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Implications if the Sasquatch DNA results are verified

At first blush this may seem off-topic but it has potentially very deep philosophical, social, legal, and political implications.

Two days ago Dr. Melba Ketchum, owner/director of a forensic DNA laboratory in Texas, issued an immediately controversial paper describing the numerous tests that she and several independent labs she contracted ran on over 100 hair, blood, saliva, and tissue samples of alleged or suspected Sasquatch/Bigfoot source from 14 states and two Canadian provinces. She reports very startling conclusions.

All the sample tests showed fully modern human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA)of the types arising from Europe and the Middle East. At the same time all samples showed nuclear DNA that had some gene sequences in common with humans and certain other primates but also some sequences that matched nothing in the Genbank® all-species database. (Some samples collected for this study were screened out because under magnification they matched known wildlife, domestic animals, or were clearly human. Control samples and samples of DNA from the collectors were also tested as a precaution.)

These results suggest that all the samples in this study came from hybrid creatures with at least one purely human woman somewhere in the lineage, with all other females in the lineage being either fully human or hybrid females carrying human mtDNA. This can be determined because DNA found in the mitochondria are always inherited from the mother; only nuclear DNA (nuDNA) is mingled at fertilization.

Besides the sensational zoological/anthropological value of Ketchum's results, if verified by others, what do they imply for society? What are the ramifications of large, hairy, smelly, apparently nocturnal creatures that are in some portion genetically human living in wooded areas of North America and reportedly other continents? Ketchum's findings, if proved accurate, mean that we have company -- company that has for many generations been supremely independent of their small, weak, civilized cousins who have miserable night vision.

OK, I know there is inevitable smirking right about now so let's be a bit lighthearted here and consider:

Were Mongoloid Native Americans illegal aliens invading Bigfoot's territory?
If a Sasquatch "tribe" protests a dam project, would it have legal recourse?
Is Bigfoot a secret plot to advance Agenda 21?
Is Agenda 21 directed at restoring the territorial rights of Sasquatch?
If a man impregnates a Sasquatch, should he have parental rights?
Should Bigfoot be required to show proof of citizenship?
Where would we deport an illegal Sasquatch anyhow?
Sasquatch reportedly kill and eat deer. Shouldn't they have to get a deer license?
Or be ticketed for jaywalking?
Public nudity?
Will we have to build extra-sturdy jail cells to hold all the big, hairy scofflaws?
Will police need to carry an EXTRA-high-voltage taser?

OK, back to serious: There is bound to be a huge outcry from religious fundamentalists. Bigfoot is the AntiChrist or the spawn of Satan. A new target for the KKK. Some stuffed-shirt anthropologists will have heart attacks or commit suicide because their pet theories that have made it into textbooks will go out on the trash heap. Human exceptionalism will be taken down a few pegs. Natural rights theory will need to be reworked, expanded.

Of course these ideas have all been thought of before by a courageous few Sasquatch researchers (yes, I was one back in my younger days). Now, however, due to the implications of the Ketchum DNA study, we must all potentially face these questions in a serious manner.

Note to scoffers: You are not alone. The scientific community will be especially vicious in your behalf. However, Ketchum has received offers to re-test the samples from her study by other DNA researchers so the necessary process of scientifically verifying or debunking her work has begun.

I cannot give you Ketchum's paper, which is highly technical anyway. Like most scientific papers you can order it online for a fee. I'm just not sure where to order it though as it was sent to me for comment. There has been much criticism of the report, mainly by people who haven't read it, beginning months before its release. There is plenty to see by Googling "Ketchum Bigfoot," "Ketchum Sasquatch," or "Ketchum DNA."



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Well then

you've been far ahead of the rest of us Nui. It was a complete surprise to me, even though I was aware of reports of inter-species pregnacies.

The case of Zana in Russia was one such case. She was large and hair-covered, captured and kept captive by a wealthy man in town. Eventually she calmed down and seemed eager to please so he set her free to come and go as she pleased. She would willingly help out with the chores on his farm but had no use for clothing, cooked food, or enclosed spaces. She never suffered from the cold.

Eventually young men around town discovered she was a willing sex participant and they impregnated her several times. The first two times her caretaker let her keep the infant but they soon died due to her insistence on washing the newborn in the cold river. Subsequent births were monitored and the infant taken away to be raised by a willing human wet nurse. If I recall correctly two of Zana's hybrid sons and one daughter were brought up in the town and all were buried there when they died. Ancient DNA work is allegedly being attempted on their remains.

You can Google "Zana, Russia" and read more about the case.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

This is funny. I saw this for nearly a week and...

did not post it because I thought it was not only "too weird" but irrelevant. However, to add to the discussion,a channeled messages from "the Cassiopeians" several years ago said that "Bigfoot" was actually the present inhabitants of Mars and that those sighted here had been brought here by either aliens our the "secret space program."

Believe it or not, a Burt Reynolds 1970s movie called "Skullduggery" brought up the very same moral and ethical issues mentioned here.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066384/

Thanks. I never heard of that movie

but I just watched the trailer. Maybe I'll rent it and watch the whole thing. Could become relevant soon.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Ha, ha!

Curiosity is in hot pursuit!

Actually I'd like to find some life on Mars, even if only deep rock microbes.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Bigfoot DNA Discovered? Not So Fast

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/bigfoot-dna-discovered-not-fast-182...

I can be a skeptic too. However, if you want some compelling Mars stuff, try these.

http://www.ebtx.com/mars/marstube.htm

or http://newsetal.com/?p=4049

Regarding your Yahoo link,

which I just now read, by the deputy editor of "Skeptical Inquirer," many of his points are valid criticisms, ones I've echoed myself. However, having read Ketchum's actual report, I am impressed with her commitment to scientific methodology in the conduct of her research on the 110 samples. She describes multiple steps taken to eliminate contamination, consistent no doubt with her company's forensic and animal genealogy work. She may be female and blonde but she seems to know her business. Furthermore, she contracted seven independent labs to replicate her tests, ran control tests, and ran human DNA profiles on many if not all who provided the samples.

It is no surprise to me that Ketchum struck out with the normal peer-reviewed journals. Paleo-anthropology can accommodate minor adjustments to its prevailing theories and evolutionary/migratory timetables but radical findings are universally repudiated as if Holy Doctrines were being challenged by unwashed heathens or apostates. I'm sure Ketchum would have preferred not to self-publish and I'm equally sure that her paper and findings will be reviled until such time as they are replicated by other researchers.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Wow!

I haven't checked any official Mars photo sites yet but if these are legit they are gripping as Hell.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

You will not find the "tennis shoe" shot of the Moon "castle"...

as those are screenshots from Richard Hoagland's slideshow videos (included in the NEWSETAL article, if you have a couple of hours). I know, I created the screenshots for the article. Thanks for being honestly impressed, if skeptical. However, you will find many sources for the "glass tubes," including, I believe the official NASA site.

Dr. Ketchum....or was it Catch-him

maybe some of her colleagues could shed some light.

Dr. Scike, Dr. Phish, Dr. Pond, and Dr. Gullyball would all love to pawntificate on this new scientific discovery.

Hey.

Leave Phish out of this. ;-)

And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

:)

I know... I mean, I 'm still pining away... Once you go 'Squatch...

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

So the DNA shows that Big Foot is a

Human hybrid? That's weird, without some more evidence that's a tough sell.

Yeah, very weird!

It's nothing I would have expected. Could Paranthropus breed with Homo sapiens? We know the existing known apes cannot because they all have 24 chromosome pairs while humans have 23. At minimum a "pure-bred" Sasquatch would have to have 23 chromosomes in order to viably impregnate a human.

Some think there may be a surviving population of Gigantopithecus that accounts for the multitude of hairy giant reports in North America, Asia, and elsewhere. If so they are damned stealthy. Also I think all paleontologist agree that Giagantopithecus is an ape (pithecus = ape).

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Good questions. If

Good questions. If Neanderthalensis could interbreed with H. erectus I don't see why an earlier, related pongid couldn't.

You're undoubtedly familiar with Nikolai Valuev. I'd love to peek at his DNA.

All depends

on when (and maybe HOW) we went from 24 to 23 paired chromosomes. No, you're the first to introduce me to Nikolai Valuev. I'm settling down now to a little YouTube watching of his fights before I turn in :-)

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Cool beans. He's actually a

Cool beans. He's actually a very nice guy from everything I've read about him.

Do you

Do you live in Washington State or Colorado and why are you Bogarting and not sharing?

New Hampshire

and I'm not entitled to the paper. It was sent to me without permission.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Right.

What do you do with intellectual property that someone else ripped off and forwarded to you? Most articles in science journals are available for a fee so there's theoretically a real dollar value at issue. Good luck getting the paper but it won't be from me.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

My reply to you was sent more as a joke hence the " "

but now taking this to debate - Would you normally receive/accept something that was stolen without your permission? If you feel so strongly about this, (a)why open it, (b)read it, and (c)post the "substance" of it?

Yeah, I figured you were joking

but I did weigh my options after receiving it and wanted to address it seriously. Since I was impressed with the paper and would therefore write a positive review I figured it would ultimately aid the author/researcher it whose property it was. In hindsight I think I should have contacted her and asked what she would like me to do with it.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Oh, so now the end justified the means?

What if someone else could ADD and help develop this?

Sarcastic/rhetorical question. I'm just busting your chops man. I'm a little on the mischievous/devil's advocate mood tonight, so please ignore. lol

Aaron Swartz where are you

when your needed most.

(lol) No, I don't think non-human primates...

...(nor any other non-human animals) should be afforded any of the rights of human beings. When the Sasquatch figures out how to farm, let me know. LOL

Anyway, I have a Sasquatch story. One time I was walking through the woods with some friends, it had just turned dark, and we started hearing this noise - couldn't figure out what it was at first. We were walking on a trail next to a large stream and we realized the sound was rocks falling into the water. This happened over and over again, dozens of times, and there was no overhanging cliff or anything like that over the water, so it seemed a bit odd - where the hell were these rocks coming from? Then, as we continued on our way, we started seeing rocks flying past our heads and across our path!

Now, if you didn't know, deer don't throw rocks. LOL. So what the hell was throwing rocks at us? You need HANDS to throw rocks. Could it have been people? Yes, that's possible, but it seems odd that people would have been hiding in the woods off the trail throwing rocks at us for half an hour - what would be the point? Moreover, even though these rocks were flying dangerously close to us, none of us ever got hit even once. That's quite an aim! And recall it was dark out, in the woods, so pitch black. Human beings don't have very good night vision, so were these people wearing night vision goggles or what?! Rock throwing, by the way, is a common behavior among primates such as chimpanzees. They use it to scare off other animals that are encroaching on their territory.

This occurred in woodlands in the Eastern US.

"Alas! I believe in the virtue of birds. And it only takes a feather for me to die laughing."

Yeah,

very commonly reported. Apparently sometimes their aim is off or else they're truly pissed. One guy reports being struck by a heavy chunk of branch that was flung his way. He was hurting. I don't know of any reports in which someone said they saw a Sasquatch throw a rock but I knew one man who claimed he met one on the trail at dusk and it extended its arm to the side and dropped a rock it had been carrying, He said he though it was a peace gesture so he reached down, picked up a rock, and did the same thing. The creature left and the man collected its several-pound rock and photographed it.

Some have recorded sounds very much like speech mixed in with snarls and raucous growls in areas that have had recent Sasquatch reports.

If finally proven to exist I suspect they will considerably blur the line we have drawn between man and animal.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

No on bigfoot, yes to agenda 21

Here we have a desperate attempt to bestow human rights onto animals.

I don't care about an animals liberty and neither do you. You don't care (or even notice) when one ant eats another so why pretend that you care about Bigfoot? Is it because you see yourself as a soulless animal and want people to care about your liberty?

If you watch for it, you'll see all kinds of propaganda selling this same agenda.

Did you catch "the body found" on the discovery channel? It was an hour long fantasy where this channel supposedly based on science tried to make the case that mermaids exist so we should respect their sovereign territory.

This Bigfoot nonsense is using the same method and just another offshoot of agenda 21 where a pseudo-scientist tries to bestow human rights onto animals. These people are genocidal mass murderers and liars who give human life less than no value. They even go as far as to declare human life "a disease destroying mother earth". Once you understand that you'll understand what they mean when they say "let's heal the world". They mean "let's kill off these worthless feeders".

When you're right, you're right!

But how can you be so SURE you're right? Sounds like you're deep into belief, just like the Church believing the Earth was the center of all existence during the time of Galileo.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

I don't really care

I don't really care what you believe, and I don't think you're even capable of honesty, so there's no point in trying to change your mind. You've proven yourself an unreliable source with an axe to grind against people of faith.

The sad part is you even acknowledge the obvious connection between Anthropomorphism and agenda 21, yet when I clarify that point offering other examples in media, you go on the attack against people of faith.

I say that you KNOW it's a fraud.

Boy, you are full of vinegar :-)

You seriously think that my example of the Church lashing out at Galileo is animosity on my part toward people of faith? Do you think the Church was entitled to enforce its belief that we were at the center of creation? Do you agree with that view? Do you think that was part of God's teachings via the Bible? If not, please accept it as just a friendly example of how sometimes not everything that SOME PEOPLE believe is so.

We all need to be on guard against unjustified beliefs, including our attachment to some idea that springs into our head to the exclusion of other realistic possibilities. Many of us are apparently so arrogant that we think we are gifted with the truth in all things. Only God is so gifted my friend.

FYI, no, I didn't see the Discovery Channel program you mention but I am familiar with "deep ecology" -- the desire to rid Nature of humanity's "vile presence." No, I'm not in league with those folks and neither are most Sasquatch researchers (although I suspect some are). Most are just curious and excited by the idea of something huge that has escaped recognition by Science. Now, because of the recent DNA results, many are even more excited. There are things we can learn from every one of God's creatures and the Sasquatch may be a gold mine of interesting discoveries.

Now, about those ants, no, I don't care if an ant eats its aunt but I will often pause to catch insects that are trapped indoors and release them outside. Don't you feel any fondness for God's creatures?

New Hampshire and Ecuador.