34 votes

I Started Carrying Today. I Didn't Ask Permission.

It is my hope to actually say this one day, but I'd like to be a little more educated on the "legal" consequences before doing so. Also, I don't have a concealable handgun yet, and honestly, I've yet to muster up the courage to defy the State in this regard. (I'm ashamed!)

If we all just quit asking for permission from the State to do things, their relevance would fade a lot more quickly.

I realize every state is different, but generally speaking, if you defend yourself or someone else with lethal force while carrying a firearm "illegally" in the eyes of state bureaucrats, can you get in trouble?

What are some of the biggest concerns about carrying a firearm without a permit?

UPDATE: I guess I knew about this option, but it slipped my mind:

www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf#page=42

Sounds like I'm okay as long as it's completely concealed and in, or in route to, my vehicle. It's not clear about if I'm returning to my home from my vehicle.

PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1)on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2)inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly,
or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor
vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's
control at any time in which:
(1)the handgun is in plain view; or
(2)the person is:
(A)engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B)prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C)a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 70.01.



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

"Nonapplicability" of 46.02 and "traveling"

For OP Robhino

I've been visiting the DailyPaul now for a while and decided to subscribe just recently. I'm a bit new to Liberty, but I've been reading and researching to get up to speed.

I wanted to comment on your post about open-carry in the state of Texas by first pointing to the Texas Constitution Bill of Rights

"Article 1. Sec.23.RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall
have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of
himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law,
to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime."

From my understanding we have the right to bear arms, but legislature has the power to tell us when, where, and how to "with a view to prevent crime."

Two other important Sections to consider when determining who has the power are section 1 and section 2.

"Sec.1.FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free
and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the
United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the
perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of
local self-government, unimpaired to all the States."
A
"Sec.2.INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF
GOVERNMENT. All political power is inherent in the people, and all
free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for
their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to
the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject
to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable
right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as
they may think expedient."

In regards to Penal Code Title 10 Ch 46.02 Unlawful Carrying of Weapons, I found this part to be particularly interesting just a little further down under "Nonapplicability."

"Penal Code Title 10. Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, and Morals
Chapter 46. Weapons Sec. 46.15 Nonapplicability (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:(2)is traveling;"
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm

At first glance I didn't think much about the term "travel" being used in the code, but then I remembered hearing and reading that exact term being used in constitutional arguments, especially in regards to "driving" and the requirement for "licensing."

The definition of "travel" from an online dictionary(Black's Law)
Travel: To go from one place to another at a distance; to journey; spoken of voluntary change of place. See White v. Beazley, 1 Barn. & Aid. 171; Hancock v. Rand, 94 N. Y. 1, 46 Am. Rep. 112; Gholson v. State. 53 Ala. 521, 25 Am. Rep. 652; Campbell v. State, 28 Tex. App. 44, 11 S. W. 832; State v. Smith, 157 Ind. 241, 61 N. E. 566, 87 Am. St. Rep. 205.
http://thelawdictionary.org/travel/

I'm putting this out there for everyone's review and would like to see how this fits into the current discussion.
I just love the DailyPaul and all the info it has to offer, such a great community!

Peace!

"Liberty is the soul's right to breathe, and when it cannot take a long breath laws are girded too tight. Without liberty, man is a syncope." -Henry Ward Beecher

Welcome to the DP!

I nominate this comment for best first post on the DP! That my friend...was an All Star first post/comment! Keep them coming! Start posting and commenting more bud. Welcome aboard!

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

LOL

I saw this at first glance and thought it said "I started crying today and didn't ask permission" and I was tromping on over here to tell you: "Dude... SHUT UP!"

...but as you can see I was mistaken...

So the title is nothing but a

So the title is nothing but a lie.

Larry in North Carolina
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to not support Ron Paul!

Not recommended

Don't carry on your person without a CHL in Texas. Otherwise if you have to use it your life as you know it is over. And if you don't have to use it and you get caught... same thing. After that you will be a felon and your chance at carrying legally will be gone.

We have quite a few weird laws here in Pa.

but in our State Constitution is one dilly of a protection, it states "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be questioned".
Now if I'm to understand this correctly I'd assume that this actually makes it illegal for an authority figure, local or Federal, to even question you about being armed or for legislators to throw roadblocks in the way of citizens arming their selves.

There are no politicians or bankers in foxholes.

I lived in NYC for a year

And while I did not conceal carry I was prepared to defend myself in my home. I moved from Indiana where I legally owned both my 1911 and 20g shotgun and was licensed to conceal carry which I did frequently. Then to NYC where just to apply for a permit for the shotgun costs around $800 (i'm recalling from memory), the pistol permit was well over a grand, and that was just to apply! I was on a tight budget to begin with and was not going to pay for a right that naturally exists.

No thanks. I don't need your permission to protect myself. If I had to use deadly force I was happy to fight in court the unconstitutional charge of possessing a firearm w/o permit.

Needless to say after having one to0 many brushes with authority during the Occupy protests and seeing the state have no regard for the law, I got the hell out of dodge.

I'm happy not to live in the authoritarian Babylon known as NYC.

edit: grammer

For real....

I was there in grad school pre-9/11. Always thought I wanted to move back, but it isn't the same city anymore. Sad.

What would the Founders do?

Better to be judged by twelve....

than carried by six.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

You don't need permission from the government to carry.

The second amendment and fourth have you covered. If you have time, Google 'Carl Miller Constitution Man' and watch his videos or read a pdf of the transcript. His sounds a little crazy at times and I wouldn't recommend everything he does, but he does know how to teach you to assert your rights and fight an unconstitutional law in court.

right, the second amendment is our permit

We should print out our own “permit” cards with the second amendment printed on it so if we are ever asked if we have a permit we can proudly say yes and produce it if needed

CA City Police Advice

A friend of mine spoke to an officer, in a CA city, who was investigating a mugging or other similar crime in her neighborhood. She said she wanted to carry, but it was too hard to get a permit.

The officer pointed out that to do so, anyway, is only a misdemeanor.

It is always a good idea to know your rights and the consequences before you take an action, because there are probably things you can do in advance to mitigate the consequences (like burn inflamatory letters railing against the government, stockpile your ammo at another location, and get a job at a nursing home), in case you end up using it, and the prosecutors are on the fence about what to do with you.

Unfortunately, the D.A. is a political position, so selective enforcement can go either way.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

So your headline is a

So your headline is a complete lie.

You can look at it that way...

...and you wouldn't be incorrect.

I was trying to call attention to the idea of having to get a permit to exercise your right to defend yourself and the way we're coerced with threat of jail time into accepting that.

Do you have anything constructive to add?

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

Yes. Write headlines that are

Yes. Write headlines that are less click-bait and better reflect the commentary. You knew exactly what you were writing. I'm blocking you for wasting my time.

People need to chill out.

People need to chill out. You're wasting you own time if you click on a post about carrying firearms and you're not interested in the discussion. Besides, whose the one wasting his time commenting on a post that is supposedly wasting his time?

Sorry to hear that...

If anyone else feels my posts are a waste of time, feel free to block me too.

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

.

Done :)

I Have Been Told...

...regularly and proudly, that Texas is a bastion of freedom...if so, how could you be so fearful and seemingly so restricted in exercising a fundamental liberty, unless......

Pffttt.

Pffttt

I don't know who you've been listening to, but you should read up on the topics of "the Waco massacre" (Waco is in Texas you know) and the "Eldorado child seizure," unless the associated events have dropped down the memory hole.

Having Difficulty...

...seeing the dripping sarcasm, I see.

I can't do much for the cause in jail...

...though Bradley Manning has raised awareness.

There's a lot of hype about that Lt, while we do have a decent business climate, there are still Statist tendencies and we have concealed carry laws that require a CHL.

I'm fearful because I have people and things that depend on me, and so I'm vulnerable to threats that may prevent me from being as disobedient that I'd like.

A lot of people seem to exploit that...the it's-easier-to-go-along or the pick-your-battles mentality. I've said those things before myself. I guess everyone has their line in the sand...

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

This is usually the excuse we

This is usually the excuse we all use when we're afraid to exercise our rights. Most pastors in the soviet union said the same thing, so the government had complete control over the content of their sermons.

If it makes you feel any better, I know a lot of people who carry without "permission". as another commenter noted, the second amendment is our permission.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Understand...

...that my comment was not directed at you specifically, but was made to illustrate a larger point, one in which things that are frequently trumpeted (such as the bastion of freedom that Texas supposedly is) are often different than one would gather at first blush.

I applaud your contemplation and support your aims and your desire.

I will leave you with a thought....a right not exercised is one to be lost.

Stand on liberty, fully aware of the responsibilities and possible consequences.

A friend of mine got 10 years

for shooting a guy who broke into his home. This was before castle laws were enacted in FL. The guy he shot, was a convicted rapist that was released. To make it even worse he had AIDS and already had several charges of man slaughter on top of the rape charges because he had AIDS. Thankfully none of his victims contracted the disease, from my understanding. The guy didn't die, unfortunately, but he will spend the rest of his miserable life in a wheel chair.

Perhaps there is something between the lines for you

in here:
http://www.agweek.com/event/article/id/20546/

People have the rights they claim. Governments try to curb the rights of people and exert control. Those who claim their rights very loudly risk drawing unwanted attention.

Also, are you familiar with the "one law at a time" rule? Know why most people who get busted for possession of pot (in their cars) get pulled over? Speeding, or a tail light out, touching the white line (yes, seriously.)

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

RE: Asking permission - This may be a stretch of a comparison

depending on how you look at it. Laws are broken every day, yet how many of them could potentially save your life?

Some people smoke, carry, and sell weed(among other things considered illegal) their entire lives and never get "busted". Same can be said for driving without a license/insurance, and even coming into this country. I've known people that also carried handguns illegally and have never gotten busted. Yes it's a risk, but weigh the possible consequences.

What holds us back? FEAR - as you've pointed out.

Now consider the consequences. By comparison, one is much more severe than the others. However, is it worth living in FEAR of the consequence that "may never" come, considering what the alternative might be if faced with a life or death situation? For instance in the defense of your loved ones? Is it really worth putting an unjust law above the safety and security of your family? Specially when you consider that government gets to do whatever they please in the name of "safety and security" of the country?

I'm not telling you to break any laws. What I am telling you is to weigh your options so that you have no possible regrets later in life.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

what are the risks?

What are the risks of getting your fingerprints taken? Suppose a murder takes place and the criminal escapes, they are able to get fingerprints from the crime scene. Now the prints they collected are not complete, but they do have a database of ccw handgun owners with fingerprints on file and Rob happens to be the closest match they can find. I'll bet he will now be their #1 suspect, probably get arrested and charged with a murder he had nothing to do with.

I know some states require fingerprints and others don't. I just can't see how anyone concerned with liberty and privacy would submit their biometrics voluntarily. This is what they do with criminals, take their fingerprints! Why are we subjecting ourselves to being treated like criminals. I'm not so sure I even want to give them a SS#