65 votes

Elitism is creeping into the Daily Paul

I've been a long time reader and very infrequent contributer so take what I say with a grain of salt:

The very idea that I am 'afraid' to post this because of the reaction I will get proves my point to myself.

Not all of us are as Libertarian as _____ and that SHOULD be ok. Disagreement is an opprotunity to educate, not exclude.

It seems that the commonalities we share are Liberty, Freedom, peace and a quest for wisdom. Let us return to these.

I know its hard but instead of having pissing contests to see who is 'more Libertarian' or excluding people because they dont meet enough of the 'requirements,' lets build on the solid foundations that we all supposedly share.

These are times when unity is VITAL - there are times for bickering and times for agreement.

This is a time for agreement. Let us press on together.

United we stand, divided we fall.

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jrd3820's picture

My thoughts for the evening

There is nothing wrong with the elitists. There is nothing wrong with the extremists or the purists.
There is nothing wrong with the conspiracy theorists, the preppers, the sandy hookers, or the gun owners.
There is nothing wrong with the anarchists or the minarchists or the vulture capitalists.
There is nothing wrong te atheists or the hardcore Christians or the Buddhists.

They all have the right to be exactly how they are. And you have the right to not deal with the ones you do not want to deal with. Some of them piss me off sometimes, but then I just avoid them for a while.

Let the elitists make you stronger. Turn it into a competition and win.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

Love that, jrd!

You never let me down. You had the best thread on DP and now the best comment too!

Dissent is important

A dissenting voice brings perspective to the conversation. Without dissent, we are just a group of "yes (wo)men". Nobody learns anything in a group of "yes (wo)men"

The founders would be ashamed at us for what we are putting up with.


There is enough of a divisive culture out there without bringing it here. Let us do as RP says & debate the issues rather than engage in personal attacks. I get that enough on FB for my political posts! ;-)

You're a dummy!!! j/k :P

You're a dummy!!! j/k :P

Seriously people who complain about political posts on fb piss me off. There is a unfriend button.. there is an option to remove someone from your news feed.. there are avenues people can take to rid themselves from viewing my posts. There is absolutely no reason vocalize your unhappiness with the content I share on MY WALL!! They are free to share their opinions on the content I share but to complain about the variety of the subject matter is lame.. (stop posting about politics, stop bashing Obama lol)

Even after a year with DP

I still haven't a clue what a Libertarian is.

Joη's picture

"I tried helping them, I tried not helping them, but in the end

I couldn't do them any good!

"You underestimate the character of man." | "So be off now, and set about it." | Up for a game?

Libertarianism is the philosophy of liberty

Libertarianism is the philosophy of liberty


Fancy Shmancy Fine Print:

A political system based on the

right of individual sovereignty over majority rule.


Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People v. The Banks."


for the fail.


"The world has never known more oppressive governments or bigger governments than those which profess the cult of liberty." - Donald Sanborn



Bound to happen

with this being an intellectual revolution and all. Patience certainly is a virtue, specially when dealing with those who are asleep. We have to remember that some are only half awake, and/or haven't been following this movement or site for long. Then again, we do have the trolls. Good post andy!

I disagree. I have found DP

I disagree. I have found DP to be very accepting of just about any old thing someone wants to post. Sure, people will debate you, mostly in good spirit though you will get that occasional person that will name call or some other annoying tactic. But mostly people here are open to sharing ideas and information from every angle - that's why I like it here. If you don't believe this place is pretty tolerant then you ought to check out Redstate or Daily kos to see what intolerant and closed minded group think is all about.

I agree.

Nothing has bothered me more than the vote up and down option instead of a civilized response. It is absolutely counter productive and intellectually lazy.

If you have a problem with a post, do the poster a favor as a member of a community and tell them why you disagree or counter their argument in a respectful manner.

Are we children?

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

Yes, when I am voted down without a comment sometimes I am left

wondering why. I would rather know why someone doesn't agree with me. Then that way I can make a decision as to whether I am off base or need to rethink my position. Or perhaps rephrase my position if I was not clear and there was a misunderstanding.

I agree with your comment

But it's not the upvote without comment I find annoying - it's the downvote without commenting that irks me. I get downvoted and am left wondering what I wrote that someone disagreed with. I call those uncommenting downvoters cowards and think they have no idea why they downvoted but just did because of some 'feeling' but never examined that feeling enough to understand why. We're supposed to use our brains to understand and formulate our words for honest debate, not hit arrows for no reason whatsoever.
I've seen some blogs just have upvote capability and others with no vote capability. But there should be no downvote capability without an explanation because that leaves the poster in the dark.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

jrd3820's picture

You call the unexplained downvoters cowards?

I affectionately call them my fan club.

Sometimes it's as simple as they don't like you. I wouldn't worry about it, you can't please them all.

“I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living.”
― Dr. Seuss

I think the

vote system is suppose to be a bit shallow. There's a lot of stuff to read here and old posts get covered up quickly. It is a bit of a "feeling" button, but if it wasn't easy then you might not get any feedback on small ideas or subtle differences in perspectives. Also, for the differences in opinion kind of debate, I don't see a lot of down votes on the DP.

I, my self, like to save my down votes for special occasions, but I tend to be more liberal with the plus. So, how do we separate the benefits of a shallow voting system from some of its short comings?

We are all in this together..

I agree with the OP. I have noticed different small factions within the daily paul and the liberty movement for quite some time now. I think Ron Paul recognizes this as he has said many times that his appeal reaches across many political, social, and ideological spectrums. As much as I don't like constant arguing, I think it is very healthy since we all come from a wide variety of places and ideas. What I can't stand is intolerance against alternative viewpoints, which is the talk of "we need to kick out so and so because they aren't enough this or that, or support Rand or whoever" We can't survive by removing people from the movement.. this is exactly why the GOP establishment is bleeding support and can no longer compete in the elections.

Andy Saves The Day! Thank

Andy Saves The Day! Thank you!


maybe if you we're a true libertarian who hated the government you'd be able to spell

Thank you for posting

You are correct in your gut feelings and your post proves I was too Glad I am not alone in my thinking

"The Universe may not always play fair but at least it's got a sense of humor" ;) - Michael Patrick King

I consider myself a 'social libertarian'

Education has been socialized in this country since the beginning. I also think that socialized medicine can work, but we need to adjust our ethics to include the will of the patient. I also understand that free market principles have to remain applied to the healthcare system, or innovation will grind to a halt. Even though many libertarians will disagree with me, its ok. I'll still defend your God given rights.

You act as if socialized education has worked...

As a product of private school and then home study, I can tell you it hasn't. Like evey other socialized product, it has always been in steady decline. In a free market, some win big and some lose big. In socialized anything, everyone slowly loses. Welcome to the free market.

Socialism tends to bribery and violent enforcement.

Some 50 Million were killed in the Soviet Union to prove that socialism was workable. But it was a deadly dream to any who disagreed. In the end it failed.

Yuri Maltsev tells one of many cautionary tails.

Free includes debt-free!

That the thing

I think that voluntary socialism on local levels can work. Like a food bank.

Isms define the lord or ruling thought.

Where society is lord, socialism is at work.

However, voluntary association can do good works.

I am all for being civil and social.

Free includes debt-free!


One of the first things that struck me about Dr Paul was that he said the role of government was to protect liberty. I'd already been well acquainted with the socialist view that the role of government should be to provide for it's citizens and blah blah blah. I saw this ideology failing the same type of people that were pleading for more of it. It's a system of buying votes with other people's money. But, was capitalism better? Both just seam to be preambles to communism and corporatism. It had me convinced that the only virtuous role of government would be to just displace a worst form of government. But Dr. Paul's summation really struck me. It was such a clear, concise and self consistent principle. Protect liberty, that's it. If I had one opportunity to thank Dr.Paul it would be for these words. They demuddled a bunch of thoughts that I hadn't yet been able to articulate so concisely. It was like stumbling onto a physics formula that perfectly defined some natural phenomenon. I'm convinced that protecting liberty is the only appropriate role of government. In contrast to a lot of people, I don't see any befits to having either capitalism or socialism embedded in government at all. I don't like this left/right dichotomy crap. They have their virtues in society, but not in the hands of the state. They must be voluntary engagements of free people.


"Dedicated to restoring Constitutional government to the United States of America" .
I would hope that those who come here see that as the long range goal of learning and sharing information . That what we say and do moves in that direction as much as possible, while also pointing out the pain and frustration of living under the heavy load of unconstituional legislation, court rulings and executive orders. If regard and respect for the Constitution is not our common aim, then I assert "we" have nothing in common for which to rally around and respectfully fight for together. These sovereign states and the peoples thereof are under the constant threat of the growing tyranny of overreaching federal and executive power.
Restoration starts by getting back to the blueprint and casting off all the chains and implements against the liberty which the ratifiers had intended for the people to enjoy.
Know this: the Constitution is HATED by all who want to collect and use power for private interests. But loved by all who believe the people should own there own bodies and make their own choices of conscience. I may redistribute my wealth and possesions as I see fit, but I shall not coerce others to .

With all due respect, I will no longer be a voting prostitute for Constitution rejecting harlots.