-2 votes

Ron Paul Supporters Denounce Rand Paul for Hagel vote

“That is also why I voted to not end debate on the Hagel nomination,” Paul said in a statement. “I do not believe Sen. Hagel has adequately explained his activities and their financing since he left the Senate, and I believe this criteria is especially important when dealing with the revolving door between government and the private sector.”

That explanation wasn’t good enough for Justin Raimondo, editorial director of Antiwar.com and a strong supporter of Ron Paul. “It’s time for libertarians to treat Rand Paul like the turncoat he is: boycott,” Raimondo tweeted. “No $$, no support, & start calling him Paul the Lesser.”

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/14/ron-paul-supporters-denoun...

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What's with the bizarre pushing for Hagel's confirmation??

Quoting from Sincerus, who wrote below:

The fact is Hagel voted for the Patriot Act. Hagel voted to establish the United States Department of Homeland Security, supported increasing Defense Department spending, voting in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act every year he served in the Senate.

In the private sector, he serves on the board of directors of Chevron Corporation, Deutsche Bank's Americas Advisory Board, and the advisory board of Corsair Capital, and is a director of the Zurich Holding Company of America and a senior advisor to McCarthy Capital Corporation. All verifiable facts and too many conflicts of interests. Can someone please wedge a big stick in that revolving door!?!

Can somebody put forward a more logical argument against Rand?

I am getting a little sick of all this Rand Paul bashing. Its not 2016 yet and it seems certain people are not fully reading or understanding his reasons for his actions before bashing him. Rand did not vote against Hagel, he voted to KEEP THE DEBATE OPEN ON HAGEL, which means he wants some more answers from Hagel before making his vote. Thats like asking for time to read a bill before voting on it. What is so wrong with that?

I respectfully suggest that all the people opposing Rand Paul please put their arguments against him into a more logical format. Once they do so I will be more willing to listen to their arguments. All I am hearing/reading right now is emotion, which is what Socialists and Obama-lovers feed off of. We Ron Paul supporters are better then that and can put forward more logical arguments. Not saying I agree with everything Rand is doing, but I have yet to hear real logic from the people who oppose him.

I'm Free like a Willy! Happy Day! Oops thats a bit of a cliche!

I can't believe so many

fail to see the finacial records are being used as a 'smoke screen' to keep the real reason, Israel, out of the headlines. However, this is also being used to provide cover for those who it could harm politically for using Israel's welfare to determine our countries foreign policy. There are many people in the Liberty Movement who don't really understand the Israel equation works to undermine not only our foreign policy, but is also very connected to our economics, morality, and spirituality as a nation. I'm not sure if there are many who are ignorant to the whole picture, or subconsciously hoping Rand hasn't sold out to this faction. Raimondo and those from the American Conservative are making harsh accusations, but I believe they are doing this to hopefully make Rand realize what he is getting into and escape the blackmailing point of no return. It's a dagerous endevour to not be inline with the Lobby, AIPAC, but going along with them will try your mortal soul. Rand still has the chance to stand for good will or what some Christian's believe 'The Golden Rule', and draw the apostate following Christians, back to not only the True teachings of Christ, but convince them to join the Liberty movement. Rand has the opportunity to complete the vision of his father's purpose of following the Founder's intent of a Constitutional Republic, or join the force who is helping to detstroy it. The Fed and Israel are owned and controlled by the same people, so as he gets deeper into their trap, his stand against the Fed will begin to wane as well as his fight for personal Liberties.

If Rand doesn't vote to confirm Hagel

He has lost my support in any future election. Hagel is by far the most pro-peace Obama nominee we could have asked for. This coming from a diehard Rand supporter.

Hagel is NOT pro peace. Obama

Hagel is NOT pro peace. Obama isd not pro peace. Pull your head out.

You are a fucking moron

that is all.

Agreed

I hope he is just going through the motions and will then vote to confirm when it comes up again.

Lesser of evils?

I'm not usually a "lesser of the evils" voter but Dan Carlin made a good case for why this guy is the best of the people that were considered for the position. Like Gary Johnson and most other libertarians I don't adhere to volunteerist/libertarian/anarchist values completely, but I mostly do. If this was the only guy that was going to have different ideas than all of the rest of them then I may have voted for the lesser of evils in this case also. Regardless, I don't see a chance in hell of Rand getting the repub nomination in 16. Doug Casey says it will be Hillary vs. a Republican war general and I think that's a good guess.

Two sides

To be honest, there are so many sides to look at this thing. First of all, do we really think that anyone Obama nominated is going to be anything other than an interventionist? Come on, really? With that in mind, you think you need to vote, "No."

On the other hand you have those who say you have to vote yes because he is "better" than a lot of people...probably better than the average GOP nominee would be. True...but does that mean that just because you are better, you should get a yes vote? If so, we are right back to why we should have voted for ROmney...or voted for Obama. (Of course, I don't think that way so I voted for neither.)

Then, you could think that if Rand is going to vote "no" it shows how principled he is...how he couldn't support based on anything but principle...but then you are back to why he supported Romney.

To me...a no vote by most is just a ploy to appease the war hawks on the right...but a yes vote would be to stick it to the establishment....so I don't know what to think...except to go back to the basics and think things through principally and vote "no" since he really is like 95% of the rest of them, an interventionist.

One side.

Vote your conscience.

Appeasing is what got us into this stinking mess in the first place.

This is not middle school where you vote popularity or because your SO-CALLED friends do so. Stand on your own, and be judged accordingly. If one truly cares about this country, constituents can then make a well informed decision based upon facts, and not chaotic confusion which in the end causes them to waver positions. Republican party is case in point - which have become nothing more than centrist-leftists in the new world order.

I don't typically look at mainstream news, but here you go. Take from it what you wish:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/07/wh...

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Why is Raimondo so upset

Why is Raimondo so upset about this? Just because Hagel has said some semi-critical things about Israel doesn't make him a staunch non-interventionist who's above reproach or something

If you look at Hagel's voting record

one might wonder why so called Ron Paul people are supporting Hagel. I've mentioned various tactics that people use to bolster themselves and weaken others and this could very well be a flag for Justin.. Either he's ill-informed on Hagel or he may not be on the up and up himself.

Don't think for a second that the things we tried to do with delegates wasn't being and IS being tried on us as well.

If one were a liar and had few moral issues with it or felt the ends justified the means, one could pretend to be a "hardcore" supporter of Ron Paul.

Cult of personality as a political weapon. Happens all the time.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

It's really odd that

It's really odd that supposedly hardcore noninterventionist libertarians are so trusting and approving of Barack Obama's pick to head possibly the most important Cabinet position

ProudAmericanFirst made a

reference to a comment by someone on ronpaulforums.com..

"Daily Paul is a liberal hell whole"

This site has been inundated with liberals on both sides of the two party system because it has gained some light, which makes it a target..

Now if I didn't know his voting record, I could speculate all Liberty-like as to why Obama did that to make myself feel better, like it was some sort of sign that we are winning...

I see it for what it is.. same old shit.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Rand is right on this one.

Rand is right on this one. Hagel sits on the board of the Chevron corp. He proffited from pushing through black box voting machines, about 1-5 million in stocks. This guy does not have the public's interest at heart. Justin should do his research. Hagel has eighteen years of voting records to peruse through.

You pegged it!

One aspect I do utterly enjoy about Rand is his independence. Keep in mind he's no more swayed by any Republican group-think than he is swayed by personal opinions from Raimondo, Greenwald, or McConnell. Future retrospect will no doubt find him remarkably, coincidentally, and equally aligned [or not] with Raimondo, Greenwald, McConnell, and the general Republican group-think. One way in which he is exactly like his father [and Ralph Nader] is that he is exquisite in ultimately expressing his irreverence regarding what others think of him personally.

Hagel is no dove. He'll likely want to move troops from Afghanistan to Africa. He reminds me of Colin Powell. We eventually saw Powell's true colors.

Hagel is no dove? Ron Paul isn't a DOVE either...

Ron Paul isn't an isolationist though by voicing concerns about "pre-emptive" war and other novel neo-con concepts he was labeled an non-interventionist: and worse by establishment Republicans and the Media.

Hagel is the closest thing we've seen to a Republican with a Ron Paul like non-aggressive foreign policy... why do you and Rand Paul suddenly believe the "lies & innuendo" that are being used to dis-credit Hagel. We've seen this before on DailyPaul and we should be fully immune.

Justin Raimondo wrote an essay on Antiwar.com a couple of weeks ago supporting Hagel for the simple reason that Hagel's appointment to run the DOD is a direct repudiation of the neo-con's and their influence in Washington.

In some ways, Rand has stopped the wooden stake frombeing driven into the NEOCON chest where their heart would be if they had one.

It's REALLY simple.

My point was to imply that Rand's apparent alignment with NeoCons is so far only that, apparent. I've seen no evidence that Rand opposes Hagel's nomination as the NeoCons might. Rand is simply not ready to approve the nomination until Hagel addresses Rand's questions. Hagel has not sufficiently done so. Why bother to pretend engaging an appointment process if it is not actually engaged and taken seriously. What I like best about Rand [and his father] is that he hasn't yet been lulled into the mindset in which one might see Senate proceedings as pageantry. Rand doesn't oppose Hagel, nor does he support him. Rand's holding out until Hagel answeres his damed questions. He appears to be the only undecided man left in the country. Raimondo, McCain, and other stalwarts decided long before the approval process. The weight of close decisions often falls on the likes of Rand, those that are patient and not hasty in judgement. We are not witnessing a cookie cutter or a turncoat. We are witnessing the thoroughness of someone who takes his job seriously.

Please direct me to the "lies

Please direct me to the "lies and innuendo". The fact is Hagel voted for the Patriot Act. Hagel voted to establish the United States Department of Homeland Security, supported increasing Defense Department spending, voting in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act every year he served in the Senate.

In the private sector, he serves on the board of directors of Chevron Corporation, Deutsche Bank's Americas Advisory Board, and the advisory board of Corsair Capital, and is a director of the Zurich Holding Company of America and a senior advisor to McCarthy Capital Corporation. All verifiable facts and too many conflicts of interests. Can someone please wedge a big stick in that revolving door!?!