24 votes

I don't understand...

I don't understand why being atheist, anarchist, and/or protector of liberty you stand on the positive for the killing of infants through abortion.

I am pro choice too. You can choose to have the baby or give the baby up for adoption.

Sick of it.

Edit: Because people seem to be talking about this (I am glad; I didn't expect anyone, just was ranting), I am going to propose my argument against abortion as an anarchist and atheist.

The quick and dirty version (probably out of order haven't fleshed all this out):
P: Property rights are to be respected.
P: Your body is property that you own.
P: You own your body because you grow your body.
P: The mother helps you grow your body like watering a plant.
P: The mother is holding on to your property until you become sentient enough to take ownership of it.
P: The mother cannot destroy what is rightfully yours.
P: Profit?? LOL
C: Abortion is not permissible.

I know this is not in the correct format or whatever. I'm not an expert on logic or philosophy. I think you can understand what I am getting out here though. I haven't heard it anywhere else and I thought of it on my own (Was really proud of myself haha).

Do you like my the rough draft of my argument?

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so you choose force.

noted. it's been tried before without success.

edit: here's an article on the subject. you might agree with it.


I think that people who do

I think that people who do evil should face the law. Everyone who does something wrong believes that they are in the right -- they had a right to do it. The question isn't whether the law ought to have any teeth, it should have, but what the law should be. The state isn't bad in and of itself, nor is the power of the state, only who controls it.

about the nature of the state

we could argue all night! but, i'll stick to the main topic.

i agree laws against murder should have teeth. for everybody. cops and all. but, there are ideologies to get past first. many people don't view abortion as evil. so to pass laws that they don't agree with (and this is a large portion of the populace) is the wrong way to go about it, in my opinion. because it won't stop the problem. i'm not saying i have a solution; i'm not sure there is one. even if the majority was in agreement about murder being wrong, it would still occur. like it does, now.

i don't know the answer, but i know it's not more government. all i can do is not have an abortion. which i won't, cause i think it's wrong.

A lot of people don't think

A lot of people don't think government redistribution is evil, even though a lucid person would call it stealing. It isn't a matter of opinion; terminating a human life is exactly that.


but does knowing this stop it? it takes convincing, because they don't consider a fetus a human life. they have to be convinced that it's murder first, and i'm not sure a prison sentence would accomplish that.

Even if we change the law,

Even if we change the law, the state will need to act when the law is broken. We don't need to convince anyone, we need to prosecute. I don't think a prison sentence makes much sense, in fact I disagree with the concept of prison.

I think in this case a fine would be in order. Many abortions are committed for economic reasons, "we just can't afford it", and a fine would take away that disincentive to have the child. Of course, the parents could still give away the child, and be reimbursed the price of the medical bills by the adopting party.

If the mother/father want to avoid having to go through the birth of a baby, then they should keep their genitals separate, or take birth control measures.

this is

a reasonable solution, i think. it hurts most when hit in the pocket book.

You do not understand the use of force

The use of force is absolutely necessary!
The NAP just means to not cause harm against others unless someone is causing harm to you, someone else, or property. The type of force used is directly proportional to the value of the property.

Life = the highest property and your own life is the highest property (unless you put someone else's life above your own).

Pretty simple. So yes. Use much force against people that do abortion. Whether that be through a business that uses force for violations of contracts or government.

You own your body. The child in a body owns his or her body. I protect life, and will use force if necessary.

i know this was meant for me.

i think you're gonna have a hard time convincing people who believe in abortion about this. but, that's who you need to convince.

i don't know why your mad at me. i've never killed anyone.

to your edit above:
i think there's a problem when a pregnant woman can be viewed as nothing more than a vessel. she's a person, too! that's who you need to convince into non-aggression. change minds, and you can change the law. i don't believe force is the answer.

You responded to me, and I

You responded to me, and I agree with you and said much the same. I think you meant to comment to the other person.


Must have hit that reply button so fast and furious my argument guns were drawn and collateral damage occurred. It was an acceptable outcome though. LOL