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What's the main problem? What's the solution? What are YOUR thoughts?

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What's the main problem? What's the solution? What are YOUR thoughts?

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Problem: Government - their power is ALWAYS under threat of violence.
Solution: Agorism / self governance

Love or fear? Chose again with every breath.

It's the Federal Reserve system

All paths lead back to it.

I agree 100%

All wars In the US back to the The American Revolutionary War.They have always been about who gets to control the money.

Common sense is not very common.


The people who understand the problem are peaceful.

The people creating the problem are not.

The main problem is this....

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it's laws". Mayer Amschel Rothschild

The other main problem is this-

The liberty movement will not reform Washington period, they are just too entrenched. Change does not come from Washington, change can only come from the people themselves.

The solution is secession.


"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

The main problem is fear.

The main problem is fear.

Too many people want big daddy govt. to take care of them because they fear the alternative. They need not fear the alternative of course, but they've been subjected to the fear propaganda all of their lives - from govt., the media, their teachers, etc...

The solution, like others have said, is love. Love and a whole lot of patient education.

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

"Love Is Not Enough"

Is the title of a brilliant essay by economist David Friedman, which refutes your solution. Read it here, beginning down on page 12 of the book. (Third essay in Part I)

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Love, as I'm using the word,

Love, as I'm using the word, is acting in harmony with that which is good, not just for me but for the world.

If I am a publisher, and I trade my services to you for money so that you can publish your book on NAP, then I am acting in harmony with that which is good, but if I do the same for a second author who is advocating using the force of govt to achieve ends then, while I may be feeding my family I am also helping to propagate evil.

In the first case, if I too know NAP to be the good, then helping you publish your book is acting in love.
In the first case, if I help you but not because I know anything about NAP then I am acting for good, but only by chance, and thus not in love.
In the second case, if I know NAP to be the good, then helping publish the book is acting to propagate evil.
In the second case, if I know nothing about NAP then I am still acting to propagate evil, even if only by chance.

I submit that one should always strive to act for the good - to act in love for that which is good. In order to do so, of course, one must seek to know the truth.

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

Woundn't the root problem

Woundn't the root problem then be the source of the fear propaganda, not the fear?

Yes and no. We're each

Yes and no. We're each responsible for ourselves. If an individual is frightened by propaganda he may at first be an innocent victim, but if he succumbs to his fear without attempting to find the truth (as do, I submit, most of us) then he becomes the guilty party.

How many people do you know who just refuse to listen to reasoned arguments against govt violation of NAP? At what point do they lose the tag of victim and earn the tag of being their own victimizer?

Never trouble trouble til trouble troubles you. Fortune Cookie

you're absolutely right.

Most people seem to be taking a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 10,000 times, shame on me." approach. Even those who have been exposed to truth, continue to let themselves be fooled.

Problem with RP movement is

RP did not study Ayn Rand enough.

Individual liberty comes NOT from god and NOT from nature. It comes from human REASON.

Unreasonable people cannot maintain a free society for long - where one does not sacrifice himself for a neighbor and does not expect sacrifices from neighbors to himself. It is not a matter of being smart or use your brain all the time like a scientist. It is a matter of MORALITY, rational morality. One cannot be rational if he is 50% time rational and 50% driven by blind beliefs or feelings. Half water and half poison IS poison. Half reason and half unreason IS evil. Both religious and socialists share the same morality of sacrifice.

Unless majority of intellectuals accepts RATIONAL MORALITY, expect only idle talk and failed actions. But intellectuals, on everage, prefer government jobs, grants and tenure... I do not see faithkeepers leaving their government jobs either.

I'm sorry, but....no

"Individual liberty does not come from god"

I beg to differ, religion teaches morality. Self governance teaches self indulgence, and arrogance.

This country was founded under the guiding principles of Christianity, it has long since become and anti-Christian nation, then say that people lack the ability to reason, and that's why they are not moral? Is it so unreasonable that some people are not ignorant and in fact CHOOSE to be immoral and corrupt and want to be masters of others.

I think you didn't study history enough, try studying israels history, romes history, and americas history. ayn rand is one person who came up with ideas based on the success(or failure) of modern society. Anarchists are very confused people, like communists they fail to accept the reality of the situation and state "if only we did it this way, things would be utopia". All the while ignoring basic human instincts, including corruption.

But I do agree with you that morality alone is what brings peace and prosperity.

And again, no.

Religion is NOT the only thing that teaches morality. Human reason is by far more prevalent in teaching it. Studies overwhelmingly show that high morals and ethics are shown more in atheist people than in religious. This is because those people are doing the right thing because they, themselves, want the desired outcome, not because they fear some external entity ruining their future.

Self governance does not teach self indulgence one bit. Each person makes their own choice on both what is labeled self indulgence and how far they want to cross that line. This happens in both religious and non-religious people. Where those lines are drawn then comes back to their motivation (previous paragraph).

Arrogance is a whole other can of worms. Religious people are by far more arrogant because they've been told they are on the right side all their lives. They have never had to think for themselves WHY something is right or wrong, they just quote some higher authority. Even your post is filled with this type of argument even though it is clearly stretching opinions into fact.

In all actuality, our nation is not a bastion of immorality. As compared to most of human history, we are actually more puritan than most other times. We have taken the real taboos and made them both socially unacceptable and criminal. We have decided that certain others are really not as bad as some religions would have us believe. We also focus more on fighting against the top level criminals than has ever occurred before.

So, in conclusion, human nature, being one of corruption, is not driving the unethical decisions taking place today. Those are being driven out of a sense of compromise in the effort of survival (the real human nature driving this train). This is, IMHO, solely because our social ladder has been so closely tied to our personal wealth. This forces people to compromise more and more to climb that social ladder, let alone maintain whatever rung one is on.

When the day comes that all people can earn real wealth (e.g. abundance) by doing their job without being corrupt, people will do so. Until then, they will compromise to survive in the system of scarcity.

Anthony, if you still believe in miracles

that is okie-dokie with me. Just ask Jesus (he is surely a Libertarian himself) how much our Libertarian movement has time for a political action before kingdom of heaven replaces the world.

Why are you so affraid to let people believe what they want

What kind of liberty is that?

You are not focused

Nobody advocates forcing anybody else. People ask - why free society is not here? I answer - because people do not use rational thinking consistently. People cannot think all day long and fall back on their values and morality when they need to decide on an action. For free society to last, morality should be rational.

If people act the way they want, you simply cannot achieve free society. No laws will chain down the majority for long. For example, majority of Americans hate to work as hard as "Chinese." In response, the government forced and tricked others (via the FED and Pentagon) to accept dollar paper as gold. So many Americans live beyond their actual productivity.

TwelveOhOne's picture


Another reason is the multitude of rules we need to follow. This reduces the amount of time that can be spent critically thinking. I am thinking specifically of IRS rules, but there are many other examples.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you.
http://fija.org - Fully Informed Jury Association
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Too many Akstons.

Not enough Ragnars.

Evil is drawn to power, and Good lets them have It

All of this has happened before

And all of this will happen again

Nicely put.

But consider WHY Good lets them have it: the superstitious belief that some men are rightful rulers, with a moral right to wield power over over the lives, liberties and property of others. Good puts on its own chains.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Lets see...

What's the main problem?
Unrestrained State Power.

What's the solution?
Tie the Government down with the chains of the Constitution.

What are YOUR thoughts?
Right this minute, I've got a peaceful, easy feeling. :)

Paper chains

have not proven terribly effective. And there's this problem with its validity.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...

Ok, I'll Bite

The Fundamental 'Problem':

The root-cause and fertilizer that lay at the root of our ills, is the ethic & philosophy of Collectivism...globally and societal-driven (in the US) which predictably led to the political manifestation of Collectivism, e.g. Statism, coupled with the globalist-collectivism that pervades the rest of the world.

'Collectivism inevitably leads to totalitarianism', which is a truism that we are clearly living and which can be tracked back to the insidious expansion of Collectivism which now is so pervasive as to be non-correctable by traditional means and institutions.

The Solution:

At this time, I believe that the IX and X Amendment Movements are the best hope for quasi-peaceful resolution...where the people and the States reassert their sovereignty and nullify ANY federal over-reach AND push back, with 'force' if and as necessary any attempt to override or enforce non-delegated/non-constitutional edicts, regulations and illegitimate 'law'.

Not gonna be popular, but I expect that IX and X Amendment move to fail and I believe that the only workable solution when all is said and done, is the same solution that birthed our Republic.


The institutions of government and of society have been usurped, co-opted and to a large extent have been abrogated.

Things have simply gone too far because Collectivism/Statism is too entrenched into the fabric of society and by committed establishment-Statists refreshed by a stream of new burgeoning-statists being sent to 'serve' in government, continually and without fail.

The fed-government bureaucracy, which is timeless and rarely influenced by electoral means, is utterly infested. Our educational 'system' has been usurped, our institutions are co-opted, our industry is largely collectivism-driven and oriented. Most of our state governments and bureaucracies/institutions are co-opted and infested.

It is incumbent on those who are already awake to continue to work on a broader awakening through various means. It is critical that people educate on what is 'Collectivism', how it manifests, from whom and what the inevitable result of it is.

Beyond that, it is up to 'we the people' to prepare, mentally, physically and via tactics and equipment, for the (what I assess as) the inevitable necessity.

To me, although I am about working toward a peaceful solution through all available means, I do not see that such a solution is realistic or achievable, given the factual circumstances we face.

Things are accelerating and the point of traditional correction is far past.

Grim times and brutal hard choices loom, boys and girls.

I believe that's a symptom,

not a cause. Ask again "why" are people apathetic, compromising on ethic, collectivist and just basically defeatist. Could it be that they see just how much they lack the ability to change it?

Do you really believe that trying to organize people behind the 9th and 10th will do anything? First, the people, by your root cause, are too apathetic to do this and second, there is a very powerful, watchful and threatening force in opposition to it. Can't fight that force off until you unplug it's power.

What would energize the people?
What would empower them?
What would bankrupt the banks?
What would compete with statism?
What would slash the need for big government social welfare?
What would then kill their justification for social welfare?

Letting the people keep their money. All of it.

No, you have not delved to the root.

That root is an ethic and a philosophy, as I stated. You are simply raising symptoms, manifestations and results while I am pointing to the fundamental root-causation.

More later. I am going to go have some fun with my wife and son now.

Read closer

I listed the symptoms that lead to your symptoms and then I stated the cause of all the symptoms. That cause is monetary inequality.

Without equality, people will naturally acquire every symptom in both our lists. With it, they will feel empowered to make the changes as well as have the power to do so.

Root solution:
Let people keep the product of their labor. Stop the banks from stealing 98% of it.

Path to solution:
Stop feeding the banks and they will go bankrupt.

Michael Nystrom's picture

The main problem:

Poorly educated, emotionally driven population that is unfit to govern or take care of itself. This leads to a big brother nanny state, which only further encourages a poorly educated, emotionally driven populace that is unfit to govern or care for itself.

It is a rabid cycle. It is a pattern.

Solution in a nutshell: Break the cycle, interrupt the pattern.

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So break the cycle

What's the cause of people being poorly educated, emotional and unable to cover their own needs? It's money.

The root of the problem is that we've lost 98% of our 'return on productivity' in incremental ways over the last century. Inflation is the single biggest reason and we can discuss all day the many things that are causing it. But the nutshell comes down to... 98% of our money goes to the big banks. See my post below for more details.

How to fix it? Just stop renting, financing and replacing things. Buy good stuff once and keep it. When you investigate it, there are products of this type in every industry and for every need. Some are yet to come to the market but others have been here.

Did you know that "the average" income can make a one time purchase of all the products and services (non-financial ones) needed for a lifetime by age 30? The rest goes to the banks either via bad products or some financial game to get you to buy more bad products.

With today's technology, we should have had 75% price deflation with 100% wage inflation over the last century but instead we've traded that for 2500% price inflation and 1000% wage inflation. If we stop feeding the banks (and by extension the government) this can be swapped back pretty quickly.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Thank you

Excellent observations.

Can you turn this into a post of its own? I think that would be very useful and helpful to a lot of people. I would definitely put it on the front page.

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