32 votes

Today is the day that I have come to Christ.

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Update for those you are criticizing me over my language. I apologize for the error in the use of my language, but know that it is my intent that is important. I will continue pursuing my relationship with God so that I can strengthen my belief in love.
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It has been a day of celebration for me today. Today is the day that I have come to Christ.

I am sharing my story with you to invite you to join in the celebration of my wonderful gift!

I would very much like to share the wonderful news of God revealing himself to me as Jesus Christ! I have been right in my heart with God for a long time, but I have not been a Christian. I have long believed that I died and was reborn a long time ago. However, the message came from God directly and not through the absorbing the teachings of Christ. I didn't understand why God would need to send Christ, thus I never recognized him for Him.

I do believe that when it is said cometh through me, it means that the actual values I am describing did not exist prior to the occurrence of Christ. This was my misconception, because this value was naturally in my heart, and was not taught and was merely self evident, I assumed that prior to Jesus Christ this was the case.

I had heard the words of men “God through Christ” many times and denied them; this is because it is not the case! I am a skeptic of men! I trust no man! God has said to trust only him. And I have written the following and included statements made by Jesus as evidence. This is my testimony.

The problem was that I had not ever sought teachings of Christ words directly. They are nothing more than the truths that I already proclaim in my heart to be self-evident, that I would argue is the core of our libertarian philosophy----Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! Love thy neighbor as thyself.

But we know so little of love that it was necessary for Jesus Christ to come and teach its meaning. I came to Christ through God, from internal reflection –dialogue with God- but I did not come to God through Christ. I was always with God, but the values of which I speak did not exist prior to Christ.

I've spent most of the day today reading the words of Jesus Christ, and sharing my testimony with those who are closest to me. It is cause for great celebration for I recognize him for Him!

John 6:44-45 - So Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. Nobody comes to me unless he is drawn to me by the Father who sent me, and I will raise him up when the last day comes. In the prophets it is written -'And they shall all be taught by God,' and this means that everybody who has heard the Father's voice and learned from him will come to me.

I see now that this message I received from God-- the teachings of Christ, had not been given to world until Christ. I understand that Christ was necessary to deliver the message of the true meaning of God's Law, which is unconditional love. Through this it has been revealed to me and I believe that Christ is the Lord.

We are the judge of no men! We have no jurisdiction over any man, and those who claim they do are evil. I cannot punish a man for anything- when I have no jurisdiction over him to begin with! This applies to murderers even, we must not be angry with them lest we be committing ourselves to stand his trial! We have been told to forgive all men, without condition. It does not matter the crime.

Matthew 6:14-15 - "For if you forgive other people their failures, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you will not forgive other people, neither will your Heavenly Father forgive you your failures."

Matthew 5:21-22 - "You have heard that it was said to the people in the old days, 'You shall not murder', and anyone who does must stand his trial. But I say to you that anyone who is angry with his brother must stand his trial; anyone who contemptuously calls his brother a fool must face the supreme court; and anyone who looks on his brother as a lost soul is himself heading straight for the fire of destruction.

He taught us that the interpretation of Gods law is not found in the language but it is in the intent, he said it in a way that we could all understand it. He was explaining the law to them! But men are wicked and they do not see their greed and their false belief in jurisdiction keeps them blind for they do not know love.

We pray for the receipt of their grace—their gift! And we must be angry with no one! For we have no authority because we have no jurisdiction!

I did not see the source of this knowledge in the teachings of many who had claimed to come in the name of Jesus. But I see that is because many of these teachers were false teachers claiming to be Christians when they do not know the meaning. Do not know the message. They do not know Christ.

Matthew 7:22-23 - "In 'that day' many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we preach in your name, didn't we cast out devils in your name, and do many great things in your name?' Then I shall tell them plainly, 'I have never known you. Go away from me, you have worked on the side of evil!'"

It truly is the belief in unconditional love, and it is the moral baseline for all of the teaching of Christ.

The misconception that I personally attribute not coming to this conclusion is having heard a man say "you must go through Christ to get to God" but I knew this in my heart not to be and that is what I was challenging. I believe this is the meaning of what Jesus said was "through God you will come to Christ"

The distinction is significant because the meaning is that God is actively pursuing a relationship with man through the figure of Jesus Christ but if we don't recognize him as Him, then we are blind. And only the spirit can reveal that.

God has shown me and I have learned. Is that not how we know anything? We see and then we learn? Be careful of that which man hath shown you, because you may learn something that is not love. It is in our nature as man. Trust only in God and you will recognize that which is not love. This is the law.

The is affirmed most succinctly by Jesus in Luke 10:25-28. As Hillel wrote, all the rest is just commentary.

Luke 10:25 - Then one of the experts in the Law stood up to test him and said, "Master, what must I do to be sure of eternal life?"
Luke 10:26 - "What does the Law say and what has your reading taught you?" said Jesus.
Luke 10:27 - "The Law says, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind', and 'your neighbour as yourself'," he replied.
Luke 10:28 - "Quite right," said Jesus. "Do that and you will live."

I would like to add that the commentary is of importance because we know so little of the meaning of love. We must view the world from Gods point of view. Supporting words from Jesus:

Mark 10:5-9 - "Moses gave you that commandment," returned Jesus, "because you know so little of the meaning of love…..”

Mark 8:31-33 – “…. "Out of my way, Satan!" he said. "Peter, you are not looking at things from God's point of view, but from man's!"

I want to add is that this is not about religion or dogma. If it is not love then is breaking Gods commandment as Jesus warns about the dangers of tradition! The warning against dogma was clearly expressed, and it is analogous to those who take an oath and then blindly follow it and commit acts of violence in the name of their oath. Furthermore, he also warned against oaths. I present the following two verses as evidence.

Matthew 5:33-37 - "Again, you have heard that the people in the old days were told - 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord', but I say to you, don't use an oath at all. Don't swear by Heaven for it is God's throne, nor by the earth for it is his footstool, nor by Jerusalem for it is the city of the great king. No, and don't swear by your own head, for you cannot make a single hair - white or black! Whatever you have to say let your 'yes' be a plain 'yes' and your 'no' a plain 'no' - anything more than this has a taint of evil.

Matthew 15:3-9 - "Tell me," replied Jesus, "why do you break God's commandment through your tradition? For God said, 'Honour your father and your mother', and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death' . But you say that if a man tells his parents, 'Whatever use I might have been to you is now given to God', then he owes no further duty to his parents. And so your tradition empties the commandment of God of all its meaning. You hypocrites! Isaiah describes you beautifully when he said: 'These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men'."

Further, I would like to leave with the following message about false religious teachers. The fruit in reference is to their students. Do their students love unconditionally? Do they claim to speak of their love unconditional yet cast accusations or pass judgment about the deeds of others? They have been taught falsely of their jurisdiction.

Matthew 7:15-20 - "Be on your guard against false religious teachers, who come to you dressed up as sheep but are really greedy wolves. You can tell them by their fruit. Do you pick a bunch of grapes from a thorn-bush or figs from a clump of thistles? Every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is incapable of producing bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. The tree that fails to produce good fruit is cut down and burnt. So you may know men by their fruit."

My brothers and sisters, believe this, you need not worry! for those who claim jurisdiction over the earth are in contempt of its court, and if they do not recognize their contempt a judgment will surely be placed against them.

Written on 16th and 17th days of February 2013.




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When replying to a generalization

one does tend to generalize.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Who exactly is "one"? Is that

Who exactly is "one"? Is that you?

It is

me, it is him, it is one. It is one who does what one does that you have asked me "who exactly is 'one'?" wherein I have answered with the words it is me, it is him, it is one. What did you think one meant?

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Cyril's picture

Man, forgive my indiscretion. But...

Man, forgive my indiscretion. But...

I friendly recommend you don't exhaust yourself trying to counter every single hit that some make at you, by splitting hair at every corner of your replies. Especially on that topic - I mean, that can be endless.

Sincerely, I don't think it's worth it. Just thought I should share.

You're warned, use your best judgment. I admire your genuine effort to defend the spirit, though.

Mark 4:3-9, you know.

Take care.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

I'll grant you that

they are indeed vain words, lol. I had to reply to that question just for fun though... =D

Also, I work 3rd shift on call and that can be boring sometimes and DP is a great place to hang out.

Thank you for the verses and I understand what you mean.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

History

100% backs the existence of Jesus Christ and the Bible. More and more the things mentioned in the Bible are being discovered. The Bible even mentions many things that science has just discovered in the last thousand or so years about cleanliness and in the last couple centuries about how 'life is in the blood.' Which if President Washington's doctors would have understood he may have lived.

In the field of archeology alone, there have been a huge amount of discoveries that prove the Bible right. Pontus Pilate, sodom and gomorrah, the ark and many more all have been discovered to be Biblically accurate.

If you are refusing to believe that Christ even existed then you are just willingly ignorant.

2 Timothy 4:3&4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Are you ..

Are you Arther Fonzarelli? If not, you sure remind me of him. Do you remember when the chastity of his girlfriend was questioned and the Fonz said something to the effect: " Ya I know she's a virgin, because she told me so and virgins don't lie."

The Romans didn't even hang people on crosses. The Romans were a brilliant but ruthless lot and nailed people on "T" shaped structures that were so designed that the horizontal portion had a center hole and could be impaled by the permanent vertical member. The Christians adopted the cross imagery, once again, by "borrowing" it from older cultures' religions such as astrology.

Please provide some evidence other than the bible to support your contention that everything in the bible is 100% true or even a scintilla of evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed.

Thanks

Google Ftw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

and...am I not Arther Fonzarelli? O.o

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Is this Senator Michael Bennett from...

the state of Colorado. :)

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

If so

all I have to say is that the guy needs a history lesson.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I agree...

:)

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

I had an eye awaking experience at church today...

I felt lead to go to the church today and feel the message couldn't have been any more pointed at me. And in addition I did not realize I was the last in line to recieve the body of Christ. Suddenly I was there and the visiting Deacon bowl was empty. He smile and said to stay and he would return. Less than a minute pass but it seem like forever and I could hear whispering in the background. I was the center of attention and I did not want to be. The only time I like to be center of attention is when speaking of politics. lol

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

in moments

like that I wonder if God is trying to tell me something. I usually think if God is calling me to repent of something or teach me patience ;) lol

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I'm agnostic

but congrats to you if this makes your life better and happier in anyway.

Thank you for your kind words

to him and not berating him like several others on this thread.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

yeah

I don't understand that kind of behavior. Doesn't do anyone any good. If they have a difference of opinion, I am not sure why it cannot be expressed in a polite respectful manner. We are all supposed to be on the same team.

The poster is clearly happy about this experience, we should be happy that a fellow patriot has found a way to be happy.

Sorry for others....

Yea I am definitely glad

he has found this joy and I try to be as respectful to others views as possible too especially here at the daily paul. We all have too much in common to be divided over religion or anything else. We need to stand united for our country.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

congrats

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-Chapter-13/

Bingo.- Love ya!

Bingo.- Love ya!

Cyril's picture

My warmest congratulations

My warmest congratulations for your choice to join the Wise Builders.

Matthew 7:24-27.

;)

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Thank You!

Thank You!

All I can say is to the non

All I can say is to the non believers posting on here actually trying to convince believers not to believe you better hope for your own sake you are right... If you are wrong I am sure God has a special place in hell for you.

What do you care if others believe? Why do you spend so much time and energy trying to convince others no to believe? Really if everyone followed the ten commandments would it be such a bad thing?

I'' piss

I'll piss in the face of any "god" who "loves me" but would send me to hell for failing to believe his ridiculous childish BS. What kind of a kook would believe in such a god, let alone worship it?

God does not love all men

The God of the Bible does not love those whom He will send to hell. "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." -Ps. 5:5.

The idea that God loves all men is Pelagian in origin, and foreign to the Bible. It was popularized heavily by Arminius and others, particularly after the Reformation. But just because a large number of people hold to it does not mean it is what the Bible teaches.

The point is this: there is a God who made the universe and we are all accountable to Him. He has told us how we are to live and we will all stand before Him in judgment. God created men good, but mutable (changeable). Man fell from this state and became corrupt. God sent Jesus to redeem some people out of every tribe, kindred, tongue, and nation to show his mercy. He leaves others in their state of corruption to show His power and wrath.

Does God love Hitler? Stalin? Mussolini? Mao? We have no evidence that He saved them from their wickedness. And I agree with you entirely--to claim that God would be upset in Heaven for all eternity because He loves such horrible people but just had to send them to hell is totally inconsistent with a God worthy of respect or reverence.

God is not willing

that ANY should perish. He gives us all the same choices between good and evil. The Bible says that nothing can separate you from God's love. That also means that anyone, even a hitler, can repent and come to God (though I'm sure they wont). Do you really think God is so limited with His love that He could not love anyone when He sent His own Son to die for all? Think about it...

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

You know somebody...

...who was his own kind of Hitler, persecuting and killing Jewish Christians, committing atrocities, etc.? Saul of Tarsus -- and yet God in His Love reached out for him on the road to Damascus, and he became the Apostle Paul, who would reflect this Love in all of his epistles and describe it beautifully in I Cor 13: Love never fails, always hopes, etc.

'For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies, says the Lord GOD' (Ezek. 19:32; also Ezek 33:11).

He is 'not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.' (2 Peter 3:9)

'Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.' (Romans 5:18)

You can't dissect God and say, look over here is His justice being carried out on some people, and look over there is His love being shown to others -- His justice is loving and His love is just; they are one.

And all things, whether on heaven or earth will be reconciled to Him. (Colossian 1:20) :) The 'vessels of wrath' thing is only in the short-term, for the purposes of history being played out.

Here's something to check out...Ezekiel 16:55-61, where even Sodom is restored at the time Jerusalem is restored. But wait...all of Sodom was destroyed. Where are these exiles coming from that are being restored? They're all dead. This might be pointing to the picture in Revelation 22, where the tree of life is for the 'healing of the nations', in the New Jerusalem?? I don't know where else it could be, with Sodom having been totally destroyed.

Revelation 22:1,2

"Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

It seems that God doesn't punish and send into exile, just for the sake of punishing (He has no pleasure in it), but with ultimate redemption and reconciliation (through true repentance) in mind.

Here's another way to underscore that God does indeed love everyone:

- Christ commanded us to love even our enemies
- God commands us to be perfect/holy as He is perfect/holy
- If by obeying Christ's command to love my enemies (i.e. all people) I am becoming more godly in character, drawing closer to His holiness and perfection, that means that God's own perfect Love includes loving His enemies (all people)
- If it was more Godly to only love some people, then would not Christ have told us to hate some people and love some people, to be more like God?
- Do you love only some of your children, or all? Would you be more holy if you loved only some?

You can try to explain it

You can try to explain it away but the Bible is clear.

God is not sadistic in taking pleasure upon the punishment of those whom He does not save. But because He is just, he does exact punishment.

All Scripture must be read in context. The verse in 2 Peter you listed was written to *believers* -- those who had already obtained "like precious faith." The letter was written to encourage them who had been scattered abroad by persecution. Peter was encouraging them to remain steadfast under affliction, for God indeed is not willing that any of those for whom He died perish.

Here are plain Bible teachings that God does not love all men, and indeed treats people differently. Now we are all worthy of punishment in hell for there is none good, no not one. But God, in his mercy, makes distinctions among men and does not give some what they deserve. He is right to do so for He is God. Have you never read Romans 9?

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy"

Here are several verses that plainly teach God does not love all men:

***Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

***Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

***Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

***Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

***Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Further, in the New Testament we see that Jesus did not die for all men, but for the "sheep." He is not a failure, He is a successful Savior and saved all those that He intended to save. He prayed for those whom He saved, and made a distinction between them and the world (John 17). Read John 6, John 10, John 17...

It is impossible to...

...strip God of having Love towards anyone, because God is Love by His very nature, and therefore EVERY action He takes whether through mercy or punishment is loving. It is impossible for God to do anything evil, and it is impossible for Him to do anything unloving, because He is Love.

So I agree that all these verses about 'vessels of wrath', 'hating' Esau, etc. reflect short-term acts of judgment, exile, punishment, etc. -- but all of this is done in the context of His Love, which is never separate from Him in any action.

You could also try to say that Christ was literally telling us to hate our fathers and mothers in contradiction to His other affirmations of the command to honor our fathers and mothers. Surface readings of the word 'hate' are not intended here -- it's a jarring way to say that we need to not prioritize any human relationship above ours with God.

But I agree with you: God can and will accomplish all that He sets out to do. He will not fail, and since it is plain from Romans 5 that the gift of justification was intended for the same all men that are perishing under Adam, and that therefore the scope of His will for people to be reconciled is universal (confirmed in Colossians 1 as encompassing all of the cosmos), I believe that all things truly WILL be reconciled as it says they will.

I don't understand why the Calvinist holds that God would be unable to demonstrate His glory by eventually redeeming everyone as they come to true repentance (the only way to pay the uttermost farthing in the outer darkness). If God showing grace to a Saul of Tarsus or a thief on the cross is a demonstration of His glory, how would His glory be diminished if He chose to demonstrate His glory through his consuming fire of wrath ultimately leading to the same end for all?

How do you know who God loves and doesn't love?

Did God write that psalm or an individual who had his own hates and loves then decided God 'must feel the same way'?
God IS Love, and if you don't know that by now, I feel sorry for you.
Please don't bring God down to your petty, human emotions.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

I don't claim to know who God

I don't claim to know who God loves or doesn't--but the Bible does tell us how to know other believers: "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." -John 13:35.

All we can say is that someone exhibits the fruit of the spirit and lives a life of godliness, then we believe God has worked in that person's heart. I see none of these indications in the historical figures I listed earlier.

I also listed numerous verses of Scripture that teach that God hates some people--and He is right to do so.
Just a few of them:
Psalm 5:5
Psalm 11:5
Lev. 20:23
Prov. 6:19
Hosea 9:15

He should hate ALL of us because of our wickedness, but he is also merciful and freely chooses to put some of us into Christ and view us as holy. Because He cleanses a sinner in this way He love them--they are now pure in His sight. God does not love that which is unholy and abhorrent to Him.

Did God love all the nations that He had the Israelites totally wipe out, including women and children? What about all those He destroyed in the flood? Or all those he destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah? Or the Egyptians upon whom He poured all those plagues? I can only say I'm thankful God doesn't "love" me in the way that He "loved" all those people! To claim that God would love those He sends to hell, and would be eternally upset over their misery and ruin is totally contrary to the God of the Bible--He who does ALL His pleasure, and no one can stay His hand or say unto Him, what doest thou? (See book of Daniel). This Arminian, Pelegian heresy gives atheists and others the right to mock God. The user "mbennett" is a clear example of this. The false, weak, impotent god of the popular "Christian" tradition of the last 200 years is NOT the God of the Bible.

And yet indeed God is love. In fact He is far more loving than the Arminian would believe. But one cannot understand this until one understands how wicked we all are apart from Him working in us to change our hearts. (See Ez. 36:26, for starters.)