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Historic COURT Case to Challenge BBC’s 9/11 Coverage


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~Christopher M
Norfolk, VA

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Carrier Pigeon News Service: Excuse us. Napoleon lost.

1815. Page B17. Corrections: Carrier Pigeon News Service, Waterloo: Our apologies. Excuse us. Napoleon lost. We mistakenly sent the wrong carrier pigeon w/ the wrong message.

Congratulations to your Duke of Wellington. "Jolly smashing job!" you might say.
Corrected dispatch follows:

One of the most famous and consequential uses of real time knowledge occurred in Europe in 1815. Early in the 19th century information obtainable through communication channels about distant events was painstakingly slow to arrive. Roads were rough, unfinished, really little more than cart paths. There was no wire transmission or speedy organized courier services for delivering messages over vast distances. Word of the outcome of a battle, treaty or an important political affair could takes weeks or months to arrive where the result was most keenly anticipated.

The Battle of Waterloo is possibly the most famous military engagement in history. The battle site, the tiny, remote Belgian village of Waterloo, is synonymous today with one's "final act". Waterloo became Napoleon Bonaparte's denouement. His inglorious defeat by the British forces, commanded by the Duke of Wellington, expedited his exile to the tiny island of Elba and the decline of France as a military power for almost a century.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/1711198
We are sorry this news has taken us so long to prepare for dispatch. We hope to once again have our flock of carrier pigeons in service soon. To be certain this never happens again, our agents in London are preparing pigeon stew for their evening meal.

Our deepest regrets.

[Signed copy lost in transit]

Carrier Pigeon News Service, 1815

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Thanks. So, it was from Reuters?

Hmm. Good thing BBC had a "man on the ground" to relay wire service news! Reuter's explanation of how it came to know in advance made me laugh. Got it from a local story. He did it. She did it. I think when you report, in advance, that a 47-story building collapsed - in an area where (assuming a building not hit could collapse, no less so quickly) it might have been ANY nearby building, or maybe ALL the nearby buildings!, um, I think someone must have had... "a tip."

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.
~ John Muir

Reuters owns Associated Press. Somebody knew, You'd a thunk?

Pretending to be so idiotic is unbecoming to Reuters, AP or celestial objects falling from above.

"Slaughter," believe it or not... like it or not, contains "laughter."

My condolences.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Elements of the British government

As well as elements of ours, powerful elements.


I hope many people across the pond find out about this and show up to show support.

Lots going on in the world right now.

We are at a "Truth" tipping point when it comes to 9/11, The FED, and the endless wars. Once we get the "Truth Snowball" rolling down hill...there will be no stopping it!

Yeah, I Posted

about the hundredth monkey but nobody here bothered to read it.


sharkhearted's picture

Provide the link please.

I will be very interested to read it!

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

That's why bills like CISPA are so important

Internet regulation/communication is possibly the biggest threat to liberty in this day and age.

I think its too late ecard71

They can try...but there are too many ways around any kind of permanet "lockdown" on the internet and the truth.

Jeff Berwick wrote a good article about this the other day. I posted it earlier today:


Oh really?

Let me put a hypothetical coming from a citizen like me and not some mastermind think tank behind 9/11.

Say there's a false flag event, say a dirty bomb if you will. Now for NATIONAL SECURITY reasons that the government deems too dangerous and can't divulge, under government orders(think FCC) the internet companies will be shutting down ANY AND ALL internet connections to citizens for about a week(no air travel after 9/11) to however long it takes in the name of our SECURITY and SAFETY. NO wired or wireless signals. ONLY the government will have access while they make it safer for the rest of us. A LOT can happen within that time frame.

Not cost effective? When they have an agenda at stake and it's either that or possibly lose control, guess which one they'll choose. Remember TARP? The bank bail outs? The TOO BIG to fail companies? The auto industry? Could the government offer incentives, tax breaks, print out money to these companies, while at the same time warn them that non-compliance would carry severe penalties? Who wants to be the next Kim Schmitz, or next Aaron Schwartz for that matter? We all know what happened to Kennedy after he threatened to expose TPTB.

Couldn't happen? REALLY???........

One of the main military strategies is to take out communications and cause confusion. The government could also ration electricity(need that for the internet). Martial law is a very real possibility considering how close we've move towards arms registration and confiscation. Also, please see my reply here regarding a VERY possible draft:

Let's not let our guards down. Technology is ALWAYS changing. While it may change for both the "good" and "bad" guys, due to imposed costs and crackdowns the bad guys will eventually win.

Man wasn't meant to fly and carry their music catalog in their pockets either, but it happened.

"there are too many ways around any kind of permanet "lockdown" on the internet and the truth."
With ALL MY HEART I hope you and the author of that article are right. But realistically, I don't think you are. Let me know your thoughts.

BTW - Watch this:

(you can start at the 2:10 mark) and see if this doesn't sound familiar.

Can You Imagine

What would happen if all these mindless people with a cellphone permanently attached to their hands and ears suddenly couldn't use them? Talk about everyone becoming zombies! No phone to think for them. Oh my God what would it look like? I can live without the net but I don't. There are people though that wouldn't know what to do without it even for a day, much less a week or longer. I just hope that if it happens I am in Walmart at the time so I can see all those programmed zombies react! Might as well have SOME fun out of all this rotten mess this place is in!


I think it would be just like any blackout

we've experienced in the past. Recently, it was hurricane Sandy victims that had to deal with it. Nothing major in terms of riots happened. Long lines at the pump yeah, but no major looting and burning of stores like what happened after Rodney King. What happened after Rodney in Los Angeles was just another excuse to rob and cause destruction. People who lost their entire homes after hurricane Sandy didn't behave that way. Same goes for the North East blackout of 2003.

But you're right, MAJOR INCONVENIENCE for some people. I guess they'll actually have to talk to people instead of text them, huh?

sharkhearted's picture


However...remember that the (first) American Revolution was done without the internet or any of modern technology.

Also remember that the 60s revolution (love it or hate it) was done without the internet.

Americans are too disobedient by nature, and if they do DARE attempt to take away the internet, people ACROSS the political spectrum...will be outraged and probably everyone will take it to the streets at that point.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

I also remember

that back then, men were men - and sheep were scared(sorry couldn't help it).

What I mean is America as a whole has been dumbed-down and has lost its intelligence by tv and the school system, and has lost its "balls" due to fluoridation, vaccines, and pharmaceuticals. I highly doubt that men and women back in the Colonial days would've put up with half of the shit that sheep put up with today. Back in the 60's, AT LEAST we had mass demonstrations. Who does that now? Europe, Asia, and South America.

Why are we not in the streets? Why HAVEN'T we been out in the streets? Is it because we're so civilized and that considered "hippie" and unlawful behavior? Or could it be because we're to busy as a nation believing the msm propaganda BS that tells us that the economy is going up, jobs are being created, and troops are leaving the Middle East? Wait, let me get back to you, SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT JUST HAPPENED TO A KARDASHIAN. I THINK SHE BROKE A NAIL! See my point?

Have you seen the low turnouts at the pro-gun rallies at the nation's capitols lately. What kind of message does this low turn out send to politicians? Never mind that it wouldn't have received any msm coverage anyway. Remember the troop march in DC? While it was touching, it was ONLY 300 strong. Where were all the vets and families?

Back in colonial days, regardless if it was "ONLY" an irate minority third of the population that pushed for revolution, it was a STRONG, LOUD, THIRD of the population. What are we, like 10-15 million strong(hopefully)? Far from a third of the population. How many people actually voted for oBUMa? How many voted for his white counter-part? Too many IDIOTS chanting "oBUMa" and "USA". Sure our movement may be growing, but I don't think it's grown fast enough and I think people will finally take a stand when the thugs start ramping up their searches and seizures and start gun confiscation. It should have never have gotten as far as it already has.

Americans are too disobedient by nature, and if they do DARE attempt to take away the internet, people ACROSS the political spectrum...will be outraged and probably everyone will take it to the streets at that point.
I think it's also fair to say that the American Revolutionists wouldn't have stood for the Patriot Act to begin with. How much more America? When will ENOUGH be ENOUGH?

Also remember that while they may not have had the internet, they didn't necessarily HAVE TO RELY on it. Back then, 99.9% of the msm wasn't owned by the same 3 corporations. The same can be said about journalistic integrity. There were many "Ben Swanns" - REAL journalists that weren't teleprompter reading actors who were bought and paid for. It was also a young country where people also actively took part in politics and education was at the highest.

Americans may be disobedient, but it's done a wonderful job of creating pussies as well. Many talk the talk. And still many don't EVEN do that(protests) anymore (too afraid of what others may think). Different times my friend.

I'm all for peaceful and disobedient protest, but when your talking to a brick wall that our government has become(THAT WE'VE ALLOWED IT TO BECOME), and you can't offer those in power what others can(money), - we're screwed and I'm sorry to say, but the SHTF before we see any REAL change. I'm disillusioned to say the least specially with voters that keep electing these A55HOLES.

sharkhearted's picture

I get your point

However....you greatly underestimate the power of the human spirit.

No political division here. Just truth.

Just ignore FOX MSNBC CNN and the BBC,

The truth will win out. It has NO boundaries.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Maybe a truth we don't WANT to accept?

Not the case at all shark. I don't know how you could say that after I pointed out all those facts. I have a VERY HIGH belief in it, but you also have to remember that many veterans coming home are being dociled and controlled by pharmaceuticals. But the point IS when is that spirit going to FINALLY kick in and yell ENOUGH?

BTW I replied to go213 here:

I welcome your thoughts.

sharkhearted's picture

Not the people that I talk to.

From all walks of life...all ages...all backgrounds.

They are PISSED at the government...and seem to know what's up. (After they stop using fluoride).

And I take issue about your assessment of people these days. Men ARE men. I'm a 47 year old man. And damn proud of it.

Everybody...and I mean EVERYBODY I talk to...has some understanding about a global conspiracy to disarm and enslave people.

Their eyes don't glaze over when I talk to them. They brighten. Many even know about the Illu_____ti

Stop being so negative and have some effing confidence in your fellow Americans. You have to be patient and understand that many of them have been brainwashed through the mass media. For example: It took 11 years for the brainwashing about the events of 9/11 for me, to wear off. And all it took was a damn good documentary challenging the "science" and the "physics" of the official story. And of course WTC7.

Your negativity is a bit of distraction...and not part of the solution. Understand that just because people are not where you are yet, doesn't mean they will eventually get there.

I hope you will join my site and lets take it to em. www.911crimes.org


Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

It's too bad you see my comments as negative

where as I see them as realistic. Is it okay to disagree? Is it possible that you're one of the "lucky" ones that's surrounded by open minded individuals and I'm not?

It's too bad you take issue with my assessment, but did you actually prove me wrong on what I said regarding the protests out on the street? No you didn't. Instead you got defensive because I hurt your feelings when I said that men - FOR THE MOST PART - not everyone(that should be obvious) are different today. I'll give you ONE example and you can take it for what it's worth or continue being offended;

Men, and what I mean is people in general(including women), "for the most part" are too AFRAID these days to take action. They're too afraid of the "POSSIBLE" physical consequences, the repercussions, the laws, the possible tear gas, and worst of all what people will think about them. THAT FEAR holds US as a nation BACK.

Shark, would you agree that our elections are rigged? If so, did EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE you know feel the same? Then why not do something about it? Why do I see people in other countries "doing something" other than simply bitching and moaning? Do we really have to take a clue from Mexico no less, or any other country for that matter?


MILLIONS protested in Europe.

I was in Colombia over a year ago. They had mass protests over college costs, which of course didn't get any MSM coverage. Guess what? Costs didn't go up. It worked for them. It may not have worked, but the point is they took to the streets, held their ground, and it paid off.

Remember the Tea Party? Not the actual political party, but the historical event? That was over a TAX policy. Would you agree with me that we're WELL BEYOND being bent over as far as taxes, losses of freedoms, a corrupt justice system, just to name a few? Notice a difference in reactions from citizens? I guess people nowadays are just fine with almost 40% income tax, and not to mention ALL the other sales and taxes one has to pay throughout. About a year ago, someone here made or posted a calculation that in reality, we were already paying about 72% in taxes after all was said and done. Regardless of that figure, how well do you think the Colonists would have taken that 37% taxation, and what do you think they would've done? Honestly.

I don't deny anyone is angry and pissed off. But what did the colonists do? More importantly, WHAT HAVE WE DONE? When is the U.S. going to get fed up enough to actually protest?

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." and "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."-Edmond Burke

Would you agree with those two Different, yet Similar quotes? Think they've gained a foothold yet? With the crashing dollar looming - Who do you REALLY think is winning?

And as far as being patient with my fellow American; I won't take offense at your comment towards me - since you don't know me. But to set you, and the record straight, if you knew me, you'd see you couldn't be more wrong. I know what it takes to wake people up, and I also know that they have to be ready and not rushed. Most of us were there at one point. But it's one thing to have patience with someone and try to wake them up, and it's something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT to point out the problem within our country. This isn't about "negativity and patience". You're confusing those two with my "frustration". Negativity isn't about trying to point out a problem within our country(which I've pointed out), while at the same time showing an alternative(possible solution). So don't try and flip it and mix the two. As a "possible" solution, I've already expressed protests. Regardless of whether that will actually work in this country or not is a moot point, as it hasn't EVEN BEEN TRIED. And please don't mention the occupy movement, as they "got in the kitchen", but "couldn't take the heat" so to speak. Due to the MSM, many looked at them as "crybabies" and sure enough, it died out. Once again - FEAR. I won't deny my frustration at it all though.

Shark, I'm not here to get into a pissing contest with you, and I'm also not here to offend your manhood. But I will call 'em as I see 'em. I've provided you with facts and links - your turn - PROVE ME WRONG. Prove to me - that THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL oBUMacare won't pass through the Supreme Court because our "justice" system isn't corrupt. Prove to me that the UNCONSTITUTIONAL NDAA won't be struck down by a bought and paid for appeals judge. Prove to me that Aaron Swartz and Kim Dotcom weren't part of a witch hunt set out to make an example of by our "justice" dept. and that they'll go after those responsible for Operation Fast & Furious, and those responsible behind denying any help for Benghazi with the same kind of ferociousness and tenacity. Where's the outrage Shark? Where's the protests? Keyboard warriors don't count. As you said so yourself, where's the solution? Well how can there be one when no one ever tries? It seems to me, that FOR THE MOST PART, the only way someone gets "involved" is unless it affects them "personally". Hence the "so effective" online petitions that are so popular these days.

BTW - I sincerely appreciate your efforts in having "justice" served regarding 9/11. As a native New Yorker, very few things would make me happier. But frankly, at the risk of offending you, you're being naive. And I know I probably just offended you, but get over it, and tell me WHEN justice has ever been served regarding Kennedy, Gulf of Tonkin, etc. And I know this is "different", and that you're planning on working "up the totem pole" so to speak. But you'll be dealing with a WORLDWIDE CORRUPT "justice" system (with the possible exception of Sweden or Iceland), that will bleed anyone dry financially over the period of many, many years, and that's if it ever gets that far to begin with.

Think whatever you want of me Shark, but my INTENTION was NEVER to offend. I for one, don't offend easily and I hope you haven't taken any offense at something new I may have said, and whether relevant to you or not, I DO like you and the posts/comments you've made in the past. All I ask, in the interest of this country, is to read the FACTS I've presented and leave emotion out of it. I sincerely wish you well and luck with your site. As always, your thoughts are welcome.

sharkhearted's picture


Your comments are not negative. I actually agree with the content.

What strikes me as slightly negative and destructive (as opposed to constructive)...is your TONE.

Tone means a lot.

And just like I don't know you....you obviously don't know me.

[I HATE blog interface because it is just words and not face to face dialogue.]

In real time...we would probably get along GREAT.

Also, I could care less if you think I am "naive" in relation to my intention to prosecute the government for the crimes of 9/11. Those cards will fall, where they may.

And all I have to say about that is you gotta try your best getting it done....with with the potential of harm or death not necessarily out of the question. I salute Richard Gage and others in the 9'11 Truth Movement for risking their careers (and lives) for getting the truth out.

And you didn't hurt my feelings.

Advice to you: Just be a little more constructive when you criticize people who are trying to do the same thing as you....maybe just taking a different route.

Otherwise....the Hegelian Dialectic will have won (divide and conquer).

Having said that...you have a VERY valid point. And I have been thinking about it all day.

Where I disagree with you is your tone...and that YOU SEEM TO IMPLY that American people today (you should not indict them) are "choosing" to be in a stupor.

But the elephant in the room is that the problem is ENVIRONMENTAL.

Its just after years and years of fluoridation and media brainwashing and killing off all our alpha males in perpetual war....and GMOs destroying testosterone.... and the myriad other ways which "They" are trying to weaken and neutralize our society.

Studies show that the testosterone levels of men (and women) a several generations ago...were much higher.

This might account for the lack of demonstrations to the street these days. But they don't totally...because look at how much "obedience" there was to the State in the 1930s and 40s and 50s.

Since then, Americans are conditioned (brainwashed) to be obedient and complicit.

Or, for example...Americans for ONE HUNDRED YEARS....have tolerated the Federal Reserve.

In 1913, where was the outrage???

Today: Americans STILL, though...are strong. We just have to awaken them out of their brainwashing....and that FLUORIDATION has killed their drive, and killed their testosterone...and that they must FIGHT to get it back!

Its not their fault. Thus....men today...ARE men. Just wake them out of their spell and get them off SOY...and they will make it happen. (And WOMEN too. Especially women. They, actually, will probably lead this charge.)

God bless 'em!. Women making it happen....as usual.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Okay then - help me understand (explained at the bottom)

The problem I am seeing with my fellow "AMERICANS" is OVERWHELMING FEAR/COMPLACENCY and a LACK of UNITY.

(I took the following from one of my replies to another member):

"IMO this is due to people that have been "programmed", taught, educated, brainwashed, etc., into acting a certain way and believing certain things through various means. Those means could be a combination of our education dept(where you're taught not to question authority or anything for that matter), pharmaceuticals(mind and emotion altering/controlling drugs/vaccines/fluoride), and television (where you're also taught what's right and wrong from so called "professionals/pundits/experts", but more importantly WHAT TO THINK).

Most people are also followers, they follow a trend, fashion, whatever, because they lack imagination and/or confidence in themselves. So when you stick a follower and inundate them in the aforementioned "programs" - you help create a subservient society/mentality.

Something I also left out is that times have dramatically changed where BOTH parents are busy working and their children are under different guidance. This leads to tired parents not wanting to deal with the responsibility of discipline and leaving it to the schools and state. Specially since a parent can now face consequences for spanking."


Having said that, I understand not EVERYONE is at fault as they've had a lot of "help" from the government in getting that way. But as I mentioned to another poster, "In today's day and age where information and truth is readily available at one's fingertips, there's really no excuse not to act".

What I've found is that MANY people (obama supporters for example) don't care that their fellow Americans are being sent to die in unjust wars, so long as they get their phone or other handout. That blows my mind. I've spoken to many about drone strikes and loss of liberties. They justify it with, "Well Bush did that too." or they have the attitude of "It doesn't affect me and that's not my problem." And believe me when I tell you that I have a very hard time accepting that fact. Just look at how many millions cheer for him.

"Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them." -Assata Shakur
There is no moral sense when our government and justice system is corrupt.

As for this:

"Advice to you: Just be a little more constructive when you criticize people who are trying to do the same thing as you....maybe just taking a different route."

"Otherwise....the Hegelian Dialectic will have won (divide and conquer)."

I'm not sure if you saw the front page video with the disabled girl, and read some of the comments there. I left this one earlier today:

I understand full well that we're all looking for and want the same thing, and Division is the farthest thing from my mind. You say my tone may be causing this?

I have a tendency to re-read what I type so that it doesn't come off the wrong way, and I'll also be the first to admit that I'm not always successful in that aspect. In that case I welcome your advice on how I could have worded my reply better. So in all sincerity, I ask you to help me out with maybe a couple of phrases I could have changed, maybe a "before & after" example, and I will take what you say into consideration. Thanks in advance Shark.

sharkhearted's picture

LIKE THIS ONE. Case in point.

"Americans may be disobedient, but it's done a wonderful job of creating pussies as well. Many talk the talk. And still many don't EVEN do that anymore. Different times my friend."

Your tone is negative and pessimistic. All throughout. Non-relenting. I could have posted that entire post not just this paragraph and still made my point.

Change your tone...and you have won your argument..

Have some heart. You are dealing with BRAINWASHED individuals here who are having physiological reactions to the flouridatiion of their brains....and other sketchy nefarious reactions.

Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Okay then

since we're talking about tone here and not facts, what you're telling me is that:

a) I should be a little more sensitive?
b) Watch my language?
c) Be more politically correct?
d) All of the above?
e) I'll leave that one to you.

Keeping in mind that when I was typing, I was "replying" to YOU, and I wasn't concerned with any of the above because you've been here a while and already realized you're not asleep. In this case I was talking to a fellow DP'r that knows what's going on, knows what we're up against, and I(wrongly) expected had some of the same frustrations in dealing with some that are still asleep. Believe me when I tell you that I sure as hell envy you when you tell me that EVERYONE you know is awake. So keeping THAT in mind, how would you have written those sentences?

To clarify, I NEVER call someone in person or someone new here who's still asleep but curious, a "SHEEP" or any other name to their face because I know that's not the way to win people over, or at the very least, get them to listen. Same thing goes for comments I make over the internet. I'm in THEIR turf and it's up to me not to shine a bad light or make us look bad. That's the wrong way about it. Were you maybe talking about someone new coming on to this site and being scared away from my reply vs. all the other posts and replies on this site???

If you've ever read any of my other original posts, you would indeed notice a "different" tone. Most are positive, and you could also say they have as you put it "heart".

You tell me to change my tone and I will have "won" my argument. And I agree that with SOME people and in CERTAIN places, this is the ONLY route that will work. However, if you can take emotion out and just use logic and facts, you really shouldn't need to change anything else to "win" the argument, specially when dealing with open minded individuals within THIS site. Another thing you may not realize about me is that it's not so much about "winning" the argument for me. It's about getting that individual to think and question. Or in turn, getting me to realize something I haven't before(I LOVE THAT). It's probably why I like to read the comments so much.

Lastly, in your opinion, my tone is negative and pessimistic, while in someone else's it could be seen as inspirational and maybe lights some fires under some asses. As I said before, I re-read it, and didn't see it as bad as you make it out to be. To each their own as they say, but I would still like to see how you would have written it. Take care.

Justice may never be served.

But don't underestimate exposure.

When people realize how they're being duped, it may make them less reluctant to go along with it the next time.

Look at Sandy Hook and the gun control agenda. Even though we may not know exactly what happened, MANY people caught on quickly that something was not right (much quicker than with 9/11) and didn't get sucked in so easily to the gun control ~solution~ being offered as the remedy for the purported problem of mass shootings.

And from what I could tell, it was keyboard warriors, as you call them, who were largely responsible for calling attention to the nonsense.

I am by no means slighting protesters out on the street, but the reality is that as more people in this day and age spend more time at their computers, cyberspace is a battleground in the information war.

So whether protesters or keyboard warriors or whatever the method, exposing the lies and corruption IS doing something. ;)

sharkhearted's picture

Great comments, Jiminy.


Norfolk, VA

Time to INVESTIGATE the investigators of 9/11. PROSECUTE the prosecutors. EXPOSE the cover-up.

Please don't get me wrong.

They both certainly serve their purpose. I've spent many hours myself "battling" on the keyboard in the simple hopes that debating/commenting on an open forum gets people to THINK and start questioning.
And I'm also sure many people found their way through this site by "word of mouth" through the internet. What I'm saying is don't just think that'll cut it.

It seems like that it that's ALL we're doing and realistically, I don't think it's enough. If I'm wrong - then show me the demonstrations for the injustices I mentioned above. Yeah we all "heard" about it, now we're "informed" and we can complain about it - to each other. I really don't see government responding to "keyboard warriors", do you? Tell me, what does government respond to? Rigged elections? Writing letters to your Congressman?

We should be "keyboard warriors", AND we should be demonstrating. We should be doing MORE. How is it possible that in today's day and age(the information age) more people aren't awake? I'll tell you why. Because people are using their time on the internet for facebook, entertainment/gossip, and porn. And as an American, if frustrates me to no end that other third world countries "get it", and actually get out there and cause change.

This is another way I feel that we could be very effective. By letting our voices be heard through our purchases. I also wrote about it, but as expected, not many got behind it.

For ALL our "efforts", I'm not seeing much change FROM OUR GOVERNMENT. Yes, more people are waking up, THAT"S A CHANGE, but for arguments sake, 30% of the country could wake up and then what? It's way too much easier to get on a keyboard and not get out there. Judging by the evidence and rallies, I'm sure Ron Paul was robbed throughout the primaries. The information was out there on the web, and documented on youtube. As usual, we complained, and as usual, those complaints fell on deaf ears all the way to the election. Whatever it is that we are doing, is not producing any results or change from the government, and if it is, by all means show me because I sure haven't seen it.

I'll put it to you another way; A disgruntled worker in a large company can bitch and moan all day, but unless he DOES something, nothing will change. When UNITED workers are upset because their needs are not being addressed, what is the usual step that actually forces a response from management? What is done that management can no longer ignore? They strike. Same thing as a demonstration. Disruption - same thing as civil disobedience. Workers suffer, but so does the company, and the usual end result is, AT THE VERY LEAST mediation. It has been the only action that has caused change. A government that refuses to listen to its citizens should expect no less. I'll leave it at that.

I was not suggesting we just complain to each other.

There is a lot of valuable information/education put forth in the many debates and controversial discussions here, like with 9/11 and Sandy Hook for example.

The idea isn't just to quibble amongst ourselves or to preach to the choir, though, but rather for that info/education to spread. Activism and resistance will blossom from there.

I understand that you're frustrated and I do not have the magic pill as to that perfect form of activism you're looking for that will fix things. Activism is not one size fits all, nor does it have to be. While activism isn't limited to information sharing, being informed IS the prerequisite.

If people aren't informed, they're not likely to resist dispicable gov't agendas or speak out against them or take other forms of desired action...and those behind the curtain know this.

You are very wrong if you do not think the gov't is responding to the impact of "keyboard warriors".

We need look no further than gov't infiltration of forums and Facebook, or disinfo campaigns or agent provocateurs or the gov't speaking out against "conspiacy theories/theorists" to see that they are responding.

If some progress was not being made on the information war front, it is doubtful that mainstream media and people like Glenn Beck and Anderson Cooper would be wasting so much time and effort to ridicule and marginalize people who question the gov't/media stories and agendas.

So yes, it would seem there very much IS a response from the powers that be to the impact "keyboard warriors" and others are having in this information war.

And I never said that is ALL "keyboard warriors" do

If that were true, then why do I still do it? Did you read my entire reply or look at the post I linked?

But I'll go one further, how do you account for those that are informed, and yet do nothing?

"You are very wrong if you do not think the gov't is responding to the impact of "keyboard warriors"."

You know what I think? And we can disagree about this all day. I don't think they are "responding", for if they were, there would be CHANGE. A "reaction" to the "action" if you will. What I do think the government is, AND HAS been doing for MANY years, is control and observation. Government infiltration of forums, facebook, MSM, phone conversations, and what is taught in our public school system have been going on for a lot longer than you're implying. A "response" would indicate "TRUE" change, not controlled deception. By TRUE change I mean that whatever response the government gives, is actually making the country better, whether that be through the economy or other verifiable means, and not through some illusion the government puts out to put its restless citizens at ease. Here's an example:

See, that wasn't CHANGE, that was a deception. It was a deceptive response - and those don't count because the government isn't really changing and it isn't really getting any better. That's what you're seeing. The government is thinking, "People are talking, let's calm(control) them down and "Oh look, a cruise liner went without power for 5 days".

The ridicule and marginalization of people who question, or even of Ron Paul for example, is "CONTROL". A response would indicate change for the better. I mean, that is what we want, and what we're fighting for, correct? Or am I wrong in that assesment and we are content with things just as they are, and have been for many years now, so long as there is debate about it?

Say a child misbehaves and his parent punishes him. The parent never SEES the child misbehave again. Did the child necessarily learn his lesson and learn to behave. Or could it be possible that the child now knows not to get caught? Apply that to the government, you know, the one that never lies.

So you still see your government responding? So how happy are you with those "changes" so far? I'll give you the ENTIRE American history to give me an example of ACTUAL CHANGE that wasn't in part due to mass demonstrations. Women's rights, civil rights, the Vietnam war,.....

Now is not the time to be complacent about this(as well) and pat ourselves on the back, and think we are winning. Is it at all possible that those in power have a strategy? Is it at all possible that they WANT us to think we're winning and actually changing the system(when the facts point elsewhere), so that we can let our guard down thus making it easier to get distracted? Sure, it's great for morale and all of us could certainly could use it. Is open season on our rights over? I'll ask once again, where's the REAL change?

You said you didn't see gov't responding to keyboard warriors...

...and I said they are responding and gave examples of how. I didn't say they were responding with favorable change, as change is not the word you used in your comment to which I replied.

You told Shark that "keyboard warriors don't count." I contend they do.

I did look at the link you had provided. If you're upset because you didn't get the response you wanted, that doesn't mean that others are doing nothing. They may not be doing what you want them to do, but that doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

I don't know what will elicit positive changes from the gov't. As I said in my other reply, I don't have the magic pill for the perfect form of activism you're looking for.

Again, I understand your frustration, but I'm not sure that being argumentative is going to rally support in your direction.

Hopefully the hearing that Shark is posting about with this thread will force something positive regarding how 9/11 is being treated by the media/gov't.

I asked you to "please not misunderstand" - seems you did

You told Shark that "keyboard warriors don't count." I contend they do.

I think it's pretty fair to say that you just took that out of context. The PROOF is in every reply I've made on this thread starting with the very first one which stated why I think "CISPA" is so important. I said, "Internet regulation/communication is possibly the biggest threat to liberty in this day and age." So now you take ONE sentence that seems to have struck a nerve with you, while disregarding everything else I've said??? Amazing. If I truly felt that way, I'd be a hypocrite and wouldn't have posted THIS in my previous reply to you:
They both certainly serve their purpose. I've spent many hours myself "battling" on the keyboard in the simple hopes that debating/commenting on an open forum gets people to THINK and start questioning.
And I'm also sure many people found their way through this site by "word of mouth" through the internet. What I'm saying is don't just think that'll cut it.

So I guess that didn't count for anything, huh?

Again, I understand your frustration, but I'm not sure that being argumentative is going to rally support in your direction.

On the contrary, I see nothing wrong with that. It seems that's the usual "reaction" when people don't agree with someone else's point of view - that they're being "argumentative". I'd like to think that members of this community are above that. Argument, discussion, debate, they're all the sharing of ideas and opinions. Remember what site you're on and who libertarians are. We like to analyze and question everything. It's a big part of being a critical thinker. It's a real shame that you're not seeing this more as just a difference of opinion shared between parties that may be beneficial instead. As I told shark previously; It's not about "winning" the argument, or even "rallying" support. It's about getting people to THINK and look at things from a different perspective. You'll come to find that sometimes it's good to take a step back and reflect.