38 votes

Had talk with wife and we are asking questions - rightly so.

This is the letter I am sending to our pediatrician in the next week, 3-4 weeks from the expected date of our second child (girl). Please read and any feedback would be awesome. I have thought about including information for them to review as well in support of defensive inoculation.

This letter is to request comprehensive and complete information concerning vaccinations, specifically ingredients within and current schedule of inoculation(s) for newborns to four years of age. Our son is currently a patient of and was a patient of prior and has been since his birth. We are expecting a daughter March 21, 2013 and over the past four years I have educated myself further on vaccinations and their adverse effects, specifically the increase in claims of and links to neurological disorders, immunosuppressive complications and adverse allergic reactions that can arise due to the effects of vaccine ingredients and the methods by which they are derived/harvested/imbedded in the vaccine. We cannot in good conscience subject our daughter to potential risks if there is reason to believe or it is confirmed that the ingredients incorporated within the scheduled vaccinations can unnecessarily and needlessly bring causation for adverse effects that may arise in her, whether immediately upon injection or as may surface conditionally at a later time.

We appreciate your attention to this matter and please know that our request is for the ultimate safety of our child. We would be doing a great disservice to other parents in our situation by not inquiring about the viruses, chemicals and adjuvant ingredients we are allowing our child to be injected with. We would also be negligent if conditions would arise and we had remained silent about the possibilities of how those conditions may have been brought about. Thank you so much for your candidness and professionalism concerning our request and we will be eager to review your response. If you should have any questions please feel free to contact

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that's being a little dramatic

I had no problems at my last hospital birth. The nurse was curious about my reason, but was not pushy. She went through the rest of the stuff: Vitamin K, eyewash, etc. to make sure my wishes were followed. All the states have laws that let you decline - that doesn't mean the hospital people will like it, but whatever. I would print it all up and put it in a folder and toss it in my "going to the hospital" bag that stays in the trunk that last month.

I would also say that if your hospital is in a competitive market, you have less chance of being hassled. I remember complaining about a nurse once, and the administrator overheard me and came in asked if everything was OK. I probably got her fired, but hey she wasn't cut out for the work.

The one case I know of of baby snatching was in PA, I think where some zealous social worker went on a power trip because the mom didn't want to sign papers while in excruciating pain. I know HSDLA got involved and proceeded to sue the crap out of them, for kicking the mom out of the hospital over it.

If you've ever had a baby who needed immediate NICU attention, you can understand why some people are hesitant with a homebirth. The thought scares the fool out of my husband, especially after our son was born with a collapsed lung. Another issue is that most insurance will not cover midwives, making the MD/hospital route affordable.

If this goes down,

and the government wants to keep you or your infant imprisoned until you comply, pm me, and we can start the real revolution today. I would not let anyone stop me from taking my baby home. They will yield.


She will be considered a threat to the hive, if released into the general population.

Look at the dangers

Of prescription pills for simple ailments such as sleep aids, constipation, the runs and whatnot? Besides the alarming physical side effects, there are risks of serious psychological traumas.

Makes you hesitant to take them right? Now imagine how you would feel if you were required to take these pills.

Now imagine giving them to an infant. Even at an adjusted dose. You wouldn't even consider it.

Remember when butter was good for you, and margarine was bad for you? Then it was the other way around? Back and forth it went. Studies can be made to say anything depending on who is interpreting the data.

I don't trust big pharma and regulation any farther than I could spit.

Make them assume liability for Vaccines!

ONE LAST THING! You might consider printing out a vaccine liability contract that you make up yourself saying that if the doctors and/or nurses FORCE this vaccine on your child that they will become liable if your child becomes sick from that shot at any time in his life.

That will stop them cold. They won't risk their jobs and their livelihood to vaccinate your child. Especially if you make them sign it before the child is born. That way they won't accidentally/on purpose vaccinate your child when you aren't looking.

It depends on your state laws

you need to consider the level of constraint in your particular state and what their history of trying to snatch kids away from parents. I for one live in pretty much a nazi state so my approach to non vaccination is very measured to give my kids the biggest protection from vaccines and government workers who may want to overstep their power.

Lots of people go to the hospital intending to opt out of the vaccines for their newborn, and then find themselves threatened by the nurses that they won't be able to leave with their child if they don't agree to the vaccines.

So! Know your rights and the laws of your state. Print them out to flash them when need be. Know ahead of time what they may pull so you can anticipate it.

Please stop infighting...

difference in opinion is great but vulgarity based on a few comments is rather unnecessary. Your input is what I need, not to take away from it. You are all so awesome here because you all stand for your truths above all else.

We are using midwives, 4 of them...water birth possibly.

Father - Husband - Son - Spirit - Consciousness

My wife's midwife experience was wonderful.

Best wishes!

Free includes debt-free!

You are all truly appreciated...

This community is awesome! Thank you all for your feedback, advise and empathy. This is a very touchy subject to so many and prior to my education on the subject it was not touchy with me because I was ignorant to the issue in general. One small fight at a time, right? I will be revising based on your feedback and posting again in 1-2 days for a second feedback opportunity. For those who encouraged me NOT to send it, I'll assume you meant in ITS current condition and revise as collaberatingly suggested.

Peace and Love first and to you all.

Father - Husband - Son - Spirit - Consciousness

I would go even further than other posters here,

having raised 6 children, and long before naturopaths were even around, I had a doctor who went back each year for nutritional training. She was a great doctor, and had no ego, like so many. She , knowing me, often told me to do research on nutritional and herb cures for things, and if they worked, fine, but if not, then come back to her and she would try drugs, although she only used pure drugs, and never the mixtures they use now. When we had to move away, I asked her advice for how to find a doctor in the new area, and she said, Don't. Because doctors now are too quick to recommend surgery, drugs and never use nutritional answers to illnesses. She said if there is a problem, just go to the emergency room, and read up on nutrition, and feed your kids well, and use vitamins and supplements.

www.ChildhoodShots.com - one of many sites to give you info.

Ok, so I'm biased. This is my sister. But she's the one (eight kids ago) that encouraged me to do due diligence on the vaccine issue (as well as the "birth" issue).

As a result, we switched our OB doctor 7 months into my wife's first pregnancy. We had a hospital birth with a very precisely written birth plan that every nurse who was to deal with my wife got a copy of (as well as it being posted to our door).

Our son never left my side the entire time he was in the hospital, and the other 7 kids were born in the safety our our home with a lay midwife.

Not one of our very healthy kids (ages 10 months to 17 years old) have every got a shot, of any kind. They are very healthy kids. Yes, we watch what we eat, and eat whole foods as much as possible. We have only one child with mild seasonal allergies, and no autism.

Our kids go to our very non-vaccine friendly doctor every 2 to 3 years, for an occasional pesky cough or sore throat. Other than that, their bodies do very well to fight off most things.

At the end of the day, your kids health is YOUR responsibility and oversight - no medical provider will EVER take responsibility if your child has adverse reactions to their vaccines. Best of L.U.C.K. to you (Laboring Under Correct Knowledge).

Restore the Foundations - "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?"

Another overlooked issue

Ask for the dose by weight, and see how it compares to the way adults are dosed.
Are you two really on the fence, or just trying to wake up your doctor?
Want to watch your doctor have seizure? Tell him you do not want a birth certificate... lol!

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

the stranger's picture

aught to be and the way things are

This letter is so well written and professional that it serves as a small public service in-and-of itself. Reading the comments so far, I expect this little post to get some useful and varied responses. But the comments that resonate with me are Nystrom's and similar. Sometimes you have suspend your perspective on what is right and concentrate on what is. What are the sides, what do they represent, where is balance the power, and how does that affect you?

You may have to choose between fighting a cause for the greater good or ensuring the safety of your own. The two can go hand in hand, an argument can be made that they should, but it doesn't always work that way.

If you don't like the doc's advice you may be free to find another. In a different situation, you may need to accomplish your heath objectives with minimal attention. Imagine a setting where those not vaccinated are considered a risk to others. Imagine a situation where the vaccination is required. You may need to know this subject forward and backward to make sound choices under fire; long distance planning when possible. Best to you and yours.

Remove this sentence.

"We would also be negligent if conditions would arise and we had remained silent about the possibilities of how those conditions may have been brought about." This admission of negligence could/may be used against you, in some perverted manner. I would remove it.

This letter is wonderfully

This letter is wonderfully written to address vaccines. Since you've been to this doctor before you should be able to make the descision of whether or not your pediatrician will take this letter very well.. When I told my sons doctor I was opting out of vaccines 'indefinitely' she told me she would report me to DHHS. Needless to say I now drive hours away to a doctor who believes as I do that vaccines do more harm than good to anyone.

My daughter

is 12. Never had a needle! She is lean, beautiful and never gets sick for more than a few hours. One chicken pok scar.

Don't send it.

Ask simply for how they will treat you if you decide to follow an "alternative vaccination schedule". Don't give specifics. Just keep letting them know that you and your wife are evaluating options so you appreciate any information he can tell you specifically on each vaccination, what it's for and what it does. Ask him if he will give you an alternative schedule.

Bear in mind he'll immediate advise against it. Get past that. What you are looking for is once he gives you his objections, will he chill out and respect your family's decisions. If he will, stay with him. If not, find a new Dr.

Then get to a naturopath licensed physician, pay the cash (probably around $75) and have them educate you on alternative vaccine schedules and what to do in the event your child gets one of the extremely rare ailments the vaccines are intended to protect. I.e. have a back up plan.

This is a family decision. No reason to get belligerent with anyone. What you should be looking for are trusted family medical partners who will respect your family's private decisions.

I agree. Don't send it.

Before I was hip to this vaccine thing I requested - in writing at the hospital and at the doctors office- that my kids (twins) not be vaccinated with HepB or the flu shot. Long story short. The kids GOT THE FREAKIN' VACCINES ANYWAY!!! I only found out 3 years later when I received a copy of their health records for school. I promptly took my kids out that practice and now go to a naturapath.

I also homeschool (partly) so that I don't have to deal with the vaccine issue.

Can you not sue?

Surely penetrating the flesh of a child with pointy metal in express violation of the direction of the parent is assault of a minor. Injecting them with things you do not want them injected with only seems worse. How does anyone get away with this? Shall we run around with needles pumping the children of doctors full of random things against their will to prove that this is criminal? I would be irate!

Good advice.


Our 2nd child has had no vaccinations.

We could not in faith have her vaccinated. I will be honest with you, though, that doubts don't persist...but at the end of the day, we just could not move forward in faith or in good conscience.

i got all the recommended vaccines and i turned out fine

Do some due diligence of your own. Please dont decide based solely on solicited advise from the dp

Since this is a complicated topic and most likely not your area of expertise, i would recommend starting earlier for your next child

It's different today than when you were vaccinated.

If I could vaccinate my child today with the same vaccines I had, with the same contents and on the same schedule, I would. But I can't. They have made it impossible to do so.

i have no basis to (or interest in) dispute (-ing) this

That was a rhetorical anecdote. Here is another: i have never been sick in my entire life.

My only point is that he should have looked into this seriously and critically before now. And that he shouldnt assume vaccines are a dirty trick to poison his child because there was a link and comment to his thread on this website. These are not decisions to be taken lightly

I think your assertion is wrong

The mainstream view is that vaccines are good. Research into the subject usually turns people away from them. So, why is it that you claim they're not educated on the subject when I guarantee it was exactly education that made them skeptical in the first place?

I highly doubt they are taking this decision lightly. This is their children's welfare. If you're implying that good health is non-existent by those who don't take vaccines then how do you explain the human race surviving before the existence of vaccines?

Can't base it on what you had

30 years ago, children received 10 vaccinations through age 6. The current vaccination schedule is 36 - 38 vaccinations through age 6. You cannot compare what you received as a child to what is happening today.

THAT is not good advice.



Drmomma.org? Seriously?

Does all of your medical research come from paraphrasing the author of "Children should sleep next to parents until 5"?

I will assume my very simple point in the previous posting was not clear

And just in case...

You're trolling old posts, I ran across this and thought you might want to check it against other information. 49 vaccines before age 6. Get educated.


juneau, a few items for your review

Im glad you caugt the wikipedia irony, it was supposed to slightly lighten the tone. After all, I am not really a 60 year old pron star... we just share the same name. Also, I would like to quickly point out that (A) I never doubted that there are more vaccines recommended today as compared to the past (B) I have not painstakingly reviewed the relevant literature to this topic [but then neither I, nor my soon to be born child, are scheduled for any injections] and (C) I am very well educated; especially in logic and science . But thank you for your concern.

Apparently we were equally annoyed by each other's comments. I was willing to let it pass because I am sure we are generally in greater agreement than disagreement. I sincerely would like to know where you stand on a few assertions because I am hoping this has only been a misunderstanding. I am most willing to admit when I am wrong. Please skim through the following list an tell me with which items hyou disagree and why:

(1) vaccines are intended to be helpful. (2) The thousands of people involved in developing vaccines, and th emillions involved in advocating for them are generally well meaning (3)in general, vaccines have previously been fabulously successful in preventing illness and disease (4) The usefullness of vaccines has been studied using the scientific process (5) Scientific medical research is a complicated topic because of the difficulty associated with isolating variables for ethical and other reasons (6) the conventional wisdom, that which is overwhelmingly supported by medical professionals (MD stands for medical doctor -> not Mother Docter with an associates degree from UofPhoenix :{), is that vaccines can prevent illness and disease (7) For someone who is not a medical professional, it is all indicate that one is pretty far behind to be thought of as seriously looking at this issue (10) breakfast is the most important meal of the day (11) being skeptical is a good thing (12) Being skeptical involves evaluating claims scientifically (13) being skeptical means assuming the logical conclusion is not automatically that which is opposite of that which is generally or widely believed


for a 60-year-old porn star (or someone truly confused about their identity; sarcasm noted).

Once you have your baby and do your "scientific research," let me know which toxin you decide to inject into your child. After all, your leading comments infer your trust in the medical/pharmaceutical/governmental research that has (supposedly) taken place on vaccines. (Google that and see how LITTLE research has actually been done.)

Would love to hear what you decide to do.