37 votes

Ron Paul's Tweet was perfect timing

Sometimes you need to "smack people", "dump a bucket of ice water", or "hit 'em over the head with a 2x4" in order to "smack some sense into them" and "get them thinking" - which is the objective. In the age of over sensitive - political correctness, society(or sheep if you will) as a whole has always CHOSEN to play it safe, follow the crowd, and say/do the "appropriate thing" at the "appropriate time".

Well in this case, sentiments are(as usual) running high. The result? Its gotten MORE publicity and MORE people talking and debating. Those that condemned Dr. Paul probably never supported or understood him, or his foreign policy in the first place.

I have no doubt in my mind that many of our military members, including Chris Kyle, believe with all their heart that they are doing the "right thing". That they are fighting terrorism and for freedom. As misguided as they are - that is simply not the case. They invaded and took over a country that had not attacked us. What better time than to have the most highly decorated military member for having the most kills - be made an example of what is wrong with that interventionist mentality? The mentality of glorifying an invader/murderer? Chris Kyle was basically made into the poster boy of what every soldier should strive to be. Never mind what any human being(or dare I say & categorize Christians, Conservatives, etc) should strive to be. Fact is, sometimes the truth hurts and you have to call a spade a spade. I think if anything other than stirring up some controversy, this has gotten people thinking and awoken some people up.

Ron Paul's Tweet was perfectly timed.




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This thread is

almost a month old; I missed it previously. Anyway, which tweet? You haven't cited the Tweet nor provided a link...

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

You had a good point, then killed it with this:

"Those that condemned Dr. Paul probably never supported or understood him, or his foreign policy in the first place."

Why do you make ignorant, divisive comments like that? You have no way of knowing what is in anyone's heart but yours, so stick to examining what is in YOUR heart and expressing that clearly. The minute you start telling others what is in their hearts, you have jumped the shark.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

I doubted he really sent it, BUT

It looks now genuine, so I was just shocked he would actually say that, but if he did, it will be interesting what he says next!!

A lot of people were shocked,

when in the 2007-8 presidential debates Ron Paul stood on principle and exposed our flawed foreign policy.

They liked everything else he said, but didn't like that he would expose something that went against the media 'brainwashing' we had all been under. I was one of them.

I had woken up a bit by that time, but I was a screaming war monger after the 911 attacks and one of the first to have a popular "Let's Roll" bumper stickers on my truck to honor Todd B. for their supposed stance against the highjackers.

This problem only gets fixed when people respect the truth. Kyle was a killer for the state, who's indoctrination helped him believe others rights didn't exist and they should be killed because they were less human.
Base

Paul is a genious.

Ron Paul is a really good man, and he's smart too. He's learned a lot in his life and is capitalizing on it.

He's been an advocate of the Christian War Theory forever but has seen America become more and more imperialistic. And he knows that the battle isn't over votes in Congress, it's over the hearts and minds of Americans.

His tweet was ingenious for one reason. It has people talking about actual facts. Lot's of people are discussing this and it's out of the hands of the CNN/FOX scripted debate. And it attacks our flawed foreign policy and exposes so much more!

This is terribly flawed

First, many men and women are in the military because they have no choice, that is, if they want a job and earn a living. I've seen it my entire life. Even my Dad said he joined to get off the reservation where there was no work.

This is true where I live today. There is no work. There is no college. There is no opportunity or alternative for the majority of young people here.

As has been pointed out to me, today's military is not my Father's, yet, my father and uncle fought for decades in and over Nam. Their youngest brother, my uncle, came home and shot himself. My uncle who survived, highly decorated Green Beret, who returned to Nam for decades seeking MIAs, with stories of bombing villages, friendly fire, POWs, and the horrors of that war.

My father was a three war vet, and also highly decorated (many native Americans join the service to get off the reservation and we knew many). My father died from complications from contacting Agent Orange. I never knew him until I was a teenager and he became a base commander.

I saw plenty of kids come and go into the military. Some had made deals to escape petty crimes. Some came to get a GI bill. Some came and loved the order, and some hated it.

Troops are people, human beings, many who fall in love, want to raise a family, and don't know how to do that from where they were born and raised. I would say, the majority of people I've known, had they a choice, a real choice, where they could get a job that paid the rent so to speak, would have never joined the military. They would have rather gotten a job and lived happily ever after.

Instead, they join and make the best of it, which is not always easy. Matter of fact, in some cases, it's hell on Earth, but it's the best they can do because they really don't have any opportunity where they are from. I believe this is true for most troops in most nations, including Israel.

They don't want to "live by the sword".. they are given training, and a duty, and they do that or suffer consequences, and I've seen the brigg full of troops who did dumb stuff.. kid stuff.. let's face it, most are kids.. old enough to serve but not old enough to buy a beer on a hot day in the shade.

So I think it is insensitive and cruel to empoly a quote from the Bible and apply it to people who actually had no real choice, but become a bum on the street.. or deal drugs.. or prostitute, or lead a life of theft and pergury, to not serve. Or spend your youth in prison, where we have millions of young people.

To me, "to live by the sword" does not apply to the military, as many never have a sword, only a video game, and they do what they are commanded to do. Living by the sword applies to those who employ FORCE as a choice, not a command.

I sympathize with this reply greatly

Many in the military "don't" have a "choice", but yet many do and are gun ho about it and have willingly wanted to go back for multiple tours.

Aside from that, as hard as it is to grasp, we always have a choice - as difficult as it may be. Regardless of if it's as simple as, "On my way to work, do I make a left or go straight today, do I have pizza or tacos", OR as difficult as having to make the choice of pulling the trigger to take the life of another human being because you are just following orders. I am NOT talking about self-defense here Grange. That sniper had the choice to "miss" his targets. He chose not to. If that meant not killing someone in order to save some of his brothers in uniform - well all I can say is that it's a very hard choice, but still ultimately a choice nonetheless. Did God put you in that position? Whose word/order will you follow? I am not judging here Grange, for if I were in that position myself, I certainly would have seen it as saving my bothers as well and sinned - simply trying to make a point.

Anyone who is "forced" into the military, be it by a means as a way out of poverty or as ordered to as in many third world countries, - also has the choice of working in other areas outside of battle. Simply being a bad shot and physically weak soldier during basic training may get you an "unfit for combat duty". These soldiers can work in admin, kitchen, garage, the air-station, the submarine, etc., and not necessarily have to "see" combat firsthand. Where there is a will there is a way.

Becoming a bum, drug dealer, prostitute is simply another choice - as for the drug dealer - may I add, a lucrative one. I don't want to get in to the whole immigration argument here, but they can also temporarily accept lower paying jobs that many undocumented immigrants are exploited by. I really don't see that ANY WORSE than prostitution or being a bum. After all, you are still sticking to your principles and obeying God above all else, right? Also, prostitution is more widely accepted as a way of life and earning income in other countries. I believe the taking of someone else's life isn't.

Lastly, I believe Dr. Paul was specifically referring to Chris Kyle and not every soldier in general - I could be wrong. But if I'm not, it could be as simple as that Chris Kyle's life was ended exactly in the same way that he ended other people's lives - unexpectedly.

There is always a choice Grange - sometimes you just don't see it, or look for it in the right places. Heck, sometimes you just DON'T want the alternative. As difficult as some of those choices may seem at the time, there are choices, even if temporary until a better one comes along.

Listen to what he says at the 1:05 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5QxQfyS4o

Sure there is

Tell that to the guys who come home and commit suicide.

Tell them what? That they have a choice?

I'd love to if I had the chance. And I do if given it. That goes for anyone, not just vets.

Or did you mean tell them the bible quote?

The problem isn't how people act on the Reservation.

The problem IS THE RESERVATION that people chose to support instead of change.

What choice do you have when you are born on a reservation?

My Dad begged his father to sign papers for him to enlist when he was 16. My grand father and his four brothers married my grand mother and her four sisters, so most folks he knew were family.

This is not uncommon in very rural areas like reservations.

scawarren's picture

Don't the residents of the

Don't the residents of the reservations receive federal money? I'm not suggesting anyone should be satisfied with that but...

Individualism-
To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
e.e. cummings

To the first paragraph: There is no draft

...

Why would there need to be a draft?

Seems to me iof the only job available is McDonald's and it's being occupied by people who speak a foreign language and won't hire you, or will only give you a part time job that doesn't pay the rent, or bus fare and c;lothes to wear to work, what choice do you have?

deacon's picture

she didn't mention a draft

she said they had no choice,as there are no jobs,the military
is the only thing hiring to make a living
we have recruiters here hitting up the people heading into the stores
trying to get them to sign up
i get calls here for our kids,I love that part,I talk to them,and the kids don't
Needless to say,they don't call here anymore
deacon

setting your expectations to high,can cause depression

What was the meaning of the original quote that Ron is quoting

While most people are focused on what they think Dr Paul meant by the quote (or they simply assume what he meant without asking), the more important question to me is what the original quote meant.

What did Jesus mean when he said "those who live by the sword will die by the sword"?

Matthew 26, verse 50: "Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took him. And suddenly one of those with Jesus stretched out his hand and took his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. But Jesus said, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword, or do you think that I cannot now pray to my Father and he will provide me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?"

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on what the original quote meant. I want folks to have their own ideas before I offer my interpretation.

I "like" to believe that our future is formed with the

choices we have made and not believe in destiny or fate. That's me "liking" to be "in control" if you will. Having said that, I will contradict myself and believe that certain things or lessons have to be placed before us and are meant to occur. Something that happens in order for us to learn(hopefully) from it. All stemming from karma and faith. Which reminds me of the serenity prayer.

If what I just said makes sense, then I would go with the notion that you should let things happen as they're supposed to and never "initiate" violence. Take no action for justice/karma will be done - and just have faith. Stop trying to change and control the things that you can not(or don't want to) accept, and have the strength(faith) to accept them.

How you follow this, of course, depends on many things; pride, stubbornness, arrogance, many negative traits.

look...

...the Bible is an incredibly esoteric thing that very few on this planet can properly even begin to comprehend. However, it also is very basic as well. One of the Ten Commandments is 'thou shalt not murder'. You can argue back and forth whether kyle killed or murdered (I would argue murder, as ignorance is no defense in the eyes of the law), but this is one of yhe few cut-and-dry quotes in the Bible. Inflict pain, suffering, and death on others and it'll come back to you in one way, shape, or form. "Jesus" is simply alluding to karma. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry for not responding to

Sorry for not responding to your comment for so many weeks.

Karma in the same lifetime (as opposed to the actual religious view of karma, which includes consequences that come back to someone in their next life -- a great excuse used to justify the caste system's systematic oppression of countless generations of people in India) is a good way of viewing the Bible quote; it's like what Bono Vox may have meant by "instant karma".

But Ron Paul was using the more popular phrasing of the Bible quote, one that seems more exclusive to people "who live" by violence. Perhaps it is a good translation of the real meaning of the verse,looking at the context would help in that. Nevertheless, it's not merely anyone who kills or murders, it is those whose livelihoods are "by the sword", meaning that they don't have to have killed anyone, or murdered anyone (the distinction is important in other matters, but not here) to "live by the sword".

The definition of murder is discussed in Matthew Chapter 5; it says that unreasonable anger and inhuman insults are at the root of murder (or killing, since the Commandment is equally rendered "thou shall not kill"). I have used inhuman insults to describe people even recently, so I need to change my attitude to avoid a slide toward hatred and violence.

The Bible is primarily a book of wisdom, how to avoid destructive behavior and practice constructive behavior while staying alive and encouraging the same in your children and neighbors. Those who view it as an exacting law book with technical boundaries to be determined precisely are not getting the intended benefit from it. Many of those try to skirt the boundaries as closely as possible and "get away with it" or try to use it to control other people's behavior while ignoring the more important heart and soul intentions behind those who "follow the rules" put before them.

It isn't all one-sided who is falsely using the Bible against God's intended purpose for it. The Bible is like a sharp knife, dividing "bone and marrow" and discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I digress. To sum up, I would say about the "live by the sword quote" that in current terms it would mean that "don't be surprised when soldiers get shot to death".

Why do Ron's words carry more

Why do Ron's words carry more weight than anyone in the republican party? Because he speaks the truth.

Want to own Ron's shirt? Tie? Book?

Ron & Carol Paul are helping us with our Storey County GOP fund raising. Carol sent us one of Ron's shirts, ties & autographed book. Go take a look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlHN4NQxnK4&feature=youtu.be

Prescient. Courageous. Honest.

All of the above.

ecorob's picture

Ron Paul is my President!

He is the bold truth that this country needs.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Laurence Vance @ LRC

A New Litmus Test
Posted by Laurence Vance on February 5, 2013 07:08 AM
I think Ron Paul's comment about Chris Kyle and living and dying by the sword is a great new litmus test. Those who are outraged by it are not libertarians, are not against the warfare state, are not against the U.S. empire, and are neither friends nor fellow travelers of the liberty movement.

Update: Some have said that while they disagree with U.S. foreign policy, it is going to far to call soldiers killers and murderers. On the one hand, I never said that. I said you reap what you sow. Ron Paul said if you live by the sword you die by the sword. Someone is putting words in my mouth. But on the other hand, what do you call U.S. soldiers who kill in unjust wars? What would we call foreigners who came over here and killed our families while they were trying to free us from our oppressive government?

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The Government Can Legally Kill You
Posted by Laurence Vance on February 5, 2013 07:00 AM
According to a new Justice Department memo. Where is Chris Kyle when we need him? Oh, I guess some other hero in uniform will do.

ecorob's picture

Its as simple as that!

Nothing more, nothing less. Don't make it complicated.

I think you make very astute observations.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Countries.

These guys attacked two countries that did nothing to us. What did Afghanistan do to us? Even if the official 911 story is correct I am still not sure what Afghanistan did to us. I have no idea what the official story is now on why we are over there.

Anyway, it's at least two countries that these guys went on their murdering spree around.

The perfect time is almost always 'right now'.

to say something when you witness injustice. Ron Paul was never afraid to speak out. Why should he stop now?

To paraphrase 'the tweet', "don't be surprised when someone who lives by killing dies by being killed".

why are pandas exempt from RICO statutes?

The people condemning the tweet here at the DP...

...are not doing so because they disagree with its content, but because they think it gave us bad press and is unhelpful politically.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."