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Stephan Kinsella on AVTM: Ron Paul Likely to Lose Suit

Kinsella: "My guess he [Ron Paul] is going to lose this suit." (12:58 to 13:56).

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Get instead!

who gives a rat's *** about I've only gone there by mistake a few times, they obviously are not true supporters b/c they are clinging onto their ill-begotten name, let's ignore them and let them wallow in obscurity.

Same here

I typed the domain in directly expecting to find the official website. Though there was no "fansite" disclaimer at the time, I realized pretty quickly it wasn't RP's site, departed and never returned. I remeber thinking at the time that it was "ballsy" for someone who isn't Ron Paul to grab up that domain and use it. Talk about bait n' switch.

What a low wattage patent attoney! Sad!

If this fellow is really an attorney, I would never use him! He sounds like one of the libertarians disgruntled over Ron Paul not running third party!

As far as his explanation of this case, he is far afield and way off base. One wonders if he read the case! Ron Paul is not taking anyone's property. He is retrieving his own property! The contracts to which every internet domain user agrees, include the meaning of what is domain ownership and when you no longer own! End of mystery!

This is mostly hot air in no small part thanks to the host with an agenda!

Enough already with the, 'all government is evil, Ron Paul uses government, therefore Ron Paul is bad and should loose this case', mantra!

This host and his methods seem to be doing as much to split the freedom movement, which should be bringing people together, as the other Faux/CanCan News are doing to destroy Paul!


dumb move on Ron's part.

There is a glaring question being ignored here is selling Ron Paul's name and IDENTITY. Not the name generic name "Ron Paul", but the specific name attached to the identity of Ron Paul.
If you created a brand of shoes, say "Best Shoes" and buy the domain and make money primarily by the selling of "Best Shoes" all my profits arise from the work of another person.

Now if the owner of sold chickens instead of Best Shoes Kinsella might have a point.

I can understand Dr. Paul~~

He wants the website, BECAUSE it's HIS name, and it isn't just any Ron Paul, and we all know this.

But, the argument is that the website benefits due to using a famous "personality" named Dr. Ron Paul, coupled with the problem that Dr. Paul doesn't have any control over its content or how it's run. It's not that they did anything wrong. They didn't. Dr. Paul could say the same thing about Daily, because of the advertisement and benefit to Michael Nystrom. It's similar, since we all know who this website is talking about. And, that isn't just any old "Ron Paul".

But, I just wish and hope Dr. Paul will go ahead and just take the website
Liberty FOR FREE, as a new path forward towards our mutual goals of "liberty".

Otherwise, it sounds like the only way they can resolve this issue is for the RP website people to come up with an accurate estimate of the costs involved in developing and managing the website, plus the losses of some of their future revenue (which may not be all that much). Then, they can approach Dr. Paul with a figure that will be reasonable. I understand they wouldn't want to just give it away. I'm sure Michael Nystrom wouldn't want to do that either, if Dr. Paul wanted this website, you know?

How does Dr Paul differ from any other "celebrity"?

As I understood it, though I could be wrong, there was something introduced that prevented people from taking a celebrity's right to their own name, as a web site. I think Dr Paul qualifies s a celebrity.

Why won't Ron just give it back? My thoughts are that they are wanting to cash in, with one final sale of the site, to Dr Paul. They cashed in with a lot of merchandise sold to Ron Paul supporters. (I wonder, now if they were supporters, at all!) I, certainly, would not be promoting their site, to buy Chinese merchandise, for us, Liberty Movement, supporters. has explained in their letter to Dr. Paul...

"On May 1st, 2008 we launched a grassroots website at that became one of the most popular resources dedicated exclusively to you and your ideas. We put our lives on hold and invested 4.5 years of hard work into you, and Ron Paul 2012. Looking back, we are very happy with what we were able to achieve with unlimited enthusiasm and limited financial resources.

After careful analysis of the available data, we are convinced that separating our grassroots website from would be counterproductive. There are literally hundreds of thousands of inbound links directed to specific articles, videos and blog posts at that would all be misdirected if you put up a new website at the domain.

Also, we have many email addresses, social media accounts, t-shirt designs etc. linked to the domain (in particular the popular Facebook page "") that we would have to change or abandon. In short, such an abrupt change would lead to chaos on the Internet and - at least temporarily - disrupt the message of liberty.

To avoid these complications we'd like to offer you an alternative domain name,, for your new website at no cost whatsoever. Please don't use a monstrosity such as "" as is being speculated on the forums. is an attractive, high quality alternative, and it won't cost you anything. (Other than the annual renewal fee; all domains have to be renewed each year and that costs about $10 per year.)"

Since May 1st 2008...

The real RON PAUL has been fighting for liberty since May 1, 1938!!! (The first 2 1/2 years of his life he was a democrat lol). May 1st 2008, yes that was soooooooooooooooooo early, you guys really were the "founding fathers" of the movement. I can't get through the rest of the statement. In all seriousness... thanks for posting it, it saves me from giving the fake any more clicks :) peace

Adam really torques my jaw

The first time I heard him speak, I thought he would be a great champion of the cause of Liberty. He turned out to be a loose canon.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

Kinsella is an idiot. I'll

Kinsella is an idiot. I'll go with Dr. Paul.

Thomas Jefferson 1800, 1804; James Madison 1808, 1812; Rand Paul 2016, 2020.

Cyril's picture

Same here. I'd be reluctant to bet either way.

Same here (modulo "... is an idiot" that I strike out, AFAIC). I'd be reluctant to bet either way.

But I sure wish Dr. Ron Paul and his folks win their case.

Seriously. I am sorry, but IMO there are much, much better usages for $250K than just getting a DNS domain name which holds your name.

Ron Paul folks had appraised it at $50K, tops, that which I take it they'd have been willing to pay for, and that which IMO was already too much.

Again: just in my opinion.

Well, time and the ICANN will tell.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I hope Dr. Paul is able to acquire It would be of great benefit to the liberty movement. I am equally hopeful that he acquires it in a just manner or it could be harmful to the liberty movement. Ron Paul's claim to the domain isn't so clear to me. Then again, I'm a novice when it comes to understanding these issues.

A few links from

Trademark - Mises Wiki (Not sure who wrote this)

Trademark versus Copyright and Patent, or: Is All IP Evil? - Stephan Kinsella

Discussion at Mises Forum

I'm curious to see what Lew Rockwell's views were on trademarks and the rights regarding web domains before Ron Paul became an issue. I think I know where Kinsella stood, though I'm not sure where the others stood at and

Ron Paul .com is a fan site

I wonder why they just won't give it up to the good doctor? Amazing

It is no fan site

Its business model is to use the image and reputation of Ron Paul to sell merchandise, and ultimately to profit from his name by selling the domain-name registration.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

some good info

and discussion

Michael Nystrom's picture

My lawyer said the same thing

He is an IP lawyer who helped me defend myself when Righthaven attempted to sue and take possession of the domain. He said it was a real longshot that Ron Paul would actually win.

He might just be trying to use it as a way to pressure the owners into a settlement - especially if the owners are ignorant of the law.

It is also the opinion of techdirt that he would lose, if he were to pursue it.

I'm honestly surprised you

I'm honestly surprised you dont use Kinsella. I'm almost sure he knows who you are and would probably be willing to work out some favorable deal for a fellow libertarian-type.

He doesn't exactly need the money and tends to enjoy helping.

Does Kokesh have a vendetta against . . .

Dr. Paul?

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Nice to see Adam dressed

The "Howard Stern" set rip off he should ditch, and get a better connection for his quest and viewers.

Then Adam wants to be a funny guy and cuts off the guest's answer,, begins a new queston.. 10:00 Kinsella gives good answers

Good qestion by Adam follows, and Kinsella says Ron pPaul is ripping off his supporters. There's a bombshell.

Kinsella explains that the problem isn't RON PAUL, but the law, being the governemnt's involvment. "extortation of property"

RP using trademark law to violate freedom of speach.

Adam insults grassroots calls them zombies.. need to look at issues.

Kinsella thinks RP will lose.

Adam interupts again.. and has his "Stern Boys" ask questions, so Adam can interupt.. lame question and Adam' going to answer.. Kinsella is schooling Adam, but Adam must have other ideas than being schooled.

Kinsella suggests give Ron Paul the domain and have nothing to do with him.. that would hurt.

Kisella suggests Ron Paul be the messanger and come out against patent, copywrite and trademark laws..

Thank you Adam for the interview.

dAMn Expletive!


What is the point of having free will if one cannot spit in the eye of the destiny others leave you with? #ActorofConscience

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