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An example of the state environmentalists squashing a homeowner (me!)

During a heavy rain, the tiny polluted stream under our driveway flooded and washed out our driveway completely. Washington Fish and Wildlife would love to have every culvert in the state transformed into a "fish passage system". Mind you, there are no fish in this little drainage in my front yard, but someday, far in the future, a little fish might decide to swim upstream (that is if it could hop up past all the other fish-barrier culverts) and if it did, we want to make sure that it has a completely pleasant experience. Mind you, I am not "anti-fish". I spent 15 years of my life in the field of environmental research and planning. I was saving gnatcatchers and tortoises and red-legged frogs and kangaroo rats, etc. I am all about preserving our wildlife and habitat...but not over the dead bodies of my children.

The problem is that DFW would like me to install a "fish passage system" that includes a 10.5 foot culvert. This will cost about $165,000 and take about a year to get the permits and SEPA approval. That's assuming that we could find a second mortgage for that amount (which is not likely as we are living right above the poverty line and our property is only worth $200K anyhow). In the meantime, no emergency vehicles can access my home. We had a small fire here a week ago so that was very scary. I walk up and down the hill to my home about 5 times each day after playing taxi for my kids...often laden with groceries, sacks of feed, and library books on my shoulders. My pedometer says I average 8,000 steps a day. I can deal with that. But, I can't stomach the kinds of demands the state is putting upon us and many other homeowners on the Kitsap Peninsula as many culverts are failing.

Here is a link to a local news article that explains our situation. Note: the City's response in the article is not entirely truthful. Please, if you have a moment and are so inclined, post a comment at the bottom of the online article.


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Some pictures

I took these on November 19, 2012. Since then, more of the bank has fallen away.

email I sent to a councilman in December...detailed history

Dear Mr. Henry,

Thank you for your time. I am the woman who briefly spoke with you at Coffee Oasis this afternoon regarding my driveway. I am going to try to give you as much detail as I can on the history of my misunderstanding with the City of Poulsbo. I appreciate your patience in advance.

We bought our home in October 2009. Close of escrow was delayed while we waited for the easement agreement (attached) to be signed by Mayor Quade and filed with Kitsap County. We also were required to sign an addendum releasing the owner, Mr. Langdon, from the responsibility of having the septic and well inspected as they were soon to be capped and replaced by the City of Poulsbo with city water and sewer. All the communication we had during the escrow process led us to believe that soon the City of Poulsbo would be installing a sewer line down the driveway, replacing the culvert in the driveway, resurfacing the driveway, and hooking up city sewer and water. We are still waiting for all this to happen.

Our driveway crosses Bjorgen creek. In fact, Bjorgen Creek completely bisects our property and the driveway is the only place to get across to the other side. The gravel driveway was created in 1976 and includes a 2-foot culvert underneath. All our utilities pass through the driveway from Noll Road. These include: 7,200 volt electric power line (transformer up by barn), telephone cable, main water line, and septic effluent pipe.

Not too long after we had bought the house, a hole developed in the driveway over the culvert. I called Public Works at the City of Poulsbo and a crew was at our home within an hour or so to repair the hole. Workers determined that the hole formed because the culvert had not been kept properly cleaned out of leaves and branches. We agreed to work together with the City to ensure the culvert stayed clear. We were treated with great kindness and respect by Foreman Joe Walker.

On March 9th, 2011, high water levels during a very heavy rain caused another hole to develop in the driveway. This was was bigger than the one the city fixed. I once again called Public Works right away. This time, I was told that it is not the City's responsibility to repair driveways on private property, easement agreement or not. So, we began the 5-month endeavor to get permission from DFW and the City to fill in the hole ourselves.

When Gina Piazza from DFW visited us, she told me she wanted to me install a repair in my front yard "similar to what DOT did at 305 and Johnson". I recalled how my boys slept on the floor of my bedroom that summer because they were convinced giants were coming after us, and my response was to laugh out loud. I never could have imagined that she was serious but the look on her face instantly told me that not only was she very serious but my response did not please her the least. The next thing I knew, an officer with a badge and gun was doing a criminal background check on me. Mr. Henry, I've not even ever had a parking ticket! Can you imagine my shock? Keri Weaver from the City of Poulsbo Planning Department was there with Ms. Piazza. Those two appear to have a friendship and I fear Ms. Weaver's allegiance to Ms. Piazza may be what caused the bumps down the road with her--though I may be completely off-base with that conjecture.

On April 19th, our lawyer Richard Shattuck contacted James Haney regarding our situation. We believed that the City had a responsibility to fulfill the terms of the easement agreement. On May 20th we received Mr. Haney's response that the City would not comply. I have attached a copy of the correspondence for your review.

I found it to be a bit irritating that after the City had told us they were not responsible for our driveway, Foreman Keith (whose last name I can't pronounce but everyone knows who I'm talking about when I say "the hothead") would stop by our property at least once a day to inspect the hole. He would be in my driveway with his truck and tools, talking on his cellphone and waving his arms about, but he was not here to help. Once, he wandered all over our property, inspecting many things, but never came to the door. I mentioned to Ms. Weaver that this upset me and she said that Keith had never been to our property. I asked her how she knew and she said she had confirmed it with the Mayor. (Mayor Erickson does not remember being asked about Foreman Keith's frequent visits to our property--and really, how on earth would the Mayor know such details of the daily schedule of an employee not directly under her supervision?). What is interesting is that when I called Mr. Berezowsky to complain, the visits stopped.

For the next 5 months, I spent way too much of my time (I homeschool my special needs boys) working on a repair solution that would please everyone. What made things particularly frustrating was that the people I dealt with at the City of Poulsbo treated me as if I am just some confused housewife. Please excuse my frankness Mr. Henry, but if one more person at the City of Poulsbo refers to me as "confused", I'm going to scream. They would say things like, "Oh, you just have an easement agreement" and brush me off. Mr. Henry, take a look through those 8 pages. That is a contract if you ask me. And, I am not just some dumb housewife. When these young planners were still trying to get their driver's licenses, I was traveling around the country to city governments such as Poulsbo's to teach city workers how to perform Geographic Information Systems analysis. I wrote the textbooks for the training courses at ESRI. I spent 15 years in the field of environmental research and planning, leading up the GIS departments in companies such as Southern California Edison, KTU+A, and the Center for Earth Systems Analysis and Research. These youngsters think they have such big fish to fry with the sensitive habitat near my driveway but heck, I was the GIS lead on the Western Riverside Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Program which covered 1.2 million acres of sensitive habitat. I was also the technical lead on the Southern California Association of Governments Land Use Database, which was a multi-million dollar project that we started back in 1989 that completely mapped all land use for most of the counties in Southern California. Believe me, it has taken much self-control on my part not to give these young people at both the city and DFW a piece of my mind.

Eventually, Ms. Piazza was removed from our case and we dealt with her supervisor after that. Mr. Dave Kloempken is a reasonable man and admitted to me in a phone conversation that our family had not been treated with respect. Mr. Kloempken (with the permission of his supervisor) offered an apology from DFW.

At the city, I started working with Barry Berezowsky instead of Ms. Weaver. Yet, Ms. Weaver stayed involved on her own. At one point, she sent out an email to individuals at the City and DFW, as well as the City attorney and the Suquamish Tribe. Her email to me stated, "To whom it may concern:
Please note that per Chapter 15.35.110.A.6., PMC, clearing and/or grading on a site (including logging for commercial purposes) that is not officially-designated forest land is not allowed without an approved future development proposal. Since the Weers are not proposing to develop their property, a clearing permit could not be issued.
How Ms. Weaver's understanding went from filling in a hole in our driveway to cutting down all the trees on our property I'll never understand. But, I do feel that such inflammatory emails only serve to make us look like the bad guy. How is that helpful? And myself, being a liberty-loving individual (note my email address) who likes to know my rights in every situation, I became curious enough to give DNR a call. I learned that as we are still an acreage lot, we actually do have the right to clearcut our land if we choose to. The only provision with DNR is that we allow the land to rest for 10 years afterwards since we live in a city. So, not only was Ms. Weaver's correspondence inflammatory, it was also incorrect.

We finally did get Mr. Berezowsky to agree that no City permits were needed to fill in the hole in our driveway and we were ready to get to work. After hearing from Mr. Berezowsky that the City was in no way to be involved, SEPA jurisdiction was turned over to DFW and Mr. Kloempken granted us a Hydrologic Project Approval (attached) to repair our driveway.

Oh, but wait...Ms. Weaver sends out another email. She attaches a copy of the HPA (the same one I've attached to this email) and writes, "Good morning Mrs. Weer, I’m happy to see that Fish & Wildlife has issued the HPA for your repair and restoration work. This is just a reminder that prior to any work on a bridge replacement, the design and construction methods will need to be approved by the City, and a building permit issued for the work. When you are ready to apply for a building permit, please contact Cherlyn Haley, Building Permit Specialist, at (360) 396-9882 for the application requirements. Thank you.

Yes, she used a much nicer tone this time but now everyone at the City was upset because they thought we were building a bridge without permits. Once again, how did Ms. Weaver go from a repair (as stated in the beginning of her email and listed as the Project Name of the HPA which she included as an attachment) to buidling a bridge? And, why was she even involved as I was dealing directly with Mr. Berezowsky? Mr. Berezosky, who had been very friendly up to this point, called me up and almost lost it with me as he was so angry. He accused me of changing my mind and not informing him. I assured him I had done nothing of the kind. He could not believe me and instead demanded that we start from scratch, I needed to resubmit the repair plans to him and he held a meeting with various representatives from the City to re-assess whether or not permits were needed. Finally, we were given the clear to fill in a hole in our driveway.

For five months we had no access to our home for any kind of emergency vehicle. I was assured this was an "expedited" process due to the serious nature of our request. I dread to wonder how long it takes for the City to agree that no permits are needed on a project that is not expedited. (An interesting side note is that it only took Public Works a few minutes to determine that no permits were needed when they first repaired our driveway.)

In January, I started attending the City Council meetings in an effort to support Coffee Oasis. I became acquainted with Mayor Erickson after I had made a comment in an article in the Kitsap Sun about homeowners saying "Not in my backyard!" to Coffee Oasis that I would be glad to donate the front acre of our property for the construction of the teen center. Once the go-ahead was given for the Iverson location, I started visiting the Mayor on a regular basis to inquire as to the status of permitting for the remodel. After speaking to dozens and dozens of other citizens who had also had great problems getting permits through the planning department, I was a bit wary and took it upon myself to be a bit of a watchdog for CO. When I met with Mayor Erickson in June, and permits still hadn't been issued, she told me she was embarrassed and ashamed that not even she could push through permits on a very important project. She desires to change how the planning department operates but all the citizens I speak with have little faith that anyone can fix the issues in that department.

For the past year, I've also continued to politely press the Mayor into looking deeper into our easement agreement. Even though our driveway was repaired, the way I look at things--my city made a promise to my family, and that promise has not been kept. I wish to know when and how that promise will be fulfilled.

Last month, on Monday, November 19th, sometime between the hours of 7am and 9am, we lost the entire driveway. There had been heavy rains all Sunday and the runoff from Deer Run was incredible. The water was 6-feet deep and rushing like mighty rapids. We now have a little canyon cut through where our driveway used to be that is about 25 feet wide and 5 feet deep. Our powerline and water main dangle in the air. But, the utilities are still operating and I think that is God's testament of His mercy for the Weer family. If you come down to look, you will marvel. I've attached a few pictures.
As you can see, our home is about a football-field-length away up a steep hill. There is absolutely no way for any emergency vehicle to reach us. We are completely unprotected. My husband Steve and I have two boys, ages 8 and 11.

So, we still wait for the City to fulfill the easement agreement. From what I have been able to learn, it appears that the City would like a developer to pay for and install the sewer line down our driveway that is part of the City's Comprehensive Plan. There were developers ready to fulfill this need back in 2008/2009 but they ran out of patience and money while waiting for their plans to get through City Planning. Now, I have heard that Quadrant Homes may be interested in developing up the street from us. They would need to connect into the city sewer system and this could be our saving grace.

Maybe you can help me find the answers to some questions?
1) When will the City of Poulsbo fulfill the requirements of the easement agreement?
2) Will City Planning work efficiently and cooperatively with a developer such as Quadrant Homes to approve plans for a sewer-line to be installed down our driveway (and of course any plans for a housing development on Noll without which there is no need for sewer connection)?
3) May I get a clear, detailed description of just what exactly is defined as "work" in the critical buffer area?

For some clarification on number 3, Mayor Erickson has reminded us that we need to obtain an HPA for any "work" we do. My husband taped some insulation around the newly-exposed water main. Was that "work"? The City of Poulsbo filled in a hole in our driveway without any permits. Was that "work"? Mr. Langdon, the former owner, replaced the driveway a number of times without permits, including as recently as 2006. Was that "work"? Does the definition of "work" change based on who is asking?

Melinda Weer

Here is the email I sent to the council/mayor--no response

January 29, 2012
Good Morning Mayor Erickson and esteemed Council,

I am forwarding to you an email which I wrote to Councilman Henry a month ago. This should explain the history of our situation.

Last night, there was a small fire in the electrical wiring in the wall of our kitchen. I turned off the main power and called 911. It took a really long time for the Fire Department to get to us as they could not drive their trucks to our home. They could not see the house in the dark and I had to send my young son down the hill with a flashlight as I was busy getting our pets out of the house (yes, I already got the lecture from the FD on that). The firefighters had to walk up the hill with their equipment, which added even more of a delay.

This was a small incident and everyone is OK. But, the Battalion Chief admitted that in a larger fire their response would be severely crippled.

Why can't Public Works install some sort of temporary emergency access to our home until the City can get around to fulfilling their promise to us to replace the culvert and driveway? We live in the city limits and yet it's akin to living in a third-world country in regards to our access to emergency services. What happens if I have a heart attack (I have heart disease) and my son, who is Autistic, has to try to figure out how to help me? Do we need to wait for that kind of tragedy before the City decides to come through on their promise to us?

Members of the public have suggested that the city drop a flat-bed across the breach in the driveway. An alternate route would be to create an access on the City's other sewer easement that runs through the middle of our property and out across our neighbor's driveway. I have not talked to our neighbor about this as one of the residents of that home is a convicted Level 2 Rapist, and I am not comfortable interacting with him as I am a past rape-victim myself. I have no confidence that anything we try to do ourselves as homeowners would get through City Planning. We learned our lesson when it took 5 months for Planning to decide that we did not need permits to fill in the hole in our driveway in 2011. In contrast, it only took an hour for Public Works to respond to fill in the hole when they first repaired it. It is very obvious to us that there are different rules for the city than for homeowners. And then there was that whole unpleasant experience of having Gina Piazza from DFW threatening to throw my husband in jail if we didn't make the fish happy (even though there are no fish here, nor ever have been). I'd rather not go through that stress again as it cost us quite a lot of money when my health failed as a result and I had to go in for surgery. Needless to say, our savings are completely gone now.

What are we to do? We are now underwater in our mortgage as our property value has plummeted. We can't sell the house without access. We can't even move out unless we leave most of our possessions behind and just take the things we can carry on our backs. I have contacted a bankruptcy lawyer about abandoning our home. This is really upsetting to me considering that we have had perfect credit all our lives and currently have scores near 900. 35 years of hard work and good credit will all go in the toilet because of the City's inability to fulfill their promise to us. And, with 22 weeks of 20% cut in my husband's pay due to furlough coming up, we have no chance of building any savings to contribute to repairing the driveway. Even if we had a chance to build some savings, how long do you think it would take us to save $164,000 considering we support a family of 4 on an income of less than xxxx. Gina Piazza wants a "fish passage system" with a 10.5 foot diameter culvert--in our front yard! And, what on earth will the claims adjuster think when he sees that our home is inaccessible and therefore indefensible? Will we lose our home owner's insurance? We have invested all our life's savings into our property as we thought that was the wisest place to put our money. I guess the joke is on us...lesson learned to not buy property in the City of Poulsbo. But, how were we to know as we came here on short notice through a military PCS move?

As you can tell, I am distraught. I believe I have been very patient these past 3 years. I haven't bothered y'all too much. I've been respectful. Please, tell me when the City will fulfill their promise to us to replace the culvert and our driveway? Please, have Public Works install a temporary access for emergency vehicles. You are the City, you have the power to do this. Please do the right thing, in the Name of Jesus.

Melinda Weer

Not a peep

I sent this email a couple weeks ago and yet I have not heard one peep from anyone on the City Council. And, some of them profess to be Christians. Where is their compassion? Why are they pretending I'm invisible, that my little boys don't matter??


blonduxo's picture

Citizen's Alliance for Property Rights CAPR

Have you contacted them? Several influencial liberty folks are in leadership positions, check them out at
They are particularly intersted in learning about any property rights issues you are personally facing.

Address: Citizens' Alliance for Property Rights
718 Griffin Avenue #7
Enumclaw, WA 98022
Telephone: 206-335-2312

I love Daily Paul members!

I did not know about this group. I'm going to call them now.

update: I've left a phone message and sent them all my info, including a copy of the contract that is filed with the county.


In the mean while are you able to get an ATV, motorcycle or even a bicycle on to your property to avoid the 8,000 steps?

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm- What the? >
Strike The Root: There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.


My first response to this kind of stuff is to attempt to never play in they're rigged games.

I'm sure they can't complain about just letting the stream go back to natural, can they?

Would something like a zip line or a tram suffice? My Dad has a elevator/tram on his hill side. Not very expensive to make and there are companies that do them. They may even have kits of some kind.

Because: Some animals are more equal than other animals. -Animal Farm- What the? >
Strike The Root: There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.

Small temporary footbridge

My husband built a small footbridge by taking an old farm gate, screwing plywood to it, and then tacking down roofing material so we won't slip so bad when it's icy in the morning. He laid it across a narrow portion of the stream.

In the article, it says the washed out area is only 10 feet wide. No, it's really more like 25-30 feet wide.
We laid down stepping stones on the approach to the footbridge on each side so we won't make mud. DFW is very worried about any mud near the edge of a stream because the fish don't like sediment in their water.

My husband has used his ATV to take our garbage cans and bales of hay across, but we are trying to be very cautious as they have threatened to throw my husband in jail before. In fact, when DFW first visited me in March of 2011, they came with an officer wearing a badge and a gun who ran a criminal background check on me. He didn't find anything, not even a parking ticket. But, I was very hot under the collar that they assume I'm a criminal because an act of nature washed away part of my driveway.


If It Gets Too Bad

You can still hand the problem over to the bank that holds your mortgage and simply "walk away". The question to ask is "am I dealing with rational human beings who are able and willing to apply common sense to assist me with my problem"? If you are dealing with mindless bureaucrats and procedure followers and the prospect of a long legal battle and permit process which will drain you of your time, money, energy and spirit you should decide if it's really worth it.
Nobody likes to have to pack up and move from the place they consider "home", or deal with the consequences of defaulting on a mortgage, but it appears the government has made your home more of a liablity for you.
Have you considered alternatives like a temporary portable bridging structure to span the gap (similar to military bridging devices but smaller)? Since it would be moveable it probably would not require a permit.

We've been in touch with a bankruptcy lawyer

His advice to us has been to walk away. My husband is not ready to do this. We have perfect credit scores and all our money is invested in our property. And, walking away is not so easy as we would have to literally "walk away" with whatever we want to take with us carried on our shoulders as we only have a small footbridge for leaving the property. We have livestock, farm equipment, shop equipment, furniture, appliances, etc.

The opinion of the bankruptcy lawyer is that we could just stop paying and the bank would very likely not be interested in foreclosing on us once they find out what we are facing with Fish and Wildlife. No one anywhere up here wants to touch any property that DFW is fussing about. We could probably live here for 4-5 years payment free before anyone at the bank pushed on us.

But, this is so out of character for us that we are not ready to do that. I keep praying for justice.

About a temporary bridge--Fish and Wildlife is actually open to that idea. But, we still live in the city limits and the planning department wants a engineered bridge with footings and a certain weight rating that would support a fully-loaded water tender. They will put a stop work order on us and they've already sent a scary letter saying "The unpermitted alteration of a designated critical area (stream) in a critical area buffer is a violation of the City's Critical Areas Ordinance (PMC 16.20)." The critical area buffer extends 300 feet up from each side of the stream. (By the way, this stream is only a couple inches deep.) This ordinance was passed quietly without notifying ANY of the city's residents. Does that surprise you?


Can't be sued on 1st mortgage in WA

I forgot to mention something that might help others. I learned that in the state of Washington, the bank may not sue you if you default on your first mortgage. You are protected by law. Now, second or third, etc = fair game.

Per loan agreement.

I am not questioning. Just tip for those reading.

Each loan agreement may state this differently. Some states have laws related to this. Oft first mortgage for purchase has only the property as collateral. That it, if delinquent, the bank has recourse of foreclose. Subsequently, they may take the real property property; sell it. They keep what they consider is their due.

Typically, second loans, refinance, & line of credit write their own rules into loan contracts. They are not bound by as many pesky limits on what they can take form you. Read them. They are usually awful.

Credit Unions are generally preferred. Bank tend to be awful.

Mine are general comments. I am known as a fiction writer.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Off the top of my head

It seems to me that you made a contract for the property in good faith and that was breached by the city accepting the developer's easement deed in property value, the real estate agent, who did not disclose the problems of the property/ and James Langdon.

I would, now this is off the top of my head.. but I would write a letter, short outline with most important FACTS, include pictures, and this should go to your sentators, congressman, board of supervisors in your district.. the DFG, the city, WA conservation corps, WA conservation commission.. human rights watch, any and all local organizations that would find it interesting.. it should be pages of copies to.. but addressed to the city manager.. send it to all MSM, local radio.. it should be an appeal for help. It's pretty late for me, and I've been partying (mardi gras), starting my fast tomorrow.. so this post..well, like you, I've worked for years on conservative and then enviromental issues.. and I saw the "light" about a decade ago.. fish and frogs being the reason behind breached contracts that hurt good people in the name of saving the planet.. We have a brochure from the new national parks in CA that calim all the shoreline.. protecting rocks..
I'm going to lift this up in prayer tonight.. GOD BLESS YOU.. got my thinking cap on... ((((((((((Melinda and family))))))))))

Thank you, thank you!

I will take your advice. I've already contacted the local news stations. I had not thought about my local legislators (lost confidence in most of those clowns--except Rand!). I did sent a very dramatic and emotional email to the Poulsbo City Council pleading for help the day after the fire. I have not heard back one peep from any of them.

I am very grateful for prayers! We could especially use prayers for our 11-year-old son because he is not taking the stress of all this well at all. I'm worried about him.

I didn't wake up until this past July. The Holy Spirit started nudging me to prepare my family for the coming economic problems and also to start reading alternative news sites. I don't even look at the mainstream ones anymore.

Thank you again,


Your 11 year old has Autism? Is that correct? Contact the many National Autism groups.. association, center, resources... It's just really important that you send out copies.. maybe your 11 year old can write a cover letter about what he sees happening?

(((((((You and your family are absolutly in my prayers)))))) if you belong to a Church you might ask for some help, mailing letters, stamps, paper, copying costs.. and it you can.. maybe give a fundraiser for you?

Red cross nearby? REACH OUT FOR LOCAL HELP expose the darkness!

Should include a few attorney's too

8 year old

It's actually the 8 year old who is Autistic. He is making great strides though at his new school where they have a special program. I've homeschooled him up until November. It took me 3 years of advocating before I got the school district to listen to me that he needed more help than I could give him myself. So, I guess since I solved all that mess November 1st, that the Lord saw fit to give me a new advocacy assignment on the 19th of November. Oh yay -- 2.5 weeks "vacation".

We have qualified for legal assistance through the Moderate Means program here in Washington. If my husband goes on furlough, our income will be low enough to get totally free legal aid.

Thank you!!

free legal aid

Maybe the most important thing for you to know is that you are not alone in that, there are going to be people in your community that will want to help you. Make your first letter, with copies to.. whoever you can think of, on line to your local editor, and if they refuse to publish it.. ask why, what you can do to get something published? There should be fraternal organizations, Lions.. Masons.. Knights of Columbus.. and while they prefer to help each other.. you never know who you might connect with that is moe than happy to step outside that fraternal box and help you.

Being that I, who live so far and can do little, feels the need to help you.. You write well.. so you really don't need help in writing a letter.. though you could have DPers proof it..

You need to write that letter breifly explaining your situaltion with the property, outline, and making a plea for help.

Your virtual friend, who admires, respects and prays for you. <3

TwelveOhOne's picture

Perhaps your last paragraph is a clue

If you have told your neighbors, especially the neighbor that is spying and reporting your movements.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. - Fully Informed Jury Association - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

Please elaborate...I'm still new to figuring all this stuff out

I've talked with the neighbor whose tree fell on the retaining wall that started it all and he feels really bad. I haven't talked with the other neighbors as we try to keep out of everyone's business. The neighbor who reported us is a strange bird. He calls on everyone in the neighborhood for anything he can think of. He's told me that he's going to make stew out of my goats. We have offered to help them when the power has gone out for days (it's happened 3 times now) during ice/snow events. We call and ask if they need firewood or drinking water. They always say they are fine. They are elderly so I feel obligated to be charitable...but certainly, I've become more wary of them after they have called the city every time my husband goes anywhere near the precious "critical buffer zone". Their son is a convicted rapist who keeps failing his urine tests and getting in trouble otherwise for things like theft so we generally keep our distance from them, it's a matter of safety rather than prejudice.


TwelveOhOne's picture

Sorry for late response

Hi Melinda,

To elaborate, I meant that your neighbor that keeps reporting you seems out to get you, and that reducing your interactions with them might be a worthwhile goal. Not sure whether a fence would help to limit their view of your activities -- and I understand there's an expense involved with that solution.

The son sounds like someone to be wary of as well. (Caution, that is, not fear.)

I like the idea others have offered, of a military-style temporary bridge, as that would provide for the maximum leeway for the fish, and as long as you place it on "not-wetlands" footing on either side it sounds like a reasonable temporary solution, that might be permanently temporary, perhaps. Also have a bicycle or ATV on the other side, to use in your yard, both in the meantime and if they decide to destroy your bridge.

I find the whole idea of wetlands to be completely wrong. This is my property; how anyone can have a claim to my property is beyond me. I mean, I understand that they do it -- it's just not constitutional.

I'm considering purchasing some wetlands here that are under 10k and then mounting a fight to eliminate wetland classification. If the fight costs less than 100k it might be worth doing. Perhaps I can find some like minds.

I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. - Fully Informed Jury Association - Jin Shin Jyutsu (energy healing)

thanks 12:01


Definition of Flood (common in insurance policies)

Flood Policy Definitions:

Flood: A general and temporary condition of partial or complete inundation of two or more acres (general) or two or more properties (at least one of which is the policyholder’s property) of normally dry land area (temporary) from the:

  • • Overflow of inland or tidal waters;
  • • Unusual and rapid accumulation or runoff of surface waters from any source; or
  • • Mudflow.

Flood also includes the collapse or subsidence of land along the shore of a lake or similar body of water as a result of erosion or undermining caused by waves or currents of water exceeding anticipated cyclical levels that result in a flood as defined above.

Four concepts on which to focus in this definition are:

  1. The definition states “two or more properties…,” it does not state “structures” or who the owner of the second property must be. If the contiguous flood crosses onto another’s property, the inundation qualifies as a “flood;”
  2. The “Southfork Ranch” provision (where the Ewings lived in TV’s Dallas). Insureds that own a large amount of land may never qualify for coverage without this two-acre provision;
  3. Mudflow in the flood policy is not synonymous with mudslide. It means a river of liquid and flowing mud on the surfaces of normally dry land areas; and
  4. The collapse or subsidence of land does not mean erosion over long periods of time; this is sudden erosion caused by the inundation by flood waters.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul


Looking into floodplains


Just curious....

where does the pollution come from???

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Runoff from a large

Runoff from a large subdivision, a number of streets, and two schools.

Well technically they have no

Well technically they have no jurisdiction or authority to tell you anything involving your property but you need to learn your rights and how to defend them and back them down. Are you willing to spend a few hours learning? If so get your neighbors together and learn together or at least pass it on to them to learn at the same time, here you go:

End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Small bridge

Just build a wooden bridge or that new composite (trex i think) over PT lumber to bridge the gap and make sure the fish can swim under...
Have most of it assembled (or pre-fitted) out of sight. Then when the sun goes down you (and about 20 of your friends) down drag it out of hiding and drop it in place. What are they gonna do? tear it down? You needed temporary access to your home. Tell them it's temporary and as soon as the city fixes their right of way, you'll take it down. If the issue is fish passage, a completely bare ditch allows even greater access than any type of "fish passage system." If they squeal, you'll know it was never about the fish and then file a lawsuit. Read up on the rules of civil procedure for your state and know them like the back of your hand and then file it yourself and name anyone who's obstructed you in even the slightest way. Claiming it is a temporary structure may negate the need for a permit.

Unfortunately, I've already

Unfortunately, I've already been warned to not do anything. And, one of my neighbors reports my every move. We need to get permits from the City which require the use of a civil engineer and a biologist, at our expense of course. You have no idea how hysterical everyone up here in the Seattle area is. We had to leave Oregon 3 years ago when they closed the AFR Base and boy, do I feel like Dorothy out of Kansas.
And, I'm a volunteer down at a teen center so I need to make sure I live every aspect of my life with complete integrity.