-60 votes

Many DailyPaul Members Have Become NEOCONS

and/or hypocrites.

I would say that I hope that it works out for you, but then I would be lying.

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so since I am against

so since I am against homosexuality and abortion, does that make me a neocon?

seems to be

It does seem that way, but they are chaff anyway...

usblues11

from the ludwig von mises forum

Sukrit Posted: Fri, Nov 20 2009 1:05 AM

What good is it to win if you don't stand for anything? This is very disappointing.

BOWLING GREEN, KENTUCKY – Leading United States Senate candidate Rand Paul today criticized the Obama administration’s decision to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center and try terrorism suspects in United States Civil Courts.
“Foreign terrorists do not deserve the protections of our Constitution,” said Dr. Paul. “These thugs should stand before military tribunals and be kept off American soil. I will always fight to keep Kentucky safe and that starts with cracking down on our enemies.”

Lew Rockwell is right to stay away from the dirty business that is politics. Rand Paul deceived his supporters, and took money from them without telling them about his fundamental ideological differences with his more principled and honest father.

(((it's interesting & right on IMO that besides this the poster later in the thread wrote that this should not stop us for supporting him in the senate with some of his excellent voting and bills for instance against the FED.)))

Rand Paul should

stay in the Senate and work there. He is not 100%, but among the many he is one of the best up there. We need more local/state like him.

I will not support him for president. Unless he completely OVERHAULS his foreign policy, and a few other positions, which I do not see happening.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

DemoCRIPS and ReBLUBlicans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9bM_n2XNH8

"I, __________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_enlistment

There is no duration defined in the Oath

OMG....Fascist Much?

in reply to AnAppealtoHeavenWash down below:

You've got to be a Troll. You're so confused to think working outside the Republican party is pro-establishment. This is like 1984...Orwellian thinking. How is working inside the establishment going to change anything? That is their game...their rules. I'd put money down you voted for Mittens. Sounds like you suffer from an inflamed cased of two-partyitus. Someone needs to take some truth pills...just sayin'....

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

The only thing I will

The only thing I will contribute to this thread will be the point that we were taught by Ron Paul to question every thing and never fall in line. We were awakened by the truth and only the truth. We were not taught to "play games" or to try to "trick" people into liking us or our movements direction. That is the whole reason I joined this freedom movement, to speak the truth no matter if it was popular to the masses or not.
I see people here falling into that trap that all past movements have fallen to. The 'give a little to get a little' trap...
Problem is, once you give a little you are compromised as an individual and as a freedom movement fighter. You are no longer fighting for THE cause, but more so YOUR cause. You should take a second to look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what it is we are doing here? Are you compromising your principles for likeability and acceptance or are you actually standing up for what you believe in?

I think some here need to ask themselves these questions, including Ron's son, Rand.

ecorob's picture

I'm damn sure down with you...

surfmatt!

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Drive it home, brother. I'm along for the ride!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

jrd3820's picture

"Problem is, once you give a

"Problem is, once you give a little you are compromised as an individual"

Right.

"We were not taught to "play games" or to try to "trick" people into liking us or our movements direction."

Yup

Don't be afraid to contribute. The lion's den around here (on both sides of this argument), well.... they might seem scary but they are just really passionate and it's kind of cool to watch.

Oh, and I haven't seen you in the music thread in a while, just sayin.... Don't think I don't pay attention around there I know who is coming and going.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That'll teach you to keep your mouth shut. Hemingway

Hey Jrd! :) Ah, the music

Hey Jrd! :)

Ah, the music thread. I love that one :p
I've recently been on a real deep spiritual journey and haven't been on all that much. I'm just on a really calm cloud right now, so that's why I wasn't going to get into the whole bickering back in forth thing lol. Even if it is constructive, I don't have much of a need for it right now.

I understand the passion, I think we all have it, or we wouldn't even be here collaborating and sharing our ideas.

How have you been?

jrd3820's picture

Been really good

Glad to see you around.

I get the calm thing, I'm calm by nature so I don't always know what to do with myself around here. But, if you have something to say.... this is the place to say it. The people around here I don't agree with only make me stronger because then I know what I am up against. I watch these threads. I take notes, I cheerlead from behind my computer and I get mad sometimes, but it is necessary.

I will stop hijacking this thread now because I try not to hijack the more serious threads where people are trying to have actual conversations, but it is good to see you around.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That'll teach you to keep your mouth shut. Hemingway

Many DailyPaul members are chasing the Libertarian fantasy.

This foolishness that believes that a 3rd party can actually rise to power while the MSM labels the Libertarian Party as being for Abortion and getting off on Prostitution.

These fantasy filled big "L" Libertarians think that the government funded two party system can be overtaken with private funding of a 3rd party whose members are like cats running in every direction.

These day dreamers label everyone who joins the Republican Party a NEOCON while considering the ruthless murder of unborn children to be "good and wholesome".

I tell you the Libertarian Party was designed and financed by the establishment to never amount to anything... its sole purpose is to divide conservatives while giving the victory over to a minority of Democrats.

Those who abandon the Republican Party to siphon off the conservative vote work solely for the establishment.

.

Mark Twain

Mark Twain said it and is is almost like he had you in mind. To what am I referring? I refer to his brilliant observation:

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Do you have any idea who started the Libertarian Party? It was David Nolan and I can assure you that he was not financed by the "establishment."

Secondly, your infatuation with superstition (Bible) speaks volumes of your inability to understand the world around you.

I pity you and ask that you refrain from any additional silly postings here at the DP like the one to which I am replying. You are giving the liberty movement a bad name but perhaps that is your goal.

I am a Registered Republican.

I will vote the person, not the party.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Many Daily Paul members are...

...awakened former neocons...that's more factual.

Even more factual..

many have fallen back to sleep.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

lol

nobody "becomes" a neocon. - You're born that way (due to parental exposure). Hopefully you're able to grow out of it.

My Repsonse to the NEOCON thread :-)

Ron Paul faught for decades even when nobody listened. I do not know if he planned or believed that he would have affected so many people this late in his years, but the fact is, he did. WE woke up. To Liberty, the Constitution, Foreign Policy, Conservative Principles, and the list goes goes on.

When I fight for something, rest assured that it is because I gave it a tremendous amount of thought, and for all of the right reasons. I understand that we each have a path to follow and view the world in different ways. But I do believe that we agree on one thing; it is a duopoly that swings back and forth with no end in sight. In order to break that swing, we must continue the momentum that this Ron Paul r3VOLution has started. If we do not, then it will be a dying and forgotten fad, and will be decades at the very minimum before a force as strong as us has another chance.

I have said before that president is merely a figure head, even if Ron Paul were at the helm. We must first work toward Liberty within ourselves, and then on to local and state. It is the power of us that supercedes any elected official. It is only then that we can fend off federal legislation effectively, and efficiently. Even had Ron been president, we still have legislators who are on the take, and the masses who couldn't care less.

romney did not hold the same principles that Ron Paul or we espoused. He was republican. The gop/rnc supported him. He had the dollars. He probably would have even won if all of us got behind him. But we refused to let that happen, and for damned good reason. Had we not, we would have potentially sent the signal that all was right with this Republic and it may have gone on for another 8 years. Had that happened, America would be even further entrenched which would have handed it back to the democrats for another who knows how long.

Enter Rand. He is a good man. But the problem with Rand is, he is NOT educating the American people about the very things that are wrong with this nation. How do we continue Ron Paul's, no, OUR legacy, that meddling into foreign affairs is fundamentally wrong? How do we bridge the gap with other nations to open up trade routes, or have wings and beer with their leaders, explaining why Liberty will create prosperity among their nations? How do we *enforce* our natural-born God-given Bill of Rights when Rand and others push feinstein-lee which was worse than the original? How do the American people learn the truth?

So, if the cards are in his favor, Rand has a slight chance in hell to beat hillary in 2016. Will the American people have learned anything? Or will they become just as frustrated and elect yet another democrat come 2020. And then that sets us back another how many more years.

Justin Amash is on the horizon. It's in my sig. Do I believe that he could win IF he should run? Stranger things have happened, so I can not and will not answer that question. But my goal is this: if we give Justin the attention that he deserves, more people may wake up to the fact that we are still in this fight to win - not just for presidency, but FOR LIBERTY. He will tell the truth to the American people. He will gain tremendous support of the youth. He will gain support of the true Conservatives outside of this movement. Others will see Justin as somebody who matters, and hopefully use him as the standard to hold their own Congresspeople, Senators and Reps. Is Justin the only person who I would support for president? Absolutely not. If there is another Liberty candidate who espouses our message, such as JUDGE ANDREW NAP, potentially Massie, and/or others, I will gladly support him/her 1000%.

I have told you before that my father and I love each other very much. He does the fatherly thing and brags about me whenever he can. We fix and repair things, hang out, and have a lot of fun together. But we DO NOT see eye to eye on politics. Yes, he raised me and my siblings (who are also Liberty), but that is where it ends. After harsh bickering back and forth, and then calling it quits, we make up and break bread together. There is no question in my mind that Ron, Rand, and their entire family love each other very much. But politically, they are NOT the same. Is it any of our business? Though I pray only good things for ALL of the Paul family, it is none of my business, nor is it a consideration for who I will suport.

So, where do I go from here? I will continue to educate others who have not been paying attention, or misled by msm. I will work locally and branch out as I have been doing. Whoever the president is should not matter, if there is enough Liberty at the local and state. But when somebody points a finger at me telling me what Rand has done concerning foreign policy, NDAA, and other things where I am not in agreement, I will simply tell them the truth, and explain that I do not agree with whatever position(s) he may take. Do we win in 2016? My goal is yes; through local and state, nullification is the rightful remedy, along with telling the TRUTH. Winning for the sake of winning serves no purpose, unless it is for the right reason. I will NEVER compromise or sacrifice my principles, or nothing will have been learned.

Wow, I think I just broke Grangers record, lol :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

I completely agree with you PAF.

I am so disappointed with DPers on their blind support of Rand.

As you stated, Ron courageously worked indefatigably for decades not compromising his principles in Washington. This is such an amazing feat. It is hard to explain how amazing that is. And it finally paid off for him. Ron's last few years spreading the message was incredible, but what makes Ron such an American hero is not the last five years, it is the 25 years that he worked, all by himself, combating the lure of power. He never compromised his principles in all those years.

So in walks Rand, he only got elected because his last name is Paul. It was very obvious that he has not done his homework like his dad before the election. He did not know the difference between a debt and a deficit, let alone knowing the minute details of the Austrian school. He was at least humble at first though. But within two years he has compromised nearly every principle. He let the power corrupt him. Which is normal. It takes a very very special person to not fall into it. But, dear lord, why can't the DPers see it? They are blinded by our success so far. They just want that POTUS position so bad that they will settle for anyone with the last name Paul. I know it is hard to except that Ron has retired but, good lord, this is insanity. Nearly everyday we see Rand succumbing to the power. He now is advocating preemptive war with Israel's enemies. He is not even comparable to Jim Demint anymore. He could have taken the torch that it took his dad 30 years to make glow so brightly and really been a hero. He could have taken those thirty pure years and made them forty. Then we would have won. The entire world would have won. But no, he has already squandered that opportunity. He squandered it because, as he puts it, "I like the ring of hearing President Paul". He really believes that he is ready to be POTUS after a couple of years in the Senate. Not even Obama was that cocky. He just had and elite group tell him he was it and that was that. Rand does not have people pushing him, we all know. He is an outsider. But for some reason he doesn't know that.

But that is what power does to most people. It makes them bigger than life. It makes them corrupt and mad.

Let the down-voting commence.

brilliant post dducks

what a number of people are thinking, but you laid it out brilliantly and honestly, and i applaud you for doing so.
i will watch for your future posts.

jrd3820's picture

dducks

I enjoy your comments.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That'll teach you to keep your mouth shut. Hemingway

Who has blind support for Rand?

I've been accused of having blind support for Rand, so (((((((ducky))))) I believe that gives me permission to respond.

Unlike many in congress, Ron Paul is not an attorney. He saw himself a messanger and busied himself with business ventures that interested him. For decades, the majority of Americans had no clue who he was. When he ran for president in 1988 under the LP banner, there was tons of resentment within the party, he had been a Republican and Russle Means was the LP people's choice because RP was pro-life, and the LP is pro-choice.

It is Ron Paul's past 5 years of working to get his message heard through the GOP presidential elections that gave him a fan club. It's not that he does not have an impressive history, it's that that history is his, and not shared with millions of adoring fans globally as it is now.

Rand has been groomed and vetted for politics since he was born. He didn't just walk in. He worked on his father's campaigns, networked and studied politics.

How do you materialize a message? How do we get from being messangers to materializers? Why was Ron Paul remaining in the GOP when clearly his support was not from the GOP?

I do not see Rand "succumbing" to power. I see Rand as brilliant, and I am learning a great deal from him. For example, when Rand said that, "the USA needs to employ diplomacy and trade first, and then ALL options are on the table." People here say.. "Well, he's for pre-emptive war." What these people seem to not understand is by using diplomacy first, pre-emptive war is eliminated. Pre-emptive war is refusing to use diplomacy. So saying all options are on the table after diplomacy.. it does not include pre-emptive war by design.

What is the point of having a message you have no way to materialize?

Rand is teaching us HOW to materialize Ron Paul's message within the GOP, a corrupt Party that as Ron Paul said, "Has lost it's way" (but he remained within).

Those who HATE the GOP, HATE Rand. The Neocons hate Rand because they know he is eliminating Bush doctorine/ pre-emptive war. The rest of the GOP like Rand because he is educating them by standing for conservative values they appreciate. Those who are under the influence of MSM, HATE the GOP, HATE Rand because he is GOP. They don't even want to understand or learn from Rand because he is hurting their own interests.. The Libertarian Party, for example, who hoped to ride on Ron Paul's coat tails, HATE Rand Paul. They want the liberty movement aligned with the LABLE "Libertarian", because they profit off that lable. Rand is reducing them back to the "marijuana party".

So to me, those who HATE Rand, are not learning. They have decided that they are the new messangers not the materializers. They will educate the public. That's swell.

Rand is materializing the message, working within the establishment. This is fantastic. I'm preparing to go to my State GOP convention.. I am a delegate, so I'm getting tons of emails from those who are running for offices.. The message of Liberty is prevailing.. I'm reading candidates tell me about how we need to restore the republic, return to conservative values, audit the state's part in the federal reserve.. it's a fight.. Karl Rove is going to give a speach promoting his new PAC designed to "keep the incumbants". So to say that those of us who joined the GOP to become delegates for Ron Paul and now have seats with voting power we intend to use to out the likes of Rove. What a huge insult.

Ron Paul gave us a message that materialized into a foundation for us to politically build on IN THE GOP. Some in the liberty movement want to replace one form of corruption and force with their own in the name of liberty. I'm completely opposed to this. Rand is teaching us how to use diplomacy with integrity and he's up against some of the meanest most ruthless men alive, and that includes those who LOVE his father's message, but have NO intention in materializing it.

With friends like that.. who needs Rove, eh? PAF is doing a better job than Rove because it's an inside job. You join PAF?

I still LOVE you both, though I believe time is going to proove me and Rand the good guys.

Twisted logic.

"Those who HATE the GOP, HATE Rand."

Speaking for myself, that is the furthest thing from the truth.

"Rand is reducing them back to the "marijuana party".

You and OldNo.7J.D. [who dismisses Justin because "Justin Amash is on the GOP's craplist right now."] seem to have a very strong desire to make this believable.

"Rand is materializing the message"

A message that misleading is ok? To not inform the American people of the truth? That feistein-lee would have been in the best interest of Americans when in fact it was worse?

"How do we get from being messangers to materializers?"

By continuing to speak the truth. And by promoting only those who speak the truth to the American people. Americans do not understand 'chess moves' in politics, and I firmly refuse to play along with that so-called strategy. IF, and that is a BIG IF, that is what Rand is doing, which I do not believe he is.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

((((PAF)))) Admits he LOVES Rand and the GOP. Finally

I knew you had it in you (((((PAF))))))) If hating Rand and the GOP is the furthest thing from the truth... that would mean you LOVE them. So it's me then you hate?

Let's not forget Rand is who is working to make cannabis hemp legal. I have been a hemp activist since 1992. I have four medals 1999, Y2K and 01 from the American Culinary Federation in Vegan and Vegetarian foods, ALL using Hemp. The medical marijauan industry has threatened me and those like me, done everything they could to bury us.. and as mush sympathy as I have for thiose who are sick and need help.. I think help is a solution for a planet that is sick and needs help, people who need work and Americans that need products.

Amash is great. Too bad he's not on TV everyday, writting legislation that's making headline news, but one day he might.

Rand is not the messanger, Ron and you are. You do your jobs and Rand and those of us in the GOP will do our, working with what we;ve got, respectablly and materializing YOUR message. Excuse us if how we are doing this is not a perfect ideal for you, but the party and politics is not ideal. We work with what we have.

Waving signs is not going to change the GOP. Voting for Liberty candidates to control the GOP is how we do it, and we're up against some mean folks who LOVE Bush doctorine, LOVE tha bankers, son't wnt an audit. My committee refuses to hand me the books, refuses to support me to the convention.. They make it very hard, and it's YOUR words they will use against me, not Roves.

"Amash is great. Too bad he's not on TV everyday"

"Amash is great. Too bad he's not on TV everyday"

If you ever learned a thing from Ron and what this nation was built on.. Supply and Demand. So, WE must make it happen.

"we're up against some mean folks"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Bwjk2s8oU

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Rand is filling my demand to restore the republic in the GOP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmXLGKdkW4

Nice to know Amash is backing us and folks like you will deliver the message while we materialize it.

((((Granger))))

You missed the point of my post and the video that I linked above.

Here is a strong suggestion, which is more powerful than any gop/rnc:

If you want to win 2016, select a Conservative Liberty candidate. Otherwise, see the video that I linked above again ;-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Rand is a conservative Liberty candidate

Are you calling me "Maverick"?

Nope. He is not Liberty.

Nope. Again.

Granger, please try to reach out your feelings. It may be difficult, but I have some faith that you can.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul