76 votes

PTSD: Not Mental Illness, Not a Disorder

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is not a disorder at all. It is a perfectly healthy reaction by a mentally stable person who is exposed to horrors and atrocities.

A true 'disorder' would be for someone to go through a traumatic experience and not have an adverse psychological reaction.

It is a cruel hoax to permanently label somebody as having a disorder when said condition is actually a perfectly normal and healthy response to terrible circumstances.

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normal

Tried to explain exactly that about my grandpa and how WWII effected him.
It is normal for training and war to change you.
Not a disorder.

PTSD is just a scam to take guns away from vets.

"You only live free if your willing to die free."

amen

that.

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

So true it needs to be labeled PTSO

Post traumatic stress order because this is the truth. When calling something PTSD is like calling pro-abortion Planned Parenthood just more lies put out by so called media and state funded entities.

ptsd and chronic pain

I have been given the PTSD label but also have chronic pain. For the last two years I have had pain medication prescribed to me on and off as I prefer not to take the opiate, makes me sick to my stomach. Long story short, nothing has been working, went back to the doctor to get a prescription for opana of which I have patient assistance for. I was referred to an addiction specialist by my primary care doc. (I did not know he was that kind of doctor when I was referred)
Low and behold, after a long interview he agreed to write the script, after I took a drug test! I have never had to do this in the past. I know I would not pass as the herb helps me sleep and helps with PTSD.
I made the mistake of 1) signing a release form 2) mentioning I was seeing a counselor. When I went to see the counselor I was treated like a criminal and drug addict of which I am neither (55 yo professional here) because the doctor called them and told them I would not take a drug test! She would not tell me what he said, but grilled me on 'what happened with Dr. Board?', over and over again, did not ask about my ptsd, did not ask me about my mental health situation. I was interrogated for 40 minutes(she was 20 minutes late, never apologized) no hand shake, incredibly negative towards me all to find out I had been labeled as a drug seeker.
I am livid! Now I have another label which is preventing me from getting unbiased mental health care and pain medication.
What the hell is going on out there?

SarahE and 1440 minutes both

SarahE and 1440 minutes both claim professional credentials in this, so I have a question for them, and for everyone to consider.
Say you had a client that got fired, divorced, lost a loved one... and was depressed. Thanks to big money advertising by Pharma, they want a pill. You KNOW it is situational depression, but they want the pill. Would you discourage them? Would you discuss the possible side effect of suicidality? I'll give you benefit of the doubt and say you do, but the patient insists they want the pill, so you prescribe it. A while later, they say they are feeling suicidal. As in, battling it every moment of every day, feeling desperate, not sure they can survive it, they need help NOW.
What antidote can you give them?
What help can you give them?
Would you even try, or would you just add a new diagnosis code, "the better to bill you with, my dear."
I believe the people who go into mental health care are really good people who fall into Pharma's greedy clutches.
You prescribe pills that say RIGHT ON THE LABEL that they can make people suicidal, and if you take the time to read the insert you will find they can cause psychosis. FIRST DO NO HARM. You risk ultimate harm, and pretend it is OK because it is only a small percentage. They aren't very vocal complainers after they are dead, either. Then you wipe the blood off y our hands with a "they were mentally ill anyway" show of sociopathic lack of remorse.
I could not figure out why your replies - both of you with "Chill" - made me so angry, so I meditated on it. It is because I often wonder... How many people like me are out there? How many battled suicidal thoughts and won? Or are the rest of them ALL DEAD, and if they are, I need to scream loud enough for all of them.
STOP PRESCRIBING POISON THAT MAKES PEOPLE CRAZY.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Freedom brings people together

Fishy, when I wrote "chill," I did not direct it toward anyone who has suffered from emotional pain. I just meant to suggest that people who are interested in freedom ought to find common ground. I have been a member of this site for almost 6 years. I was a Ron Paul meetup organizer in 2007. I have campaigned hard for Ron Paul and have voted for libertarian candidates since 2000. I am not your enemy.

By the way, as a psychologist, I do not have prescription privileges. I help people manage their emotional pain using tools like talk therapy, hypnosis, meditation, etc. However, I do think that medications are an important consideration for many people and that people always should be fully informed about potential benefits and risks before deciding whether to take them.

I share your concerns about the potential stigmatizing effect of diagnoses. I encourage clients to pay out of pocket so I do not have to give them a diagnosis and submit that diagnosis to an insurance company with unforeseeable future consequences. Almost no one takes me up on my private pay offer. I guess that people generally don't think that their privacy is worth the cost of paying out of pocket.

Returning to my original point, Ron Paul says that freedom brings people together. I think that most people here agree, but sometimes we forget and attack each other.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Antidote?

Emergency therapy plan? Watched "The Marketing of Madness" yet?

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

chirp, chirp..

crickets...?

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Here is an excellent article on Gulf War Syndrome,

DU poisoning and PTSD. It shows how many who have never seen combat have PTSD upon returning to the failing economic, jobless situations in the US. http://www.globalresearch.ca/gulf-war-syndrome-ptsd-and-mili...

Hold on...

Clinically, it is considered a disorder if it impairs your personal day to day functionality. If it in any way messes up your day, on an acute, chronic, regular basis... it is a disorder. It often involves horrifying flashbacks, anxiety attacks, panic attacks, etc.. simply writing it off as "nature's medicine" isn't the answer. It is a real problem. Before we knew what it really was it was called shell shock... before that other names were given to it. But its as real as day and its a product of humans acting like animals to each other when they're supposed to be sentient, intelligent beings. Try again.

Bump

Well said!

Yeah Chris

Good post brother. I wholeheartedly agree, and in my work with teens and adults with substance misuse problems I usually get to a point where we've laid out their upbringing and brought to light how their current interpersonal relationships are screwy, whereby their perception of themselves is shit and then I jump in and say, "Given all that we know about what happened to you growing up, I'd say your perfectly normal..." With the added caveat that, "let's see how, how you're acting today lines up with who you REALLY are, and the ideas for how YOU want to live YOUR life".

I'm a vet too, and when I came back the first time I heard a car bumping it's system and got frikken rigid stiff and on alert and the guy driving us back from the airport was like, "that's the stereo..." and it got really tense.

War sucks, especially when you're there to get money and pay for college and even though you're not pointing any barrels or pressing any buttons, you know deep down, you've contributed to the deaths/imprisonment/torture/etc. of 100,000's of individuals who likely deserved none of this.

NO MORE LIES. Ron Paul 2012.

Instead of adding words to your statement about childhood trauma

Let's just say that for every word spoken there are a thousand words that aren't. And these 1000 words may never be spoken. And I don't know if that's ok or not.

To those with unspoken words - we can hear you. Remain silent or not - that's your choice. But you are not alone and you'll never be alone.

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

Adam Kokesh

I know a lot of people here don't like Adam and they have some valid reasons but, he IS a vet and so I know he knows what he is talking about when he once said how when he first got back from the middle east he went to the VA and told them he was depressed and they wanted to put him on not one, not two, but FIVE anti-depressants! He basically told them where to put them.

skippy

Debbie's picture

Great thread, thank you.

Much appreciation for the extremely smart and thoughtful comments below.

Debbie

docrife's picture

PTSD

I'm a 20 year veteran and when you get back from a deployment you are herded into a room where you are told that it is very likely you will have PTSD. I have talked to many Marines and Soldiers who were forced to take antidepressant drugs after being told they had PTSD. This is a huge scam and is closely related to the increase in suicides.

Debbie's picture

Wow - that is an incredible scam.

Thank you for posting.

Debbie

Thanks for reading the comments.

That's where the real story is. I just started the fire...

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

Please watch this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlH9sV0lHU&feature=player_de...
It answers many questions on this subject.

NOSHEEPLE

Thanks For The Vid...

Have forwarded to my FB, Twiter, and Google Accounts... Hope It May Help Many...

Joel...

http://youtu.be/hrnND0iTfjo (Knowledge is Freedom)
http://idealchoices.info Understanding Bitcoin

Sorry but you lost credibility when you said:

"A true 'disorder' would be for someone to go through a traumatic experience and not have an adverse psychological reaction."

People react differently to life is true and just because some people have a harder time dealing with certain circumstances doesn't mean they have a disorder is also true. But your statement is outrageous to claim that someone may have disorder because they do not respond in kind. Some people are stronger than others and they no more suffer from a disorder than those who are weaker.

The idea that everyone should act the same is the problem.

Seems like we're sort of on the same page.

My uncle and I both experienced extreme bullying when we were young and it still affects him greatly whereas I now recognize bullying and go on the offensive to try to end it even though I'm internally feeling the same feelings of helplessness, vision blurring, dull throbbing headache forming, pit of the stomach about to vomit feeling that I'm certain he feels and felt.

Are we all different in how we respond or react to bad situations in life? Absolutely. "...everyone should act the same is the problem." Yes I agree. Time does heal wounds but that time is up to the victim not anyone else.

I saw the best minds of my generation, destroyed by pandas starving hysterical naked

-Allen Ginsberg

Actually, what that describes is a sociopath, a real "disorder."

If someone were to feel nothing after being exposed to horrific situations, that is a red flag that the person feels no empathy or compassion. That is not a stage of life, a passing phase, that is a truly dangerous personality.
Those are the folks bombing kids in third world countries with state of the art military might while shedding fake tears for children here as a pretext to prevent anyone from stopping them from achieving their sociopathic goals.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Sorry fishy

You are saying that when something horrible happens to someone or they witness something horrible then unless they suffer for the rest of their lives there is something wrong with them. I don't think so.

What did you do when you saw the planes fly into the WTC? Did you react with shock and uncontrollable sobbing and then seek medical attention to cope with the horrible thing you just witnessed? If so does that mean I am somehow sick because I didn't?

You fail to differentiate between immediate reaction and long term effect. But I think you are really just trying to get a swipe in on the sociopaths that run this country.

You are completely misreading me

"unless they suffer for the rest of their lives there is something wrong with them."

NO!!! I believe that they can be healed, I am living proof. Am I the same person for what I have been through? Hell no. Are you the same person you were ten years ago? Please don't reply just yet - leave me room to edit this. I want to go find a clip for you then finish this thought.

OK, got it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlNwUAMeeek

Please listen to the first 1:25. The whole video is excellent, but that is the pertinent part. PTSD is a transformative experience, like a near death experience. I fought for years to find HEALING, and the process has made me a better person in many ways. I am still a messed up human, there is no cure for that. But there is a cure for trauma, and there is a cure for stress, but no effort is made to treat this as a NORMAL reaction, and no hope is offered to the sufferer of HEALING. Let me put the shoe on the other foot, if I am "abnormal" for reacting the way I did, why do SO many people suffer PTSD?
The current paradigm is to "treat symptoms" and get patients to accept their "disability." (Indeed, my insistence on seeking a cure when they told me there was no cure was often cited as proof of my intractable insanity.) But they have known how to cure this for a long, long time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kDNoa...
That was took a lot of time, and a little love. That has been replaced by a model that is MUCH more profitable. And makes the patients kill themselves and others. Just a little side effect, why should anyone mind if only a few mentally ill people kill themselves. If they take others out with them, we will just enact gun laws, that will fix it.
Transformation - it is the "silver lining" that great suffering offers. The modern model enables endless suffering and denies that transformation is even possible. I was lucky enough to find wise people who knew which plants could aid the transformation I needed, as I was hopelessly stuck in helplessness, and my "therapists" insisted I be. My Creator took mercy on me, and sent me the medicine to cure what the doctors caused and refuse, to this day, to take responsibility for. They are still passing out suicide pills and denying their responsibility when another person succumbs, going to the vile extreme of blaming their victims.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

You are misreading me. :-)

I never said you were "abnormal". I said that people react to things differently. You, as well as the OP, are the ones who suggested that I or anyone who doesn't react in kind are the ones who are abnormal. There are many different factors that play into how people react to trauma, hardship or loss. Those who cope are no more "abnormal" than those who can't. There is just a difference in knowledge, understanding and or attachment.

We agree more than you think. I believe there has been a concerted effort by the PTB to use mental "illness" for the wrong reasons. Not the least of which is for the purposes you describe which in the end gives them more power and keeps people dependent on them. But to say that people who do not succumb to PTS are abnormal is just as bad as saying that those who do are.

I don't think anyone meant to imply that ONLY PTSD is normal

The point being made is that the reactions to stress are as varied as the people exposed to stress, and the the "disorder" is unfair labeling of a very common, "normal" reaction.
Being exposed to trauma and having NO emotional response is the only "abnormal" response. Some will brush it off easily, some will suffer mightily, but the only "disorder" was the trauma, not the reaction.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

LOL

I think you just like to argue because now you are putting words in my mouth and then echoing what I have said. I didn't say that anyone claimed that "Only" P.T.S. is normal. People respond differently. Let me use a few small examples just to clarify, simplistic as they may be.

What was your reaction to Sandy Hook? A lot of people were heart broken with tears and sobbing. I and many here had no such reaction. What was your reaction to 9/11? Many here as well as around the country were heart broken with tears and sobbing. I and others who were already "enlightened" were not. On the flip side of that you have Waco where most of the country was cheering the death of those "Cultists" whereas I and others who knew the truth were crying and angry. I know these are simple examples but they hold true to more personal traumatic experiences as well.

Knowledge, understanding and attachment are big factors in how someone reacts to any "traumatic" experience. There is no NORMAL in the reaction itself, per say.

Anyway just one more observation for you to consider. If you don't think Post Traumatic Stress is a disorder then stop calling it P.T.S.Disorder. :-)

excellent

.

i've been saying this too!

i've been saying this too! thanks!

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html