-15 votes

Justin Raimondo on Rand: Turncoat

Justin Raimondo ‏@JustinRaimondo

It's time for libertarians to treat Rand Paul like the turncoat he is: boycott. No $$, no support, & start calling him Paul the Lesser.


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This is pouting:
And my comment was not negative nor did it have any modicum of 'attack dog tactics' in it. It was actually mediator-esque. My post did say that both sides were a bit overboard (including me). Did you read it?

LRC blog

-for me somebody there always manages to hit the nail on the head:

War-Crazed Republicans and Conservatives
Posted by Laurence Vance on February 14, 2013 06:56 PM
According to the Washington Post, Senate Republicans blocked a vote on Thursday for Chuck Hagel’s nomination as secretary of defense. Now, I am no fan of Hagel. But why are Republicans in the Congress and their conservative supporters outside of the Congress so against Hagel? Regardless of what they say, the reason is because Hagel is not seen as being as bloodthirsty and war-crazed as they are. The GOP cannot be reformed or made libertarian leaning. It is fully devoted to the warfare state.

The GOP is being reformed

I'm in the GOP and I'm seeing it from a front row seat. The creeps who have held the Libertarian Party back by FORCING the nominations of Republicans instead of Libertarians is how the LP remains marginalized, and now they want to spread their apathy to Rand and the GOP.


If anyone ever told you talking the GOP would be a cake walk, they lied. I'm fortunate, ny committee is a Liberty committee.. there are other's, and if it's not yours. maybe it's because you are not there?

The Republican party can never be trusted

Take Over the Republican Party?
Posted on May 17, 2012 by Lew Rockwell
It's like trying to take over the Gambino Family. In Nevada, the mob known as the RNC is joining with the Romney Family to set up a new party to bypass the Paulians. The establishment group will be seated in Tampa. It's like the 1952 convention, when Eisenhower stole the nomination from Taft by tossing out Taft delegations, under the aegis of Earl Warren, and seating Ike establishmentarians instead. Warren was rewarded with the chief justiceship of the Supremes, and wreaked huge harm. The Republican party can never be trusted. It is, after all, an adjunct of the federal government. (Thanks to Eric Garris)

So what?

Republican party isn't where you put trust. I trust in Jesus, not the GOP.

Either you want to materialize Ron Paul's dream of RESTORING THE REPUBLIC, or you're debating why not, or how you can achieve this without a party, or a third party, or a new party, or the Democratic party.. any party but the GOP, and maybe that's exactly why Ron Paul picked the GOP?


Get with it, or debate why you don't. YOU DON'T. Ok Nothing wrong with that. Do what you want.

if you think politics

is what the Ron Paul Revolution is all about, i'd say you've missed a huge part of the message.

They are always eerily 'right on' over there.

Good find.

Yesterday The News Was That He Voted Not To End Debate

For example, use the Daily Caller by commentor below and the article ends with: “That is also why I voted to not end debate on the Hagel nomination,” Paul said in a statement. “I do not believe Sen. Hagel has adequately explained his activities and their financing since he left the Senate, and I believe this criteria is especially important when dealing with the revolving door between government and the private sector.”

I'm not sure that Raimondo is making the right argument or accusation - unless there is different news today, 2/15, then one can not say that Rand won't vote in favor of Hagel.


Kiss my ass. Rands first national issue is making sure politicians dont have the power to kill American citizens. Wake up.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

The same Justin Raimondo

who wrote biography of M. Rothbard did not mind that Rothbard was campaigning against Goldwater and promoting a socialist party instead. That shows the level of integrity.

If you're reading this Mr. Raimondo

I do not understand your adoration and support for Chuck Hagel, as his record clearly shows he is not the noninterventionist/antiwar activist you've attempted to paint him as. Supporting Senator Hagel only serves to provide cover for President Obama's war mongering.

Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
Voted YES on $17.9 billion to IMF. (Mar 1998)
Impose sanctions and an import ban on Burma. (Oct 2007)
Implement Darfur Peace Agreement with UN peacekeeping force. (Feb 2008)
Voted NO on requiring FISA court warrant to monitor US-to-foreign calls. (Feb 2008)
Voted YES on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad. (Aug 2007)
Voted NO on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)

Rated 0% by SANE, indicating a pro-military voting record. (Dec 2003)

So what gives Justin? Seems to me you're pointing your finger at the wrong man.

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You are missing the point

The fact is Chuck Hagel has acquired all of the RIGHT enemies.

Neocon McCain voted NO on Hagel nomination
Neocon Graham voted NO on Hagel nomination
Neocon AIPAC voted no on Hagel nomination
Neocon etc, etc, ad nauseum voted NO on Hagel...

First we take out the neocons, then we take out the libs...

I have not missed the point.

Being the enemy of my enemy does not make Senator Hagel my friend. I care not what side of the aisle his supporters and detractors reside on.

Mr. Raimondo writes for antiwar.com and is clearing supporting an interventionist here, and while I've had mad respect for him in the past - this cheerleading for Hagel that he's been engaged in over the past month has painted him in a dubious light.

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antiwar.com vs AIPAC

In your eyes, and according to your own lack of response to my AIPAC references, antiwar.com is somehow a bigger threat to America than AIPAC? Is that your argument?

You say cheerleaders FOR Hagel make him unacceptable, I say cheerleaders for Israel are unacceptable.

If you want to be a vassal to Israel that is your choice, but it doesn't fit into my AMERICA 1ST world view.

If Hagel isn't confirmed, it will only STRENGTHEN the hand of the Israeli lobby in congress. There is NO doubt about it.

Is that what you want?

That's a false arguement

Hagel does not = antiwar, and supporting him provides cover for any of Obama's future interventions on behalf of Israel and AIPAC.

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Thats not my argument...

My argument is that Neocons = AIPAC

AIPAC is leading the resistance to Hagel, so if you do not want AIPAC rulers you have to support the people that AIPAC opposes.

Hagel is close to the top of the list of Israeli Apartheid detractors, he will be a better foil against the influence of AIPAC than anyone else that can be nominated by Obama.

It is YOUR support for McCain, and the neocons that is providing aid and comfort to the Israeli Apartheid occupation of the US federal government, not my support of Hagel.

Rand is not representing AIPAC

Rand has an issue with Hagel's "private" investments/interests that may appear to make him biased (corrupt) for the job.

Military contracts, many companies have military contracts, democrats and republicans are invested in competing corporations, and he who controls the defense, controls what corporations will be in business and what one's wont. AIPAC, which represents Israel's MIC, does not want to lose it's contracts.. Rand's issue is completely different, despite his visit to Israel, Ron Paul has also said, "Israel is our friend".

Just for an exercize, how about you find 5 good things about Israel. If you can't do that, then you need to study Israel more, because even HELL has it's warm spots.

Ok so Rand isn't supporting AIPAC

But YOU are.

Giving Paul the 'lesser' a free pass on his 'reasons' for opposing Hagel, that just happen to fit nicely inside the AIPAC 'stop Hagel at all costs' smear campaign, oh so reminiscent of the AIPAC 'stop Ron Paul at all costs' smear campaign, WELL THAT'S JUST PLAIN FOOLISH, I don't give anybody, except Paul the 'greater' a free pass...only he has EARNED it.

Stating that Israel is our 'friend', in no way makes Ron Paul a Zionist shill for the Palestine occupation.

You can stuff your Zio-love where the sun don't shine...

Paul "the lessor" according to Raimondo the REPUBLICAN

who apparently wants AUPAC Rubio, is working for you?

Rand has stated that he is not supporting Hagel because he is concerned of his private interests and investments un the MIC. That's very valid, least Hagle's decisions are made from his personal investments in the MIC.

Your hate is the only point you really make.

Why is it valid?

There is nothing logically valid about your deference to 'baby' Doc Paul...

My love for the USA and the constitution is what drives my hatred for AIPAC rule, the CIA has a name for it, it's called 'BLOWBACK'...

I won't accept AIPAC victory without a fight, ever, anyone who, whether inadvertently or by design furthers the agenda of AIPAC is just in the way of the restoration of our Republic that I am committed to.

Rand has his good strong points TO BE SURE like his opposition to Brennan, to me that is a VERY GOOD thing and it weakens AIPAC in my opinion, his opposition to Hagel on the other hand, still my opinion, he is strengthening AIPAC and it's GOP lackeys, so here 'baby' Doc is only batting .500, will that cost him my vote in 2016? Not a deal breaker, Rand can still EARN my support, but he has to openly oppose AIPAC or I will vote for someone who does.

Being committed to Rand 'baby' doc Paul this soon after the last election seems more than a bit 'premature'(sorry couldn't resist the baby metaphor lol) considering he has barely any record of his own to stand on.

It's valid because

let's say Hagel is invested with Bechtel, and Haliburton actaully has a better logistic, security and intel force to do a better job, but Hagel is more comcerned for his investments, and the Deomocrats that put him on office, than the Republicans he left behind when he became an investor in Bechtel. It's the American people who would suffer from the losses, while Bechtel rolls in the gold from insurance and government bailouts as spoils.

I get it you don't like Rand. Your insults reflect on you, not Rand.

There are many PACs. AIPAC is not the biggest, the strongest or the most corrupt. AIPAC does get MSM attention, and it attracts more people who hate it than love it. So, bashing AIPAC does not stop AIPAC but perpetuates AIPAC who feeds off the hate.

That is definitely not validation

All that is, is 'reasoning', or opining.

What bearing do these red herring hypotheticals of yours have to do anything we've been talking about?

And no the hell you DON'T get it!

I never said I don't like Rand, I said emphatically that I don't like being under the control of Israeli apartheid neocon AIPAC, and that it is Rand's alliance with the obvious AIPAC smear campaign against Hagel that i take issue.

You don't believe the GOP submission to AIPAC is a total affront to EVERYTHING American, I do.

Whether it is the biggest, strongest, or most corrupt PAC is also just speculation on your part.

Rand Who? s u c k s.

Raimondo has the curly twerp's number.

Turncoat is hardly the word.

Rand Who is a NeoCon.

Don't be fooled.

Rand will do anything, anything, anything to suck up to the GOP

Anything except stand by the principles that caused us all to love his principled old man. Rand is nothing but a second rate poseur expanding his political career as an ersatz mirage, a sort of Trojan Horse for those who dreamed of a better world.


Hagel by his past voting record regarding FP he is a neocon, and that would make Raimondo the turn coat for supporting him.

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

Debbie's picture


Justin Raimondo is the turncoat.


I don't tweet

So if Justin actually has something to say, he might try writting anouther of his long wordy articles that are much ado about nothing, such as this.

Raimondo is a republican.
The GOP is pushing Rubio, gave him $30 Mil
MSM is trying to make Rubio out to be tea party
Tea Party isn't fooled
Grassroots GOP Ron -> Rand Paul are backing Rand over Rubio
Raimondo is having his own speach outside the GOP convention.. (if it's in the GOP convention I've seen or heard nothing.

And now he's going to come to the CA GOP convention to speak and tell us Rand is "he lessor" and he's calling to not support Rand?

He's telling Republicans like him to not back Rand.. while the GOP funds and pushed Rubio.. and so who do you have Raimondo?

RON PAUL? Come on...