14 votes

Rand Paul and Ted Cruz could be heroes, they choose not to be


I wanted to provide some clarification about what I meant by what I originally posted. I genuinely appreciate everyone's comments.

I don't believe Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are bad people, I believe that they are doing what they think must be done to effect the best change. It is my opinion that there are influences upon these Senators, the two who might be some of our best current hopes, to do what is "politically necessary" to gain power, which will, in turn, once they have the power they seek, allow them to make the right change.

I would like to know, though, at what point do the political maneuvers end, or do they ever end? When will the excuses for political maneuvering ("strategy") stop; when will this deception be replaced with expressions of true belief?

I suppose that I am of the opinion that as long as there are politicians who want to pander, there will be bad results. I don't excuse from this judgment those who I like most.

All I wish to do is ask that Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, my two favorite Senators, the two who give me most hope, I want to ask that they stand up against those who want to violate me. If we are to have representatives, then what else should they focus on?

If they think there is a better path than exclaiming what is right, then I hope that I am wrong. I hope that their method, using politics to fight politics, is right; I hope that it helps get us somewhere closer to freedom. It is just that I, someone who doesn't see the wisdom in using deception to fight deception--I think that political maneuvers are the wrong strategy.

I wish Rand Paul and Ted Cruz the best as far as their individual actions help the causes of liberty (non-violence) and I wish them the worst as far as their individual actions defeat liberty (violence). I don't know where the line is, I can only make my own judgments.

Original post:

​People like Justin Amash and Thomas Massie are who I think we ought to be putting most effort behind, they understand what it means to stand up for what is right, no matter the opposition. I know others may feel differently, but I want someone who will exclaim what is right at every opportunity.

Ted Cruz and Rand Paul could join together and stand for what is right, they could start espousing the true characteristics of freedom at every turn, and they would be heroes for it. By doing this, by standing up for what is right, they could literally save lives. The world doesn't need another politician, it needs a paradigm shift. Minds must change.

Rand Paul is thinking of being President. Do you have any idea what kind of effect that could have on a person, the thought of being one of the most powerful and famous figures in world history? It will cause a person to refocus their goals, from a concentration on what is right to an obsession with winning.

If a few noble Senators get together and start unexpectedly speaking out for freedom people will listen. I know that Rand Paul understands the principles of liberty, his attention is just diverted, and Ted Cruz is a student of Mises. Ted Cruz is a smart man, I know that he didn't misunderstand Human Action. I say we load on the pressure to these men. I think that we should be insistent that they do and say and vote for what they know is right. Of course we can never agree on everything, but there are some very basics upon which any knowledgeable person can agree.

Violent offensive wars are wrong, and that includes sanctions which are no different than telling me I can't make a voluntary and mutually beneficial deal with my nextdoor neighbor. How can people come to understand the truth if they never hear it, if they are always being manipulated by the political game?

I'm asking Rand Paul and Ted Cruz to stand up for me, to do thier jobs. It is wrong to give my money, my productivity, my labor, to people in Egypt for the same reasons it is wrong to give a piece of my effort to Israel; the thing which makes it wrong is that you must first take from me, even if it is against my will. No one will understand if we don't start clearly describing the very basic principles of peaceful and prosperous coexistence.

This should start with the people who claim to represent us. No excuses for supporting theft in the name of escalating war are acceptable, there is no good reason to support war, or theft, or occupation, or sanctions. It doesn't only violate foreigners, it violates me, and it violates the very basic principles of freedom.

If the young Paul and Cruz don't start saying the right things then their cries for "freedom" are shallow and in vain.

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I've never trusted Cruz, and

I've never trusted Cruz, and I never will.

I always felt like he was chosen by someone else to be the "tea party" candidate.

Completely agree.

One of Satan's favourite maxims is: "the end justifies the means". The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If Satan can corrupt you now when you are starting out, why on earth would anyone believe it will be different later when you have so much more to lose?

Obedience to God is resistance to tyrants.


I found a link to The Law by Bastiat here on the DP...and I am reading it...and I thought of you. I am under the heading "Results of Legal Plunder" and it says "It is impossible to introduce into society a greater change and a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder."

That sounds like that Legal Criminal stuff we talk about. Have you every heard of The Law by Bastiat? http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G003

The Voting Numbers

We in the movement must look at the same numbers they are looking at.

Then we can see how effectively we are moving the voting public and opinion polls our direction.

We are the activists... and as such, we should be watching these grand numbers as well as any politician.

I think RAND sees that big Pro-War leaning Born-Again block, the very one that ran out and voted for Christian Right Rev Pat Robertson and more recently, Rick Santorum.

We activists need to start TALKING and MEME these Evangelists on their "social conservative" positions. They can keep their social conservative position, but the best MEANS towards that end is liberty, not govt. Moreover, we need to show them that the means they use, govt, to get their social conservative ends, backfires each and every time. We must take our passion for freedom to convince them to join us, rather than the other way around.

Then, once that liberty meme is complete, politicians such as Rand and Ted Cruz and many others will just follow suit.


Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

If you want to really 'wake up'

the foolish deceived evangelicals, you have to expose to them the Zionism hoax they have been taught, is against the Teachings of Christ. Unless, we are able to accomplish this very difficult task they will lay down to the Zionist Jewish plan of Totalitarian Fascist rule. They are made to believe in the pre-tribulation 'rapture' and are taught what Pastor Chuck Baldwin has written about a false teaching on Romans 13. A good start at waking them up is to have them watch this video by a former Christian Zionist, Charles Carlson of 'We Hold These Truths' and Strait Gate Ministries. Being a former Christian Zionist myself, I know this can be a difficult task, because it's hard to admit you were allowed to be deceived, and the Ministry you followed are Apostates preaching Blasphemy against the Lord. One thing that's very important he fails to mention is, that Samuel Untermeyer was also the person who wrote the laws for the Fed. http://vimeo.com/29901084

I absolutely agree with you.

I absolutely agree with you. Well put.

I hope others will vote you up on this,

Being a 'reasoning' Christian, some of my best points for reaching my brothers and sisters can be found in Ron Paul's own words. (Especially in the Foreign Policy chapter of The Revolution, A Manifesto)

Downsize DC makes some good points about principles, and why they should apply to both Nations and People, especially since many Christians are for smaller, less intrusive government. (at least when it comes to parental rights, religious free speech and not using tax money to support immoral lifestyles)



"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15


Sometimes I feel we're expecting too much.

I understand that the Constitution should be protecting us from a lot of the things that are happening today, however it's taken 100 years of statist progressivism to get to this point.

It may take 100 years of liberty progressivism to fix it. The problem is getting the people to stop begging for statism and getting them to start begging for liberty.

Dr. Paul did well to identify the causes for which people are begging for liberty in his 2012 campaign book "Liberty Defined".

Progressives are able to win against liberty by making the people beg for statism. This is because they propose policies and programs that offer solutions to problems, and those solutions are overseen by the government. It's almost to the point where Americans, a people once described as having the motto "Don't Tread on Me", are ready to fully embrace full on Statist, Fascist, Utopian society.

If Liberty is to take back the soul of America we must, using each person's liberty issue, show people that government solutions inherently sacrifice liberty for somebody and absolve us of personal responsibility. People need to realize that their choice is between living as a serf, or living as a free man and that the gray area in between is only temporary as there will always be constant movement towards one of those states of being. What they need to see is that the Constitution was set up as a measure to prevent America sliding to the point of no return, in which the will of the people can no longer prevent the onset of tyranny.

Just a little clarification :-)

"I understand that the Constitution should be protecting us from a lot of the things that are happening today"

Concerning Bill of Rights, it is us as individuals who must stand and defend our natural-born, God-given rights. The Bill of Rights is merely an outline of what can not be 'taken' away, unless voluntarily surrendered.

When 'The People' have finally had enough, it will be known.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Bump for my edit of the OP

Bump for my edit of the OP above. Just like everyone else here, I'm just expressing my feelings, sharing them with others in the hope that it will have some influence to effect things in a way which I believe will be most helpful.

I know many disagree with me. Because I know that most all of you want the same as me in the end, then, if what you believe to be the best means to our shared end goals, if your way works, then I will be grateful to you.

Just keep in mind that I'm just expressing my opinion, too.

You who are criticizing

You who are criticizing everybody for everything should take a step back and think about what you're doing. Rand Paul appeals to tons of people who would not otherwise be backing a liberty candidate because he is tactful and careful about how he projects these views to the public.

It is easy to sit at home on a computer and criticize. Why don't you become a U.S. Senator? I've found that the people who criticize everybody for everything they do are typically the people who don't do anything themselves.

Stop being a blue-collar scholar and start working for change in your community and state. At the end of the day the number of obscure books you read on libertarian philosophy or economics don't mean squat unless you've taken that knowledge to fight the fight in the real world. Our organization here in Mississippi has gone from zero to 10,000 facebook likes in three months. We are causing all sorts of trouble at the capitol. We are rallying people to the cause of liberty in a state where Ron Paul got 4% of the vote.

The Liberty Movement has too many people constantly tearing each other apart. Reach out to the Tea Party in your area. Yes many of them are ignorant but many of them are waking up. If you don't like what Rand Paul is doing then do something yourself. It's not his job to do exactly what you want him to do. Maybe he has a reason for doing what he's doing. My grandfather loves Rand Paul and he's certainly no fan of Ron.

In a movement that claims to believe in personal liberty and personal responsibility there is certainly a lot of complaining that other people aren't doing enough. When you're pointing the finger at somebody else you've got three other fingers pointing back at you.

You are not powerless. Stop acting like you are. You can easily be a future state leader. Get involved with Campaign for Liberty in your state or start your own liberty organization like we did. Attend a FACL training. There are proven methods that will allow us to win. This isn't rocket science. You just have to get off your butt. We need fewer people in the stands and more people on the field.

I am done with both Rand and

I am done with both Rand and Ted Cruz till they abandon their kiss ass approach to Israel.

Right, because hating Israel

Right, because hating Israel is essential to supporting a non interventionist foreign policy.

Refusing to kiss the ring is

Refusing to kiss the ring is not hatred.

Would not

rational argument be enough? Should feelings guide the foreign policy?

You overlook only one thing - under free society with no big taxes, and no foreign aid to all, Jews and Israel will do even better than today. Many Jews will do well under capitalism based on their sheer personal abilities. Their vast personal wealth will go to Israel rather than to local churches. So I suggest you join national socialists or religious socialists if you want to curb Israel.

Oh please. They can do as

Oh please. They can do as they please. Christian Zionists actually bother me more. You shouldn't assume things about me.

Rand Paul supports ending

Rand Paul supports ending foreign aid to Israel and all other countries, as do I. So what exactly is this "kiss ass" nonsense that the other poster was referring to?


"...not in his lifetime"

in political speak that means never.

Saying that we will defend

Saying that we will defend Israel is kiss ass. Saying Israel has a right to do as it pleases, while ignoring the fact that we have enabled Israel's violations of the Geneva convention.

WE is always used to infer that the people of one area

support the dictates put down by the current Rothschile bank mafia stooge puppet. I do agree a thousand per cent to not support the land grabbing Rothschild private state of IzUnReal.

The same land grab that occured in usa to the American Indian is occuring in the middle east to the palastinians.


Israel should have the right

Israel should have the right to do as they please. That's part of non interventionism. Those who support interferring in Israel's internal affairs aren't non interventionists.

Yes, but not with a penny of

Yes, but not with a penny of my money. And Israel must also be free to face the consequences of its apartheid policies. And why would you support a nation involved in 9/11? Given the long history of subsidizing Israel's occupation and Jewish only colonization, the US has an obligation to NOT support Israel.

Not with my money


Not in any real sense does he

Not in any real sense does he support ending aid to Israel. He has called for gradually reducing aid over time. That is not ending aid. We need someone with the balls to call Israel out for its crimes against Palestine and the US. Some of you refuse to even try to explain away the overwhelming evidence for Mossad involvement in 9/11.

He called for weening them

He called for weening them off.

That kind of statement is why

That kind of statement is why you'll never be taken seriously by anyone. Rand has the correct position, which is that Israel is a good friend to the United States, but should become more self reliant and independent over time, and it's none of our business where Israel builds settlements.

good buds

when it comes to illegal wars, and clandestine operations.

by anyone? I think Rand is

by anyone? I think Rand is the one who won't be taken seriously by many in the Liberty movement. It is our business, because we have been subsidizing Israel's settlement enterprise since 1967. Again, I notice you guys don't even try to explain away all of the evidence for Mossad involvment in 9/11.

I understand that you are obsessed with Israel more than Liberty

Your anxiety is unfounded though: "It is wrong to give my money, my productivity, my labor, to people in Egypt for the same reasons it is wrong to give a piece of my effort to Israel;"

I suggest to calm down with the following contemplation - Your particular taxes (I am not sure how much you make, but usually unemployed whine the most) go for bribes to Pakistani officials and for defense of Japan, South Korea and Turkey. Taxes paid by American Jews go to Israel and defense of UK, Germany and Italy.

Rand Paul will not win the presidency.

That should be clear as day to anyone who's been around here for any stretch of time.

It's the same reason Mittens couldn't beat Obama despite how weak his disastrous policies left him.

Grassroots freedom-lovers will not support a neocon; nor will they support a libertarian co-opted by neocon influence... even if it's only a 5% corruption. They'll sooner stay home and vote for no one at all (sound familiar?).

The founders knew power corrupts the morals. But perhaps even more importantly they recognized power corrupts the judgment as well. This we saw oh so clearly in RP's 2012 campaign.

I'm afraid Rand's judgment has been deeply corrupted. It's allowed him to compromise on issues where most of us cannot follow. What a shame... and a waste.

Now I believe it's better to work locally, while sitting back and watching the federal apparatus self-destruct under its own weight and stupidity.

Ron Paul's greatest political asset was earned by his near-unwavering commitment to ideals... over decades. How else could you inspire an entire movement that sacrificed so much to help him?

Unfortunately lesser minds couldn't wait to spend this political capital in ways that were a complete affront to his own ideals... to our ideals.

That doomed his chances... and will destroy Rand's too.