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Bitcoin rivals Silver! Threatens Central Banks




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Does intangible = worthless?

1) If you believe that something must be "tangible" to have value, why are you wasting your time on the internet?

2) Aristotle's properties of good money: Durable, Portable, Divisible, Intrinsic Value. Gold is pretty good, though it can be destroyed and once we figure out that whole "fusion" thing, it can be created. It's portable, unless you need to buy a car or a house. It's divisible, but not too practical if you're just buying a can of soda.

Then we come to instrinsic value. PM-bugs always claim that the metal is worth something. But honestly, jewelry doesn't have much utility, and gold-plated HDMI cables don't offer noticable advantages over the basic ones. So what utility does the metal *actually* have?

Bitcoin by comparison is more durable than gold, infinitely more portable (by speed and weight), it's effortlessly divisible down to 8 decimal places (or more if required). But does it have intrinsic value?

Given that Bitcoins are programmatically scarce and will never exceed 21M units (no inflation beyond that point), are not succeptible to tyrannical force (like your gold safe is), can be accessed from anywhere in the world, it circumvents banks, and circumvents governments? Yes. Bitcoin has Intrinsic Value.

But if you truly believe that you must be able to hold something in your hand in order for it to be "real", throw your computer away, because you'll never need it again.

jrd3820's picture

Does intangible=worthless?

Not always. In my personal opinion it does equal worthless when it comes to currency.

"So what utility does the metal *actually* have?"
Silver has a lot of uses. Pharmaceuticals to water purification. It's a great industrial and electrical metal. I can send you tons of links if you would like them, but the information is very easy to access.

In an economic shtf collapse type situation with bitcoin as far as I understand (which I will admit to not understanding completely) I would need to be able to access my computer and or the internet in order for my bitcoins to be of any value, is that correct? What good would that do me if I cannot readily access either?

What good would silver do me in that case? I will be holding it and it's value will be in my hand or pocket to use as trade options.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of it because I do not understand bitcoin so I could be wrong.

No Bitcoiner here is ANTI-silver.

No one here who advocates Bitcoins are arguing that PMs don't have a valuable role.

As for the oft-asked SHTF question, Bitcoin communicates via the TCP/IP protocol. Thus "the Internet" isn't mandatory, but much of the 3rd-party infrastructure has been built upon "the Internet". If you use a cloud-based wallet as opposed to one stored locally, you would likely need, "the Internet". Otherwise, any device capable of communicating via the TCP/IP protocol will do (cell phone, computer, cable box, modem, whatever).

So if the power and internet gets knocked out for an extended period of time (read: weeks) it would be tricky, but not impossible to maintain a Bitcoin network.

I personally feel that those who believe in catastrophic SHTF scenarios haven't given much personal though to what would happen in such a situation. Given that 100% of our industry runs on electricity and about 98% relies on the internet, these would be the first two things restored in such an event. I'm honestly not too worried about it.

jrd3820's picture

Thanks for your response

I never said anyone was ANTI silver, just letting you know where I saw the *actual* utility as you asked.

"So if the power and internet gets knocked out for an extended period of time (read: weeks) it would be tricky, but not impossible to maintain a Bitcoin network."

Thanks for clarifying that because I understood it to be impossible, but as I said I admit my misunderstanding of bitcoin.

I am an off grider.... well kind of... I go on and off grid for now but I am working on permanently getting off grid within the next 2 or so years so I see silver as a better option for me although I do appreciate your information because I was under the impression that one would have to be able to access the internet to maintain their bitcoin network.

Won't you miss us?

When you're off the grid, how will you enjoy the dailypaul?

jrd3820's picture

lol

I will miss the DP, but I will enjoy my solitude also :)

BitCoin Will never secure as

BitCoin Will never be as secure as silver as long as bitcoin doesn't have any tangible assets. There are so many artificial catastrophes that can potentially plague bitcoin. I am all for competing currencies but solar flares, computer viruses, and hacking are all problems that silver can stand up to. If they confiscate your silver, then chances are they have already completely shut you out of bitcoin and the internet by then.

you know

i have been very open minded about getting some silver... even if there no serious collapse which i still think is gonna happend i wanna have something to protect me against inflation cause by money printing. lol

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

Who wants to trade

Bitcoins for silver

me

i'll trade my bitcoins for your silver.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
My ฿itcoin: 17khsA7MvBJAGAPkhrFJdQZPYKgxAeXkBY
http://www.dailypaul.com/303151/bitcoin-has-gone-on-an-insan...

id

trade FRN"S for silver :D

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

When

bitcoin has been used as a currency for thousands of years...then you can say it is rivaling silver.

Precedent is everything.

Slaves were used for thousands of year too.

That makes them superior to paid labor.

I'm

just saying with a currency...you want one that has tested the sands of time.

salt

Using that logic, gold will always and forever be a useful currency. Just like salt.

I'm really not trying to be an ass here, but because gold was valuable yesterday doesn't mean it's going to be valueable tomorrow. By extension, gold's history, or as you put it "the test of time" is a meaningless measure for its value tomorrow.

Now obviously I don't think gold will be worthless tomorrow, but I also don't think something needs to exist for thousands and thousands of years to be trusted. Airplanes have only existed about a century, yet I presume you've flown in one?

It

doesn't need to be around for thousands of years.

But here are a few important points about gold that make it perfect for a currency and unlikely something else would take its place.

1.) Incredibly limited or scarce....it is physically impossible to create gold and that is probably the most important aspect of it....it's only created in a dying star - which takes away any possibility of it ever being manipulated.

2.) It doesn't rust or deteriorate....so if one so choose they could keep it for thousands of years.

3.) It is able to be melted down and formed into different weights and shapes for easy use as a currency.

4.) It has outperformed every known currency in its historical use as money.

5.) It is physical money....an asset you can hold in your hand.

I think bitcoin is great and i like the concept and idea of it. But I hate to say I don't think it will ever rival silver or gold as a currency...it isn't a physical asset....and some may argue against this...but because it is electronic in nature it opens the possibility that it can be replicated or inflated.

Another drawback i see with bitcoin is that it isn't physical....it's electronic. Some may view this stuff as far fetched....but what if EMP attacks or some other form of mass power outage (solar flares) occurs in different areas of the planet? Bitcoin suddenly becomes worthless.

All that said....anything that helps to get us off the monopoly of fiat currency we have going right now is a plus....and I'm all for other currencies like Bitcoin entering the market...i just can't see it ever rivaling silver or gold as the king of currencies.

Yeah the

title is incorrect. He meant to say it's at parity with silver.

i

don't think central banks are threaten just yet...but as more and more people find other currecys to use not the federal reserve notes then it will be threaten..

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

Still a fiat currency

Also, if you actually look at how complicated Bitcoins are to use, even for a simple transaction, you'll understand that it will never leave the fringes of adoption.

Bitcoin mining involves a large amount of CPU/GPU power for very little in return on a personal computer. Maybe if you own servers and don't pay the electricity bill you can profit from Bitcoin mining. You can't get something for nothing so don't try.

Furthermore, the value is very volatile. In early 2011, they were worth less than a dollar. By June they were worth upwards of $30. By the end of 2011 they were back under $4. Today they are around $20.

If you want to use bitcoins as a medium of exchange for individual transactions, then go ahead. I would caution you against thinking of it as an investment.

Buy gold. Buy silver. Rand 2016.

Thats

a good thing...you don't want mining bitcoins to be easy...you wind up with the currency we have being inflated to gazillions.

Bitcoins

are complex to understand, true, but they are simple to use. How many people know exactly how car engines and transmissions work? Yet millions drive cars.

I sent Michael Nystrom a bitcoin directly in a few seconds, making a few clicks, for his Daily Paul fundraiser. Meanwhile all the other donors were struggling to pay via PayPal (involving fees) or checks in snail mail, or other slow means.

I agree with your last line, though ;)

Edit: I also agree with not thinking of Bitcoin as an investment.

What is my computer doing when mining bitcoins.

Sending out spam? Cracking Passwords? Running a DOS attack?

Or just running in circles. That is not making/servicing anything. Where's the profit for someone so they give me a bitcoin?

Free includes debt-free!

Most people

should not bother mining bitcoins. The competition is pretty high. Think of it like this, would you go out and mine gold now? Same thing. It's easier to buy it (although some people still do mine it).

To answer your question your computer is solving a hard math problem. More info here: http://bitcoinquickstart.com/what-is-mining

I just understand Bitcoins.

can not seem to grasp bit coins, Who is to say someone wont just start "Making" and inflating that currency. Also I don't see how any real work gets done to create them. Can someone explain this better to me, I swear I have watched every video on them and It still seems odd to me.

Try this

site:

http://bitcoinquickstart.com/how-does-bitcoin-work

To answer your question directly, every bitcoin ever created and every transaction involving the coins is recorded in a distributed database called the block chain.

The block chain is completely public. Anyone can view it all. Counterfeit coins are immediately detected and rejected by the network. Bitcoin works by using cryptography. Computers can check for valid transactions by using math, but without knowing the person's private key. The cryptography is explained in depth in this video.

thanks

im gonna watch that cryptography video.. to understand bit coin more but im still very open minded about bit coin and silver.

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

so

will this undermind the federal reserve notes as more and more people use alternative currecy's?

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

Yes.

.

well

im all for alternative currency's not paper notes ;)

Albert Camus — 'The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.'

.

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