93 votes

Ron Paul clarifies Chris Kyle tweet on Facebook

As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend's violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle’s family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. -REP

Source:
http://www.facebook.com/ronpaul/posts/10152285499876686

There ya go.

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Story of the Original Tweet




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So Sad

I'm very saddened by this turn of events. Over the past several years I have grown to really respect Ron Paul and identify with him politically. I donated the maximum amount to him in 2012. The GOP is done and I consider the Liberty movement the last hope. On the issues, frankly, I don't really know of anything I disagree with Ron Paul on. Today I now find myself totally lost. I am a veteran. I did not know Chris Kyle personally, but I served in the same special warfare community with him. He is my brother. Paul's comments were reprehensible and no amount of justify them clears that up. Apologies generally contain the word "sorry." I have many other brothers from the military, some still serving, SEALs and Army SF, who are huge fans of Ron Paul, or should I say, WERE huge fans.

The so-called "liberty" movement just lost a HUGE following today, myself included. Thanks Ron, great job! And not just from his remarks, but seeing the reactions to them on sites like this. And to think, I was almost going to sent DP money too.

P.S. What hypocrisy. All this lip service over the 2nd amendment out of one side of your mouth and then bashing honorable military service out of the other? You should all be ashamed. When SHTF don't come begging me for help. Enjoy your conspiracy theories, we're done with you. I was starting to think Rand Paul was a sellout and now I realize why he's doing what he is... because you guys really are nuts!

maybe you should apologize

for jumping to conclusions about what he meant

member for 12 days?

Do you really think anyone here believes you actually ever supported Ron Paul???

If you did, then you sure missed something along the way.

Your games won't work on the liberty movement! Good try though.

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."

member for 12 days?

Do you really think anyone here believes you actually ever supported Ron Paul???

If you did, then you sure missed something along the way.

Your games won't work on the liberty movement! Good try though.

"No physical quantity explains it's own existence, and no amount of time can consume an infinite series of events to bring you to the present, which means all of these somewhere have to be explained by one self-existent cause which is not physical."

I smell complete bullshit

No offense to you personally, but we have seen too many of these "I really liked Dr. Paul, but now he said this one thing and I hate him for it" posts.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

*yawn*

*yawn*

your comment demonstrates

your comment demonstrates that you never understood Dr. Paul's philosophy of a non-interventionist foreign policy and his belief that our military should be used only to defend the united States of America. Chris Kyle was a thug and a murderer, certainly not a hero. He is the epitome of why the world hates us.

Who were the "insurgents" he's so proud to have killed 250+ of? They were people trying to defend against an invasion of their country by a foreign army! How would WE react if the Chinese invaded US? I would certainly hopw we would become "insurgents" and defend against tyranny!

A thug and a murderer?

A thug and a murderer? Epitome of why the world hates us?

Another ignorant, self-righteous hypocrite who isn't man enough to practice what he preaches.

"The so-called "liberty"

"The so-called "liberty" movement just lost a HUGE following today, myself included."

You have no idea if the liberty movement lost a "huge" following, you pulled that observation out of your ass. Our liberty movement revolves around ideas, not around Ron Paul.

"And to think, I was almost going to sent DP money too."

Mhmmm yeah ok, just like you said you were about to send money 2 weeks ago:

"Well, I was actually about to give DP some money and then what to my surprise I come across a 9/11 truther post on the front page."

(http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2923674)



begone ye troll

I

I was about to give DP money then too. I've been on the fence since then. Truthfully I didn't know that comment even went through as my DP account never seemed to register. fyi

You don't think this hurt Ron Paul and the liberty movement?

How would you like to setup a meeting with Navy SEALs and other specwar vets to discuss what he said? I have dozens of buddies on facebook right now trashing Ron Paul, and these guys were huge fans of his before.

Epic fail. You should be distancing yourself from these remarks. Keep digging, you make it worse.

No, I don't doubt that some

No, I don't doubt that some are butthurt, such as yourself. But to claim the liberty movement lost a "huge" following insinuates you personally surveyed an adequate population sample... which clearly you didn't, considering your observation is (laughably) based on your facebook friends.

Respectfully, veterans,

Respectfully, veterans, especially from the SOF community, are exactly the people you don't want to lose. Isn't Paul always bragging about his support from vets? Just go read what people are saying. Paul's comments are basically front page news today. It's everywhere.

These people still believe in the Constitution, but anything affiliated with Paul just got severely tainted.

sharkhearted's picture

RIGHT...not to mention that Dr. Paul

Got more votes from the military...than ALL of the other candidates combined.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

I'll be bold and say I think you missed the message

that Dr Paul was trying to convey.

The message was clear to me immediately as I read it (both the original tweet and the FB followup) but I realize this was not the case for many others.

It was all in the context of Blowback and Unintended Consequences of bad foreign policy and how these consequences inevitably come home to roost.

I believe his message could have been delivered a little differently and we all know he was never a perfect messenger, but the message remained perfect and this is another example.

Sir, it was not an assault on Chris Kyle, our Special Forces or the members of our military in general. If anything, it was the exact opposite of that

It was an assault on the Military Industrial Complex and the enormous damage that endless and unconstitutional wars bring home.

Chris Kyle was an unintended victim of this war machine. The shooter was an unintended consequence of this war machine. All the family members (related or not, yourself included) are unintended consequences of the war machine.

Untold numbers of PTSD cases, 150 Vets suicides every week....these are things virtually nobody is talking about, pretending this 800 lb gorilla isn't even in the room.

What Dr Paul initiated with a few keystrokes this afternoon is opening the door to national discussion about Blowback right here at home.

Very few people in this world have the power to do that and even less have the courage. He did.

Truth is very painful a pill to swallow sometimes and I saw nothing in his words that were meant to insult or ridicule members of the military in any way.

He was attacking the war machine, not soldiers following orders.

One day, I'm gonna' change my name to Dale Lee Paul

Understood

I understand your argument, and I believe that was his intended message, but it was very ill timed and very poorly worded and frankly just plain inappropriate. Also, he's just wrong. There is nothing "violent" about shooting guns. Shooting is a common practice to combat PTSD. Paul is a OBGYN, not an expert on PTSD, he needs to keep such opinions to himself. Are hunters violent people? I go hunting to relax and destress.

What did Paul achieve today? He pissed a whole bunch of people off. Large numbers of people who liked him now hate him. A lot of fence sitters that were starting to be persuaded are now back in the GOP camp.

Don't defend what he said. It was wrong and the Paul lovers need to start distancing themselves from this man and rebrand the movement.

"Large numbers of people who liked him now hate him"?

I seriously doubt that. Also, welcome to the Daily Paul. What brought you here 11 days ago?

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

I love how instead of

I love how instead of discussing the issue people always resort to personal challenges. I only registered 11 days ago, so that means I must be a liar right? Would you like to see the bank transactions from my donations to Paul? Or would you like to see the books I have downloaded to my Kindle?

Really, what is your point?

Sure, go ahead, that is the

Sure, go ahead, that is the 'basest' of brags I see from pre-teens on Youtube. "Would you like to see my proof?". You need to grow up...

Aside from your 'registering'(I personally don't consider that a 'smoking gun', rather than just a possibility), you keep claiming again and again, that you know things such as "He's lost a lot of support today for this". And what's this with him not having any 'experience' with PTSD because he's an OBGYN? He was a veteran, the same level of experience you claim to have. If anything, you're qualifications are 'even', yet you keep pulling the "I was a veteran" line. If you're really a veteran, please stop abusing it as some 'higher authority' that is inherent with the job. You're so adamant that your time as a veteran gives you experience with PTSD, yet somehow, in a classic double standard, that's not the case for any other veteran who doubts your position?

You know it's ok to admit Ron

You know it's ok to admit Ron Paul isn't perfect. Take a breath, you'll get over it.

Where is the honor

in serving an empire?

A republic and an empire are mutually exclusive. You can have one or the other but you cannot have both.

The people that Chris Kyle 'defended' us from were doing what any armed American would do if FOREIGN troops came and OCCUPIED his neighborhood.

You're saddened because Paul did not ingratiate himself to the memory of a man who voluntarily signed up to 'defend' American freedoms by killing poor people overseas.

As a military person you believe that your service is in defense of my freedoms. Then please inform me, what's your battle plan for NDAA and the Patriot Act?

The USA is not an empire.

The USA is not an empire. Despite your rhetoric the Constitution still stands, perhaps by a thread at this point, but it's still there. And it will continue to be there until the day that an armed revolt has been initiated. Have you taken up arms and started waging war against our "imperialist" government? Oh, no, you haven't. So either you don't actually believe what you're saying, or you're a cowardly hypocrite.

Again I repeat, regardless of what YOU think, Mr. Kyle did his duty, plain and simple. And as someone who's been there and seen it for myself, you don't know what you're talking about. Do I agree with the decisions that have been made? Some yes, most no. But you are completely clueless.

What will I do? The day that the Constitution truly needs defending by force, I will be there with my brothers and we will do whatever it takes.

Seriously?

How would you explain US economic, military, and humanitarian aid to foreign countries? How would you explain US military installations around the world? How would you explain 7 decades of foreign intervention? This IS an EMPIRE of olive branches and arrows; it can be denied the same way one can deny the rising and setting sun.

The brainwashing you've undergone in basic is working without a hiccup, and so filled with PATRIOTISM you consider it offensive when some weak, ineffectual, non-combatant criticizes your beloved military. Well buddy, I don't love your military where servicemen are used as pawns by the sinister machinations of a well-born few. I've seen how it destroys people with good intentions and sets their life upon despair and destruction.

OUR NATIONAL DEFENSE SHOULD START AT THE OCEANS AND END AT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

Does anybody on DP.com

Does anybody on DP.com actually read? Try reading what I actually said. I don't agree with the foreign aid or other intervention either, but these things do not make us an Empire. If you truly believe the Constitution is 100% dead, quit being a cowardly hypocrite and take up arms and do something about it.

How about

you do some reading. Here is a very short list:

Ron Paul, "A Foreign Policy of Freedom"
Smedley Butler, "War is a Racket"
Randolph Bourne, "War is the Health of the State"
Chalmers Johnson, "The Sorrows of Empire"

I don't advocate violence against the government - that would only make us as immoral and corrupt as they are.

The Constitution is a dead letter. As government derives its supposedly "just" powers from the consent of the people, the people have an inherent right to withdraw their consent. This can be done via nullification, and more importantly through SECESSION.

Now tell me how the question of the nature of the American Union was settled at Gettysburg and Appomattox.

I see

So killing innocent civilians is seen as heroic? Well, we all knew that was the case with the neo-conservatives, but I never expected to see such blind admiration among people I considered liberty lovers.

Anyone who considers Ron not to be a compassionate person hasn't done near enough research on him. He's agonized for years trying to stop these senseless wars. Why are the troops considered heroes? Because people think they're defending our freedoms. Well, they aren't. They're inhibiting them because the politicians use wars as an excuse to limit those exact freedoms they claim the troops are fighting for abroad.

I'm saddened to see so many people turn a blind eye to the truth of things and follow the MSM dialogue. It sickens me, honestly.

If your post is indicative of the future of liberty movement, I want absolutely nothing to do it with it.

You

are an idiot. The military obeys orders. Those orders come from the President. President gets his orders from Congress. Congress is elected by US.

Chris Kyle joined the military before 9/11 even happened. He raised his hand and swore to defend the Constitution and follow the orders of his chain of command. I took that same oath as well.

Congress, whether you agree with it or not, made a decision to go into Iraq and Afghanistan.

Paul voted yes into Afghanistan. He voted no into Iraq the first time. But despite voting no into Iraq he subsequently voted YES on funding the war in Iraq.

If you want to blame someone for "innocents" getting killed, blame Congress, not Mr. Kyle who did his duty with honor. Mr. Kyle defended his brothers and saved American lives from insurgents. You could also try blaming those actually responsible for the deaths too. Today the death toll in Iraq is nearly identical to the last several years of the war when we still had 100,000+ troops. Nearly all deaths are sectarian and have nothing to do with us at all.

sharkhearted's picture

I AGREE WITH YOU.

Well said. You offer the perspective from 40,000 feet.

Most people cannot get beyond 5,000.

~Chris
Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Congress didn't make an

Congress didn't make an official decision to go into Iraq and Afghanistan... You do know that right? It's not something you can say 'whether you agree with the decision or not', because they BYPASSED the whole process. We haven't had a declared war since WW2. Somehow I doubt you've been following Paul too closely if you're not aware of that, one of his most common points expressed when discussing foreign policy.

"The military obeys orders. Those orders come from the President. President gets his orders from Congress. Congress is elected by US.", You'll probably get plenty of responses simply saying "That's what a lot of people said in Germany", an simplified version of what I'm about to say. You're oath was to defend the Constitution. It was not to blindly follow orders. You keep referring to the authority of the President and Congress as the 'responsibility and excuse' for the decisions made. A true soldier doesn't just embrace the authority decisions without question if the actions are questionable. Luckily, the vast majority of troops don't have to deal with that, but the fact that your first resort is to say, in essence, "I was just following orders" is a viable excuse is telling.

I'm normally not this bothered by a post, but if you can't draw the lines between the 'sectarian deaths' and the U.S. involvement in the region, you need to spend some time looking into the complicated world of blowback.

Congress "didn't make an

Congress "didn't make an official decision to go into Iraq and Afghanistan"???

What world do you live in?

S.J. Res. 23 (Paul voted Yes on this one)
H.J. Res. 114

These clearly constitute "official decisions". Both overwhelmingly passed.

I very clearly understand the concept of blowback and that's not the topic at hand. The he said she said b.s. is another topic, and one we might agree on. We can play that game until we're blue in the face. Oh they attacked us because we did this other thing first? Oh boo hoo, well we did this other thing because they did that other thing and so on. We can go back in time until Adam and Eve playing that game.

What do those politics have to do with Mr. Kyle? He served honorably. Unlike you he actually manned up to try and make a difference.

Ad hominems are SO effective.

You are right that the military obeys orders and I never said anything against that. In fact, if you read the thread where a guy claimed that Obama is not responsible for the deaths of innocents abroad, you would have seen that I made the exact same point you did. However, that does not negate the fact that these men are NOT heroes. Let me clarify: I am not saying that there aren't enlisted men and/or veterans who are heroes, only that not all enlisted men and/or veterans are heroes.

However, you are wrong that the President gets his orders from Congress - this would be the case if the President had any respect for the Constitution. They have either been directed by the President via executive orders or a UN resolution. No foreign war since WWII has been declared by Congress. Bush was just as bad, if not worse.

Also, Paul voted NO on the invasion of Afghanistan. He voted YES on chasing down Bin Laden. Extraordinarily huge difference. He's voted no on every single war as they have all been non-interventionist AND, as yet I've seen, he's never voted for a budget increase. So, either back your shit up or back off.

You can't have it both ways. Either innocent people were killed and those troops aren't heroes or all these men are heroes and those people weren't innocent. Take your pick.