in how it'd work.

time for a history lesson

There have been multiple times in history where there were no government,and where people were not considered angels.

please check out larkin rose on youtube.

____

"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

If frogs had wings...

If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butts a'hoppin'.

"Damn the pandas, full steam ahead"

-Admiral David Farragut

Cyril's picture

LOL. How picturesque. :)

LOL. How picturesque. :)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

"With if's, one would be able to put Paris in a bottle."

"With if's, one would be able to put Paris in a bottle." **

To which I'd add: "... the Eiffel tower included."

:P ;)

** http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/avec_des_si_on_mettrait_Paris_...

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

The Irrationality of Statism

We are afraid that someone might deprive us of our rights to life, liberty, and property, so we created an organization that deprives us of our rights to life, liberty, and property, to protect us from those that would deprive us of our rights to life, liberty, and property.

The state by its very nature must violate your natural rights to exist.

In order to operate it must deprive you of your property through taxation, if you resist it's attempts to take your property, it will take your liberty through imprisonment, and if you resist it's attempts to take your liberty, it will take your life.

The state is the antithesis of your natural rights to life, liberty, and property.

Check out the Laissez-Faire Journal at LFJournal.com


"The State is a gang of thieves writ large." - Murray Rothbard

Because men are not angels

Because men are not angels, governments always become oppressive.

No

Government is not God. It is force.

Government

Government is made of man so what is the point. Unless government has rules that it MUST follow hmmmm? LIKE THE CONSTITUTION that would be a great start.

Cyril's picture

"LIKE THE CONSTITUTION that would be a great start."

"LIKE THE CONSTITUTION that would be a great start."

If only for one (simple & positive) thing... indeed.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Since men are not angelic, but are

evil-doers, governments are instituted to punish said evil-doers to keep evil in check. It won't get any better than that until men are no longer in thrall to evil.

Government was not created to keep evil in check.

Nowhere was it created for that purpose. It was always and everywhere an institution of predation created by the strongest and most cunning predators in society. It is simply a mechanism to maintain power and wealth in the hands of the rulers. It is the only institution in society that's solely dependent on predation. Without stealing it could not exist. This was its original purpose and continues to be its purpose.

Rothbard's Anatomy of the State:
https://mises.org/document/1011/Anatomy-of-the-State

Audio version:
https://mises.org/media/7640/Anatomy-of-the-State

I don't go by Rothbard,

I go by the Holy Bible.

The biblical qualifications for men who would fulfill the office of judge are "select capable men from all the people--men who fear God and hate dishonest gain--and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens. Have them serve as judges for the people at all times...." Exodus 18:21, 22

The Bible explicitly says elsewhere that Almighty God instituted human government to punish evil-doers and to reward the righteous.

So the bible allows stealing?

And murder as long as it is by the consent or acquiescence of the collective?

Touche. You win that one. The bible seems to be the ultimate source of history on DP lately.

Men reported that Almighty God instituted government.

Link?

Did those men work for the government.

Judges are not government, their job is to judge by the law.

Free includes debt-free!

Only the type of man who is comfortable with political power

will hold political office. Those who prefer to just let folks be are not inclined to take a job telling people what to do.
It is almost impossible to form a government that will not attract the worst people possible for the job. Self governance is truly what we practice, day to day. The truth is, it works pretty well. I don't go 30 on the gravel road by the river because a sign tells me to, I go about 25 because it is a windy road and dimwits come flying around blind corners in my lane. I'm "obeying" and they are "disobeying" but we work it out between us... no cops required. Indeed, the one time someone actually hit me, no cops were anywhere around and so my insurance declared it "no fault."
Hmmmm... probably should leave this out... but... The time I got hit, it started to get ugly. 2 guys with a trailer, I saw them coming in time to pull onto the shoulder and stop, and he still hit me with the trailer hard enough he knocked the car back a couple feet - then he got out and started to blame me, and his buddy got out and they were acting all bad-a$$ until my husband got out, with our 2nd best friend on his hip. Settled things right down. It is the rights we exercise that serve us, not a government.

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

I think you miss the point of the Rule of Law

The point of our system of government, as prescribed in the Constitution, is that government would not be left SOLELY to the latest class of men and women who fill her seats, but that it would all be limited to a certain set of principles infused into the Constitution.

We do not use the Constitution much anymore, however, since the average joe doesn't care to enforce it. Without strict public oversight, government is an irresistible "gold bar". (Read more about that here if you like: http://www.jackpelham.com/2012/11/18/the-gold-bar-metaphor/)

In short, our system of government has proven to be a failure since the people do not want to oversee their own government and to keep it on the straight and narrow.

But back to your question, being a constitutional republic, and not just a republic, presupposes that men are NOT angels and that they DO need some just laws to govern their behavior in office. What we have proven in this "experiment" of government is not only that men are not angels, but that not enough men care about sound principles enough to insist on them, even when they are already agreed upon and established in the Supreme Law of the Land.

And if that doesn't paint us as a sorry lot, I don't know what does. We are an unprincipled nation that does not even care enough to notice that it breaks its own law.

Jack