65 votes

Elitism is creeping into the Daily Paul

I've been a long time reader and very infrequent contributer so take what I say with a grain of salt:

The very idea that I am 'afraid' to post this because of the reaction I will get proves my point to myself.

Not all of us are as Libertarian as _____ and that SHOULD be ok. Disagreement is an opprotunity to educate, not exclude.

It seems that the commonalities we share are Liberty, Freedom, peace and a quest for wisdom. Let us return to these.

I know its hard but instead of having pissing contests to see who is 'more Libertarian' or excluding people because they dont meet enough of the 'requirements,' lets build on the solid foundations that we all supposedly share.

These are times when unity is VITAL - there are times for bickering and times for agreement.

This is a time for agreement. Let us press on together.

United we stand, divided we fall.



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I am sovereign, I am King

Each of us are our own free masters, we are a King by our own right, which is why the founders did not allow nobility titles, it would only lower our status.

Do queens and kings of other households argue? Of course! But we are united as one in order to keep our freedom, and not be slaves to another. We do take servants, they are our publics servants who give up nobility to protect us.

This is the way it should be. We must return to it. Elite? No, but I am a King, as it is the birthright of every American.

everytime I hear the word elitism

... I smell a rat. My headmaster used that word when describing the need for more socialist agendas ie helping the disadvanatged and those less fortunate or bascially pushing dumb kids through under the guise of fighting elitism.

I often use the word elites to describe our current tyrants because other words won't be politically correct.

Boys will be boys

Ok lets serve tea as the titanic is sinking.

What do you expect from those who are alive alert and awake. Not to menton that this site becomes a huge bullseye target for the underling debt slaves who serve the criminal bank mafia family.

So its a microcosim of reality and its very good to see. Now if you suggest we all ban togeather and make some rule or law you miss the entire point of liberty, I am sovereign.

Best to either ignore those who upset you and reason with those that you can tolerate.

Block those who are hopeless to communicate with, for you.

sovereign

jrd3820's picture

"Boys will be boys"

That sums it up quite nicely from my point of view as a female. Some might find it to be elitism or extremism or purism or fill in the blank but make sure to put an "ism" at the end of the word you choose.

I find it to be testosterone running high.

The power

The first amendment isn't defended by holding up a piece of paper, and it isn't crushed by tearing up a piece of paper.

Joe

Elitist? Nah

I sometimes feel it's more like the adult has left the house (Ron Paul's Influence) and the kids are left home alone. (Us) and there is no more supervision or focus so all the kids bicker.

skippy

deacon's picture

EricHoffer told me this

"Haha, it's kind of funny, we spend so much time fighting on these boards that we forget that we probably agree 97% of the time, it's just the 3% of the time that we REALLY vehemently disagree that colors the conversation".
from that point on,i see things a lot differently,and try to
remember we are all in this together
we should not be eating our own
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

JustLiberty4US's picture

Andy, I appreciate your post.

Andy, I appreciate your post. However, some of your criticism is exactly why I love the DP. Yes, it might be annoying that some don't think that Rand is "pure" enough. Others love Rand. I read both perspectives.

Sometimes, I too, really like Rand, other times, he makes bad decisions. But as far as I know, there's only been one perfect man to walk the earth.

Yes, I also read your post below and know that you weren't necessarily referring to Rand. He's just an easy example.

The people who post and come to the DP probably would go elsewhere if there was only a monolithic perspective.

Finally, post more often. You already have 22 up votes!

bumping--

purists?

Hmmm--

Not sure what is meant by 'elitist', because I'm using a 10 year old computer--

and my life is definitely NOT elite--:)

*wink*

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

No.7's picture

bump, awesome post. I'm tired of the purists too

I guess I'm a mudblood half Libertarian because I'm pro life. No freedom to kill babies, so I must be a neocon sellout like Rand Paul right??

We're supposed to welcome new people and share our views, not impose our views and enforce those views with belligerent all caps comments calling them names

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

Thanks for mentioning the misues of labels

I find labels matter, however I see how ineffective they can be when used by people who don't define terms.

Neocon.

It's the boogeyman around here. I consider it to be the equivalent of the liberty movement as the Red Scare was to McCarthyites. It is also frequently taken out of context. Being pro-life does not make you a neocon as the term isn't defined by your abortion stance.

However, if your paramount principle is that America has the moral high ground and thus we must maintain our military presence around the globe, you might be on the right path.

Words matter. Get to know your labels before you blanket them against everyone who disagrees with you.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

No.7's picture

I disavowed labels but used the label "purist" at the same time

It's hard to use labels correctly when everyone has different definitions for their labels. While neoconservative may have a definition, it means many different things to different people.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

jrd3820's picture

Purists

I drink my coffee black sir

:)

Belligerent all caps comments? Yeah... I get it.

No.7's picture

I totally took those words from you

Hope you don't mind, but the term "belligerent all caps comments" was too true not to share. Not to say that I haven't been the all caps guy before, I'm not perfect and there isn't a good excuse.

You're the type of person I wish would argue with me every day. You make your arguments in a friendly eloquent way that helps me understand where your coming from and learn something in the process. Your input is much appreciated, especially when you disagree :)

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

jrd3820's picture

lol

Of course I don't mind!

I hope I have been exemplifying some "humility"....

...I've been through my own personal hell since joining this movement back in the fall of 2007(now, reaping what I've sown from my 38 years while in ignorance)....now, I'm going for broke talking to my smartphone and sharing my heart with you people....when: Matthew 12:34 happens ... "for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."

Unless there is a plan in place to stop the Israel-first Judeo-Christian ethicist ruse that blinds the Republicans that have been publicly educated that the faith of our founders is too brash, too black/white, psychologically harmful to children in it's tenets that say "do not" lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, compromise, keep company with immoral or amoral persons or organizations....then SOMEBODY ought to rise up and resurrect that standard fearlessly; because this nation's founding and subsequent prosperity that followed for the next 2 or 3 generations PROVED that the laws of Nature and of Nature's God where profitable unto all men in a free society that would laud them and willingly obey them in both their personal and public lives.

I could have waited until I was done reaping all that I've sown, in my past years(when I knew none of these things); but my spirit senses the urgency of the hour! We can't put it off until 2016, and hope the electorate realizes the mistake they made passing up on Dr. Paul twice...the PTB are digging in, and their apologists are distracting us until the troops arrive and take their posts!

We KNOW what it is we have to "throw off"; it's a matter of whether or not we have the COURAGE to call it what it is, while we're still FREE to express ourselves publicly...since we can't get past the neo-con talking heads' call screeners...

Elitism or Identification?

I don't see the disagreements as "elitist" at all because no one is copping out of an argument simply on the basis of being "better" or "more libertarian."

If you're referring to the Rand Paul debate that happens in almost every Rand post (and deservedly so, I believe) - people are questioning - not the degree to which Rand Paul is a Libertarian, but WHETHER he is a libertarian at all.

He supports Israel.
He supports pre-emptive acts of war.
He supported the Federal Reserve/Goldman Sachs Candidate.

That's not an Elitist copout. Those are serious questions about someone who has no problem courting Libertarians AND Neocons. That's a recipe for DISASTER as we've seen in many idealistic politicians.

No - this is not elitist.
This is a discussion that MUST be had.

Libertarianism is the future, not NeoConservative War Mongering.

I see what you are saying, but..(in response to Samuel, above;)

The problem I can't get past in your scenario is that it leaves out what I believe to be the "elitist attitude overall" that the original poster is addressing. I also have been a "victim"- yuck I hate that word!- of said, "elitism". It did happen to me on a "Rand Paul thread" but that is only a coincidence in my opinion because unfortunately it's going to occur more on "devisive" threads in general. I can see why you would identify the two together as being only a form of tough "questioning", but What I (and I think the op?)feel is deserving of the "elitist" tag has nothing to do with asking hard, honest questions and getting hard, honest answers back. It is being "bullied" and getting the feeling you are not "being listened to" and being afraid of being pounced on for (OMG - the humanity!) having the balls to have a thought that you want to share that is divergent of the "group" and wanting to have an honest exchange of ideas to learn and grow from others in order to have the most information avaialble to make an informed decision and then, being slapped in the face for your efforts. That to me is what I think I am referring to as the "elitist" attitude. Upon further review though, they may just be dicks.
Peace light and love to all ;)!

"The Universe may not always play fair but at least it's got a sense of humor" ;) - Michael Patrick King

I see what you are saying, but..(in response to Samuel, above;)

The problem I can't get past in your scenario is that it leaves out what I believe to be the "elitist attitude overall" that the original poster is addressing. I also have been a "victim"- yuck I hate that word!- of said, "elitism". It did happen to me on a "Rand Paul thread" but that is only a coincidence in my opinion because unfortunately it's going to occur more on "devisive" threads in general. I can see why you would identify the two together as being only a form of tough "questioning", but What I (and I think the op?)feel is deserving of the "elitist" tag has nothing to do with asking hard, honest questions and getting hard, honest answers back. It is being "bullied" and getting the feeling you are not "being listened to" and being afraid of being pounced on for (OMG - the humanity!) having the balls to have a thought that you want to share that is divergent of the "group" and wanting to have an honest exchange of ideas to learn and grow from others in order to have the most information avaialble to make an informed decision and then, being slapped in the face for your efforts. That to me is what I think I am referring to as the "elitist" attitude. Upon further review though, they may just be dicks.
Peace light and love to all ;)!

"The Universe may not always play fair but at least it's got a sense of humor" ;) - Michael Patrick King

honestly im not concerned with Rand

Im concerned that opprotunities for people desperate for an understanding of Liberty and Freedom are being squandered and bridges are being burned unnecessarily just because an individual didnt pass the litmus test to get admitted into the 'club.'

The Founding Fathers had STRONG disagreements on a regular basis and they found (mostly) constructive ways to utilize them and moved on to establish a firm foundation.

I agree a discussion is needed - so long as we remember the foundations we are striving to preserve.

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle."

Dude! That is what I'm talkin bout! -

You said it mister! I don't know how to "upvote" and all that other newfangled techie stuff or believe you me I'd sure do it!

keep on truckin my friend

"The Universe may not always play fair but at least it's got a sense of humor" ;) - Michael Patrick King

"I refuse to participate in

"I refuse to participate in the system, look how non-compromising I am!"

Unity is nice.....

And I agree, but this is a political site and there will be trolls out there intentionally trying to disunite. Some times it's hard to distinguish between. Sadly it is just part of the -constitution- of things.....

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm-

What the? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTIwY3_-ks

Well said

I'm glad that we have debates about libertarian political/economic theory, but when they're over we need to all be on the same team.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Your gripe wasn't Libertarian

Your gripe wasn't Libertarian enough so I didn't read all of it.

Southern Agrarian

Lol?

Lol?

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle."

The message is important and it's worth fighting over

I don't want someone that's on the downside of Libertarian to run as leader and I won't sit here quietly while some that promote those lesser Libertarian ideas speak up.

I am willing to die for my libertarian beliefs so a little arguing isn't that big of a deal.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Dudes

Everyone below: why so cynical?

Start supporting your local contenders who refuse to be purchased.

It's going to revert back to local players when the bond bust happens.

You want safety in numbers...start saturating your districts.

#geoLOVE

That's something

That's something constructive.

Screw Politics and Screw Voting

I come here to communicate with like minded people and becasue RP is what lead to my awakening. Until we can figure out a way to get the criminals out of DC using some other method than particapting in a rigged voting system and return our country to its constitutional republic roots...I'll spend my time trying to spread the message of freedom and liberty...not waste it uniting people behind another campaign that has no chance against the moneychangers and multi-national corps that have turned our country into a corporate fascist state operating under some weird style of inverted totalitarian rule.

But, thats just me :)