14 votes

Rand Paul and Ted Cruz could be heroes, they choose not to be

UPDATE:

I wanted to provide some clarification about what I meant by what I originally posted. I genuinely appreciate everyone's comments.

I don't believe Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are bad people, I believe that they are doing what they think must be done to effect the best change. It is my opinion that there are influences upon these Senators, the two who might be some of our best current hopes, to do what is "politically necessary" to gain power, which will, in turn, once they have the power they seek, allow them to make the right change.

I would like to know, though, at what point do the political maneuvers end, or do they ever end? When will the excuses for political maneuvering ("strategy") stop; when will this deception be replaced with expressions of true belief?

I suppose that I am of the opinion that as long as there are politicians who want to pander, there will be bad results. I don't excuse from this judgment those who I like most.

All I wish to do is ask that Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, my two favorite Senators, the two who give me most hope, I want to ask that they stand up against those who want to violate me. If we are to have representatives, then what else should they focus on?

If they think there is a better path than exclaiming what is right, then I hope that I am wrong. I hope that their method, using politics to fight politics, is right; I hope that it helps get us somewhere closer to freedom. It is just that I, someone who doesn't see the wisdom in using deception to fight deception--I think that political maneuvers are the wrong strategy.

I wish Rand Paul and Ted Cruz the best as far as their individual actions help the causes of liberty (non-violence) and I wish them the worst as far as their individual actions defeat liberty (violence). I don't know where the line is, I can only make my own judgments.

Original post:

​People like Justin Amash and Thomas Massie are who I think we ought to be putting most effort behind, they understand what it means to stand up for what is right, no matter the opposition. I know others may feel differently, but I want someone who will exclaim what is right at every opportunity.

Ted Cruz and Rand Paul could join together and stand for what is right, they could start espousing the true characteristics of freedom at every turn, and they would be heroes for it. By doing this, by standing up for what is right, they could literally save lives. The world doesn't need another politician, it needs a paradigm shift. Minds must change.

Rand Paul is thinking of being President. Do you have any idea what kind of effect that could have on a person, the thought of being one of the most powerful and famous figures in world history? It will cause a person to refocus their goals, from a concentration on what is right to an obsession with winning.

If a few noble Senators get together and start unexpectedly speaking out for freedom people will listen. I know that Rand Paul understands the principles of liberty, his attention is just diverted, and Ted Cruz is a student of Mises. Ted Cruz is a smart man, I know that he didn't misunderstand Human Action. I say we load on the pressure to these men. I think that we should be insistent that they do and say and vote for what they know is right. Of course we can never agree on everything, but there are some very basics upon which any knowledgeable person can agree.

Violent offensive wars are wrong, and that includes sanctions which are no different than telling me I can't make a voluntary and mutually beneficial deal with my nextdoor neighbor. How can people come to understand the truth if they never hear it, if they are always being manipulated by the political game?

I'm asking Rand Paul and Ted Cruz to stand up for me, to do thier jobs. It is wrong to give my money, my productivity, my labor, to people in Egypt for the same reasons it is wrong to give a piece of my effort to Israel; the thing which makes it wrong is that you must first take from me, even if it is against my will. No one will understand if we don't start clearly describing the very basic principles of peaceful and prosperous coexistence.

This should start with the people who claim to represent us. No excuses for supporting theft in the name of escalating war are acceptable, there is no good reason to support war, or theft, or occupation, or sanctions. It doesn't only violate foreigners, it violates me, and it violates the very basic principles of freedom.

If the young Paul and Cruz don't start saying the right things then their cries for "freedom" are shallow and in vain.

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When you box youself into that kind of choice

You eliminate many other possibilities.

If we have not learned the lesson of choosing the lesser of evils we have to endure more of the same.

I will lead myself and when special messengers like Ron Paul come along singing my tune ill sing along.

I wont get on the not as evil or bad bandwagon. Amen corner is no place for a sovereign.

sovereign

to look past saction votes or not to

that is the question.....

Ted Cruise on the issues. Not sure how legit this site is...but some lil tid bits to talk about.

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Ted_Cruz_SenateMatch.htm

Ted is really good in some areas, and not so good in some others....What do you think? On paper he does look better then most neocons.....I've called Ted a neocon once before...But I will retract that until more can be known about this guy. Below are some of his positions I felt might raise discussion.

Favors topic 2:
Require hiring more women & minorities

Shouldn't the best man or women for the job be the person that gets it? Aren't we supposed to be for the individual. What do you think?

Strongly Favors topic 8:
Death Penalty

No bueno imo

Strongly Favors topic 15:
Expand the armed forces

This I know many DPers will not be pleased with.

Opposes topic 16:
Stricter limits on political campaign funds

hmmm, not sure i agree with this one.

Strongly Opposes topic 18:
Replace coal & oil with alternatives

Shouldn't the consumers and the free market be determining what energy source they want to use? Gov needs to stay out.He is against Cap and trade and climate tax, which is good imo

So you want them to be Ron?

So you want them to be Ron? Ok.

Rand thinks he can affect more change by becoming president, and is doing what he sees necessary to achieve that goal.

Here's a thought, you do what you think is best, and let them do the same.

Exactly

Ron changed my life but he didn't win, and honestly, people throughout history have always been hesitant to the ideas of liberty. So it will be hard for someone like Ron to ever win. That's a hard and sad truth. So I support whatever needs to be done to further liberty because the opposition has been doing whatever it takes for centuries.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

When Rand Paul sported his

When Rand Paul sported his new yarmulke and worshiped the so-called 'western wall' in israel (look it up- a picture speaks 1000 words) anyone with a lick of sense knew he was done, if they hadnt already prior to that. by done i mean completely discredited in the liberty movement.

Do what YOU want!

Ron Paul is a Republican. He is not leaving the GOP. Rand and Ted are Republicans, they will not be leaving the GOP. There are thousands of us, Astroturf and grassroots, in the GOP rEVOLution, the Indy Liberty Movement (which includes ALL parties).

As a Ron Paul RepubliCAN, because Ron Paul lead me into the GOP, where I sought to become a national delegate and became an elected member. Rand and Ted are now messangers to the rEVOLution. We learn politics from them as the Liberty Movement learned to lose their appathy and believe liberty will restore the Republic.

We have two seperate ways with a common goal, restore constitutional government, sound money and peace.

If you do not want to join the rEVOLution in the GOP, those of us on the rEVOLution support your choice and wish you the very best of luck. Amash is in the GOP as well.

They are asking you to stand with them and the rEVOKLution on your own grouds. If the GOP is not for you, OK. But either learn from the rEVOLution experience or from your Liberty Movement experience, and let's not knock each other.

Ask questions? Debate the hard subjects. Let's be respectful to each other's real world conditions. We all have our roles.

Sometimes I think you are as

Sometimes I think you are as delusional as LL.

After the RNC, he was convinced that GJ was the messiah and he will somehow pull off the upset of the millenia.

What happened? Nothing. We knew GJ wouldnt get more than X percentage of the vote because thats what tptb wanted.

Rand will not be President. Ron will not be President. the next President will just be another Obneyush.

When will we ever learn to accept logic, especially after all that we have witnessed.

I think we should concentrate on local efforts for one large, main reason:

WHO ELSE IS GOING TO WATCH YOUR BACK WHEN DRONES AND TYRANTS COME AFTER YOUR FAMILY AND PROPERTY? Its not going to be a senator from a state that you dont even live in.

I don't agree

The people are waking up.

I am working on my local level to disentangle mental health from gun legislation least we trade the second amendment for the fifth.

Very nice, Granger!!!

You are making it hard for me to even argue with you anymore. I think I have been doing the same to you.

WAHOR!

Look getting elected to

Look getting elected to congress is one thing. But none of us will ever live to see a Ron Paul as POTUS. He is right. But you have to give lip service to the establishment in certain areas. We have let our country go down the wrong road the last 100 years+ that we are not gonna change this over night. We are gonna have to have people that pay lip service on certain issues. Sadly, at the end of the day people like Rand and Ted would still be long shots. I really believe Hillary has this in the bag. Don't get me wrong I will strongly support Rand in the primary, but hell Rand winning the primary is a long shot in my mind. One positive I can find is that when you look at the stats behind Rand's facebook 'likes' (600,000) vs Ron's (1.2 Mil), is that we find that Rand is more popular among the boomers. Support Rand in 2016.

Rand

Rand Paul has as much of a chance at becoming POTUS as does David Duke. Get over it and stop wasting your time and that of others who come here to garner RELEVANT information.

Wow what a substantive

Wow what a substantive comment....

"but hell Rand winning the primary is a long shot in my mind."(me)

I don't see it as lip service

As a senator you are dealing with state, national and international contracts, treaties and the public. You are dealing with people who have a lot of money, people in all political parties, and this includes globally.

Rand has a HUGE job in networking, remaining within and as close to priorities, educating the public, the GOP and the world, about what is constitutional and correct, and where we have lost our way. There are going to be compromises.. there are going to be messages that the GOP will understand, the rEVOLution will understand, and the public, based on MSM, YouTube, blogs like DP, will all understand in their own way. We will not always agree.

Rand is more popular among those of us who joined the GOP, became National Delegates, were elected or appointed onto GOP central committees, were elected into offices within that, are running/campaigning for offices, continue to be delegates to state conventions.. we live in the same world, but we choice to deal within the establishment we have, as republiCANs in our rEVOLution, rather than destroy the establishment as a whole. We are winning. You may see that as lip service, but we do not.

Certain issues have HUGE MONEY AND POWER, like the federal reserve, and they are not so easy to disentangle from the ruinous path they are on, especially when they are international.

manystrom's picture

bump

I'm tired of politicians.

yeah but the problem is...

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

quote stolen from a dp member many moons ago.

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There is a long distance between

Refusing to participate and what is realy going on in the elections.

Crooked liar polls, see FU Frank. Wipes out , "refusing to particiapte". Prapaganda banker mafia mas. Who owns those electronic machines that just automaticly spit out the winner?

Who owns and finances the two parties and the elections. The same corps owned all be it hidden under several layers of corprations, the Bank mafia Rothschild, after all what good is counterfit money and flase national debts if you cant just digitize a bunch of money up out of thin air and buy everything. Wipes out , "refusing to particiapte".

So the real penalty for participationg in a lie heligan dialectic is that anything the liars do they do it in your name and you know who you voted for so you gave a moral consent for them to trash your good name. Kinda like I felt about Bush when I learned about that vile family.

Ill vote for Ron Paul or simular not for cowards, tricksters, and liars, who seek power to control and enrich themselves.

I dont know the real motive for Rand's betrayal. But he betrayed me personaly by endorsing Mittens while I spent my time and efforts to elect his father. No matter the real motive.

If the people of the USA cant have real elections and put forth their best leaders elections are a simple crooked lie and that Wipes out , "refusing to particiapte" types of arguments.

Ron Paul is my president, the end.

sovereign

Hear hear!!

; )