Rebate Checks
Submitted by JUSTCOMEHOME on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 05:47
Anybody else have the suspicion that by creating and pumping more money into the system is an attempt to speed up the collapse of the dollar ?
Watch this
»





















Proble,Reaction,Solution
Crash the economy,the people react,the government introduces the NAU .................once you understand this philosophy everything done by the government becomes very clear .
No way.
They are not intentionally going to collapse the dollar. They are going to do it because they can't get out of the system they've put themselves in.
Their economic policy (Keynesian) demands that they reduce tax and spend more to hold off recession. They are holding to the doctrine. Let's hope it works. I hate the philosophy, that eliminates your right to save money because the government wants to keep money circulating...but hey...your politicians your system.
The sense of urgency tells me, the wheels are about to come off
This House of Cards our Federal Reserve and Congress have created is no more than a ponzi game, a greater fool theory......and guess what, the foreigner, who we used to rely on to be the 'greater fool" for accepting our money, are wising up and looking for alternatives. Look for the Amero soon at an ATM near you!
alan laney
Let Me Get This Straight
We'll borrow money from the Chinese and Arabs. Spend it on oil and Chinese products of questionable quality. Somehow this will fix our economy. I don't get it. When will they understand? It's federal spending stupid.
They are pumping Deflation Prevention
Because they don't want a reccession, they want to increase the money supply because they fear deflation. Our money is entirely create from debt. If ALL debt was retired in our country, there would be NO money. Deflation is defined as a reduction in the credit/money supply. Everytime a loan is created it increases the money supply. Once that loan is retired, the money that was created is also retired.
This would all be different is the money was actually printed. But only a very small fraction of money created is actually ever printed. Only the money needed to carry our day to day transactions is printed. Near ALL of our money is nothing more than book entries, or today, a computer entry.
Our fiat debt based money system REQUIRES inflation. If you go and buy a house on debt, at first you may have a hard time affording it. But due to inflation your wages increase and after a few years your mortgage payment becomes less and less of a percentage of your income. Same with the government. They borrow, get in over our heads, but they know that due to inflation they're revenues will increase. So this HUGE debt, in theory, becomes less and less percentage of revenue. Problem is they keep increasing debt...
In 2001 as the reccession set in, the borrower lost confidence in bororwing, as is normal in a reccession. Lower rates persuaded borrowers to borrow. Borrowers are not as smart as lenders, and more easy to persuade into borrowing.
Currently the subprime markets are seeing increasing defaults. Remember, when a debt is retired, it decreases the money supply. That computer entry that created the money is now zero. That money is gone. Into thin air, from which it came. Another way debt is retired, default, or when the debt is forgiven. So massive defaults are deflationary, they take money out of the system.
Lately the FED has lost its control, as Greenspan has openly talked about in a n interview a couple months ago. When he dropped rates to near zero, mortgage rates followed. But recently as rates have been increased, mortgages did not follow. Mortgage rates did increase but not proportionately to the previous decrease.
For those who remember, in 2002 Greenspan was talking a lot about "the risk of deflation" to our economy. This was the purpose of cutting rates to near zero. This was to encourage borrowing. Borrowing increases the money supply. At the same time, for those who remember, Bush issued tax rebates. Another increase in the money supply. Both are only temporary bandaids, and result in a larger problem late on (which is nearing).
So inflation is kept going to avoid deflation. Inflation is a increase in the credit supply, increasing debt. To increase debt REQUIRES 2 things. A willing borrower and a willing lender. When the banks lose confidence, they stop lending. When borrowers lose confidence, they stop borrowing. This is what controls the FEDS effectiveness. The FED raises and lowers rates to encourage/discourage lending. But this is their only control, they can't fully control the emotional side, the confidence equation.
Recently, as the subprime markets crumble, the banks have lost confidence. The FED has been injecting 100's of billions into the credit markets. But the credit markets have still stopped a large portion of lending. They are holding onto the cash as they fear that as this unwinds they may need it to cover their ASSetts. This reduction in lending creates a reduction in the money supply, deflation.
So bottom line. Bush is borrowing for us, increasing the money supply, to avoid deflation. He is borrowing for us because, well because he can, and we can't. When I say we can't I'm referring to the banks loss of confidence, they have cut back significantly on lending.
Fiat debt based money systems are ALL ABOUT ever increasing debt. Without it, they collapse into deflation through defaults.
Note: If the FED starts actually printing all the money, then we're in for hyperinflation, as once the money physically exist, it does not dissappear when a default occurs as it does currently. Germany, before they totally collapsed, was printing physical moeny so fast the they started printing on only one side of the bill, to speed up the printing. One side of their money was blank.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Nice comment
But in this case the Fed will HAVE to print vast amounts of cash or the Government will default on the interest payments (and likely massive cash-outs) of $9 trillion in bonds. Individuals can default on their private loans and the "money" disappears as you say. This is what caused the deflation and bank failures in the Great Depression. But the government will try anything before defaulting on its loans. Additionally, the government has enormous non-debt expenditures that it doesn't have the will to cut. As tax revenues fall from the recession and foreign countries stop lending, the government will have two choices - default or print money. I think it will print money. And, as the government prints vast amounts of cash to cover its obligations, the world demand for the dollar goes in the tank as the world market abandons the dollar as the international currency. As the demise of the dollar becomes clear, there will be a rush to cash in US bonds and use the dollars to buy other currencies etc, thus flooding the world with dollars that nobody wants. So you will have a spiral of increasing supply of dollars from from the printing press and decreased demand from a world losing confidence in the dollar. The result will be hyper-inflation. I don't see any way around it.
I suspect you may be right,
only th future will tell. This is the reason that Germany began massive printing, to pay the government debt. They tried to convince foreign government to forgive the debt but were refused. Maybe the world learned its lesson and our debt will be forgiven...
But still, there is no need to fear hyperinflation UNLESS and until the government starts printing LARGE amounts of physical currency.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Perhaps
The exchange value of the dollar is a function of both supply AND demand. If the world dumps the dollar, and the US is in a recession, the demand for the dollar will drop like a rock. So even with a steady supply, we will have inflation from the drop in demand.
But I understand and agree with what you are saying - there is a HUGE debt hole with no actual currency to put into it. When the bubble collapses, if the Fed doesn't put the presses into high gear, there could be deflation. But I think they WILL try to print their way out. Bernake's endorsement of a $100 billion handout of money that the government doesn't have, coupled with his previous helicopter comment, is pretty strong evidence. That $100 billion will HAVE to be printed because there is nowhere else to get it.
At least that is what I'm betting on . . . .
The Amero
I FULLY understand your point. But understand, Bernanke FULLY understands your point too. He knows everything you know. Sometimes comments are made by FED governors in an attempt to maintain confidence. They are comments meant to have an emotional effect, to direct the emotional aspects of the system. The system is not entirely mechanical, but, as stated in my first post here, it also has an emotional aspect to it.
The recent talk of the Amero, whether it comes to be or not, could also be an emotional control. The Amero could be a ploy to tell foreigner, "We've got a new currency ready to go", a statement of "we don't have to pay you".
Historically this is what happens to a currency that is hyperinflated, it is replaced...
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
We have already hyperinflated our money supply
But the hyperinfaltion was directed to areas that did not cause much inflation. Through the 80's and 90's much money was created but we saw disinflation, a decreasing amounts of inflation. This was because a VERY large portion of the new maney was going into savings and which means it doesn't circulate. Who was putting money into saving you say?
The Saudis, the Japanese,ect. They were HOLDING our debt, and our debt is our money. When that debt come home, we will either default, or print (hyperinflate). Bear in mind, our bonds and TBills, just like any other investment instrument are not 100% gauranteed. Maybe 99% gauranteed, but not 100%. We could see all this money come home, and the government just simply default. "Sorry, we can't pay you". That is the making of a war...BUT WE LIKE WAR!!!
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
absolutely
especially when they discourage us from saving it or using to pay debt. Spend it at the malls ! SPEND SPEND SPEND to save the economy. Funny how 2 weeks ago he was spouting "the economy is fine". All of a sudden we need to act fast ! I know I am preaching to the converted but when will the rest of this country wake up !
Yep.
I can't believe there hasn't been more discussion about this, though maybe no discussion is necessary because we know what's really going on. King Bush is going to let the serfs keep $800 of their own money. How gracious. It seems to be one last futile attempt to Band-aid what is already broken in multiple places. Why don't they just give everyone a million dollars? We could all be millionaires! (as long as you don't mind a $10,000 Big Mac or a $50,000 gallon of milk)
It's Only Temporary
If they do it the same way they did in 2001 you will get the money in 2008. But, when you file your 2008 tax return you are basically giving it back. If you net owe taxes you will have to add the amount of the rebate to what you owe. If you are due a refund you will have to subtract the amount you received from that.
There is no free lunch. It's just a temporary loan you will have to pay back one way or the other.
To clarify...
They will do what they did before, but it was a tax credit, not a loan that had to be paid back. But, I do understand how people thought that, because I remember thinking the same thing.
The lowest tax bracket is normally 15%, but that year they created a 10% bracket on the first $6000 of everyone's earnings. This gave each individual an extra $300 due back on their return. The government sent out these checks early (can you imagine what that costed us?), so when you filed your tax return for that year, you had to indicate that you've already received $300 of return that was due, so you were not credited twice.
If they do this tax credit thing again, they will again just be adjusting some portion of the lowest tax bracket down to 10%. So to clarify, they are lessening everyone's tax liability, but that's a big joke, because as we know, that is not how they tax us anyway, they tax us by printing all the money they want behind the scenes.
Should a $600 check arrive
Should a $600 check arrive in my mail box (highly unlikely) I will either tear it up thus preventing more debt on our country or donate it to Ron Paul to help bring a halt to this kind of insanity. (I'll make that decision when I see the check.)
The money is not for boosting the economy (a moron can figure that out) but is for the sole purpose of buying yet another set of faux clothes for the Emperor (not). The government has no money it does not first steal from me, my family or my neighbors or our grand children. To accept any such money from government sources is aiding and abetting theft, extortion and more fiscal slavery with its accompanying violence by the hands of the tax goon squads.
Donate it!
http://rebates4ron.com/
http://freedom4um.com/