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Apple Inc. is Anti-Liberty in Every Way

I was recently downvoted on a post where a video was posted as an iTunes exclusive when I said I refused to download Apple's garbageware to watch the video. I realize many of us at the DP still do not know how anti-liberty Apple really is. I suppose I should elaborate for the Apple protectionists out there. The simple idea of being an 'exclusive' medium for an advertisement sounds exactly like Apple. That is not the only reason I will not support this company, there are MANY that have slowly formed over the years.

1. Apple is a bully to its users, and its developers. I am a developer by trade. Apple has repeatedly used their terms of service to restrict what kinds of apps we are allowed to develop for their platform in order to protect their own stock apps from competition. They have been forced to relent a bit on this but trust me this was not by choice.

2. When Apple files for patents like this one it helps illustrate their corporate personality, and their position on freedom. It allows the government to remotely shut down all iphone cameras within range of a kill signal. This can be used at protests for example: http://www.zdnet.com/apple-patent-could-remotely-disable-pro...

3. Proprietary connectivity for no real reason is immoral and anti-competitive. It is legal, however it certainly isn't 'free' as in freedom. It is another form of a digital cage. Apple forces you to purchase new chargers and accessories from one device to the next. This practice is purely for profit. This is something the rest of the industry has finally stopped doing after standards have become accepted... except of course for Apple.

4. They absolutely abuse the concept of intellectual property (which I personally believe should be completely dissolved - this is like saying you can patent a mathematical equasion). You should ne be able to patent round rectangles for example. Apple is suing dozens of companies at this very moment, all for intellectual property disputes. For more on why I fundimentally disagree with this, watch this short documentary on IP: http://patentabsurdity.com/watch.html

5. Apple bundles lots of extra crap into all of its windows software (hence the garbageware comment). iTunes installed loads of background services which are completely unrelated to iTunes and start every time you tun on your computer. iTunes is a resource hog, it is intentionally crippled to 'lock' you into Apple products / services / multimedia formats. They want all music to be loaded with DRM, and they are happy to completely wipe out your music collection if you aren't careful. Some of it you can remove during installation, some of it you cannot.

6. They use the 'American Company' routine to encourage 'patriotic purchases', but in truth staffing, component purchases, assembly, etc. are primarily outsourced. For example, one of their chief rivals, South Korean Samsung provides more jobs in the US than Apple does. Read more: http://www.rjkoehler.com/2012/08/28/samsung-better-for-ameri...

7. Worker conditions seem to be unimportant to Apple when it comes to foreign employees. It farms out its labor to China where workers are clearly not doing very well. In fact, after a series of worker suicides at the factory the company has installed suicide nets, and imposed strict anti suide policies. How do you get people to stop killing themselves? We all know the answer to that is more rules and restrictions right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

8. Apple conspires with major companies to keep prices artificially high. They did it with music, then movies and tv shows, and even ebooks: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/11/business/la-fi-tn-eb...

9. Hackintoshes being 'illegal' is BS. If I buy their software, and build my own computer... how can it be illegal for me to put that software I purchased on the hardware I purchased??? Well, according to Apple's TOS it is, and if you try it they will sue the iCrap out of you like they did to one local company here in south FL called Psystar a few years back: http://www.techspot.com/news/48604-psystar-loses-latest-appe...

I could literally go on and on listing the disgusting business practices of this company. What I cannot figure out is why most people seem to have no idea (or not care), even a community as well informed as this one. Are there any others out there who understand where I'm coming from here?

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Yes you're right that's what

Yes you're right that's what apple says publicly about DRM, but is exactly opposite to what they actually practice. When you are looking into the unethical practices of Monsanto do you go to their corporate website for the truth? C'mon.

Unfortunately for Apple, actions speak louder than words:


Apple <3 DRM in every form and it has become worse with time.

"Psystar knew they were stealing from Apple, and they got exactly what they had coming."

Is Dell, Asus, Lenovo, etc. stealing from Microsoft? Psystar was PURCHASING Apple's software and installing it on non Apple hardware. It's the EXACT same thing with one difference. Microsoft allows this and always has. Apple does not. Actually I cannot think of a single operating system that claims it is 'illegal' to install on hardware other than that which is made by the OS developer. If there are, I equally disagree with them too. Should it be illegal to install a ford motor in a chevy and sell it? Would that be 'stealing' from Ford if the engine is bought and paid for? How can you not see the difference here?

- Grow Mushrooms at Home

Psystar violated Apple's EULA

Psystar violated Apple's EULA and copyright by installing OSX illegally on unauthorized hardware. Private property rights were upheld in this ruling. If a person wants to, they can purchase a license from Microsoft and install Windows on any number of boxes, including a Mac. Apple chooses not to license their OS because they make their money from the combined product of software and hardware, NOT just the software. This is their right.

Apple and Microsoft: Paternalistic in their own ways

MS Word was written for the Mac, the "computer for the rest of us."

Both companies assumed: you can't type, you can't spell, You want the computer/software to make most decisions, and make grammatical corrections for you.

It was so bad that I used WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS until my employer used Y2k as an excuse to force its removal. MS Word menus are still an awful time-wasting mess.

Word and all the MS programs assume they know better, to the point that autocorrect (defaulted on) will change your contracting party names, and "correct" the case on a license plate number. It's crazy-making authoritarian (and patronizing) software.

Apple //, et. al., were "closed" systems, making DOS the worldwide winner (no thanks to IBM), purely by accident, as it stiffled innovation on Apple computers. The more Apple tried to control their product, the more the inability to control their product gave the advantage to DOS. IBM's feeble attempt at control (the IBM PCjr had incompatible ports to keep adult from buying it for themselves), only hurt them.

IBM was too big and too slow to take advantage, and lost out to lots of smaller upstarts using DOS and building their own hardware. (IBM: "Color? We make business machines. We don't need color.")

The whole thing was a lesson in market forces, and the same will happen to governments. Systems with freedom built in are more flexible, and survive change better. Apple could chose to harness innovation by allowing developers in, or they can keep playing this game until they become the next IBM PC.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

You are a developer by trade...

...but you don't know how to shut down background services? Computer 101.

Which makes me question...




Just sayin'.

Exercise Liberty!

America Rising.
The Constitution Stands.

"That the pen is mightier than the sword would be proven false; if I should take my sword and cut off the hand that holds the pen" - American Nomad

of course I do... not sure

of course I do... not sure you're getting the point - why would I download iTunes just to disable extra needless services and uninstall bundled software I don't want? Of course I *can* but why wouldn't I choose to when I can just use winamp, or vlc, or media monkey, or amarok, or any of the other bazillion music managers that *don't* do this?

- Grow Mushrooms at Home

Not everyone who's used Apple is a developer or IT guru.

Just sayin'. :)

I believe in the freedom to be what we choose to be.

Walled Gardens

That's Apple's game.

As a private company, Apple has no prerogative to unlock its software and content to other platforms. If you don't like it, either hack it (voids your EULA), or choose another company. It's that simple.

I don't understand the QQ...?


in other words tyranny is fine as long as its privatized. LMAO

Jury Nullification is a power of the last resort against tyranny.


If you have a choice whether to buy Apple products, it ain't tyranny.

Apples products are private

Apples products are private property and it is permissible for Apple to sell only to those who agree to use it in a certain way.

Even if Apple does things you do not like, their products are theirs and if they want to sell them to people who will consent to a user agreement, that is their business.

It's not Apple that you are mad at, it is IP and corporate law that has created such behemoths.

Jesus, leave Apple alone, at least their trying to market a product that people will like and will improve their life.

And who cares if they are too expensive, that is just good marketing. I hope the people who made Apple are rich, they brought communication to a lot of people's hands.

If you wanna rave at something, try IP law, or even better, the very existence of a coercive state.

And yes, Apple is a branch of the fascist tree.

But so is every other business and entrepreneur who makes a lot of money in the "legal" market.

You have to incorporate or form some sort of legal protection or else the state will rob you blind.

The tax code is structured so it is impossible to earn Federal Reserve Notes in great quantities without the state finding out.

So you have to play along with the system to some extent to create wealth.

It is all about how far you are willing to take it.

Yeah, Apple sucks in a lot of ways, but the problems Apple has are simply the symptoms.

It is the coercive state that is the cause of the disease, the root.

Apple's stance on IP is my only gripe with the company.

That's a pretty loose

definition of Tyranny. Only a libertarian could come up with this. To a hammer, every problem looks like a nail? iTunes went a long way toward out flanking corruption in the music business, by reducing the price structure, and recreating the delivery, of music, within a legal framework that still pays musicians, while mollifying the monopolistic music giants. Garage band has put a recording studio, which not long ago, cost around $250,000, on every laptop, for less than 5k! That could be interpreted as democratization. Everywhere I look people are walking around texting and fiddling with their smartphones, a phenomenon less than ten years old. How is that connectivity Tyrannical? I interface with the Daily Paul on a mac. Revolution after revolution, in industry after industry, has been pioneered by Apple. They've done more for typography than Gutenberg. Windows has been ripping them off, in terms of features and user interface for 30 years. If you bought Apple stock five years ago, you rode an engine of capital creation that out paced Exxon! In today's environment all technology companies contend with a paranoid regulatory environment blossoming into a police state. Apple bashing should be relegated to the Huffington Post. I thought people here were capitalists! Does Ann Coulter have something after all? She said libertarians are nerds and pussies.

I consider myself aligned

I consider myself aligned with Libertarian philosophy and I disagree with nearly everything WildSatchmo has said. It's a mistake to associate cluelessness with Libertarianism.

My objection isn't cluelessness

it's the tendency to see tyranny everywhere, and conflate the principles that's a unique trait of libertarians. I think you have a different beef with the OP!

I don't see tyranny

I don't see tyranny everywhere because I've had the opportunity to live a life. I know that self-interest is the universal truth of human interactions and that the ability of individuals to negotiate and navigate in this environment varies greatly. Few are good at understanding and maximizing their power as an individual.

Apple is a company with a

Apple is a company with a terrible moral trackrecord in recent years (I used to be a very big fan). I don't have to like Monsanto, Apple, Halliburton, or any of these bastards to be a capitalist.

MS is just as guilty in many ways, but my post wasn't about Microsoft, it was about the sacred cow that can do no wrong and is guided by laser firing angels and so we cannot even consider they might be worthy of a little scrutiny, and guess what? Apple copies just like they do, and sometimes a lot more http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/apple-copies-a-bunch-of-f...

I enjoyed the irony of you calling me a pussy.... indirectly by quoting Ann Coulter. Might want to rethink what should be relegated to huffpo.

- Grow Mushrooms at Home

You're not giving them

"a little scrutiny", your title says the company is anti-liberty in every way. That's pretty ridiculous. You complain people who like the company are blind followers, but your style of argument is a mirror of the "fanboy" strawman you're using. A list of reasonable objections to the way they do business inflates to Apple = Halliburton.

I don't use Safari because you can never quite delete cookies. Boy did they uglify Calendar. I want command line on a iPad. Genius bar is goofy concept. These things, or unpalatable terms for software development, or even the ethical labor problems that come with globalizing manufacture, don't nullify the company's innovations and wildly successful products, that have undeniably transformed the connectivity of earth. Isn't the proclamation of "anti-liberty!" a kind of fundamentalist libertarianism?




this (among other things) is a downside of the free market. Companies are free to be competitive no matter how anti-liberty they get. I know it's bad!!

Jury Nullification is a power of the last resort against tyranny.

Apple competes by using state granted IP monopolies.

They bring about incredulous law suits that get thrown out of court in just about every other nation but the U.S...

They put so so little into R&D compared to other companies such as Samsung and Sony, ironically it's they who are the leaches.

From what I've seen, Apple

From what I've seen, Apple puts less into R&D (as a percentage of expenditures) because they are making much more money than their so-called competition. They obviously know what they are doing because they can't even keep up with demand. Have you actually sat down and used a Microsoft Surface compared to an iPad? Have you compared a Windows 8 or Samsung Android phone to an iPhone? Really?

Personal Computer market all over again

Currently Apple shares somewhere in the range of about 10% (or less) of the Personal Computer (PC) market. This happened largely because the same Apple, was intent on making their hardware/software products, and many of the same reasons you already posted.

Sure, iPhone/iPad has enjoyed great success, but the smartphone/tablet market will essentially copy what we have seen in the PC market in the past. It is no wonder that one (1) Android smartphone manufacturer (Samsung Galaxy S III) has already surpassed all of iPhone sales.

Given time, we'll see more manufacturers, developers, and consumers follow the anti-Apple route; simply because their authoritarian control will drive talent and consumers away.

I just hope that Google/Android does not follow down the road of Microsoft/Windows, and remains more true to it's Linux and Free/Libre Open Source roots.

More logical fallacies.

More logical fallacies. Android "outsells" iOS, yet the vast majority of profits are made by Apple, not Samsung.

Developers flock to iOS and the Apple App Store because they have discovered they can actually make a living selling their apps to hundreds of millions of potential customers, unlike on Android where customers refuse to pay for apps. This is a fact.

Google bought Motorola as a preemptive move for patent protection from Apple and to get into the phone and tablet hardware business because they felt Samsung and other Android device makers were producing cheap junk and were loading their stock Android software (which is a pale imitation of iOS in terms of usability and performance) with crapware. Android has been forked by Samsung, Amazon, Barnes & Noble and others in an attempt to sell their own apps directly to consumers and to modify the UI to make their products look different. All of this splintering has resulted in a tiny fraction of Android phone owners being able to upgrade their software compared to the majority of iPhone owners now running iOS 6.

Clearly the minor trade offs regarding "customization" are considered unimportant to users. Android is the cheap "smartphone", whereas iOS is the one that works.

Avoid Chinese made products

No brainer. I understand that a device made elsewhere may utilize Chinese made parts. But the profit on that is most likely less than the product itself.

If you cannot locate a product made elsewhere, one can always improvise or buy an older used one.

I just bought a new hammer made in USA, can you imagine that lol

It would be interesting to know what percentage of Chinese parts are on new American automobiles. I heard Cadillacs and Land Rovers will be made in China? :P


You seem like a fanboy

These points are all really silly. It's pretty clear that you are just involved in the whole sensationalism surrounding Apple and have taken sides against them. It's fine, I don't really care what platform you use. To say that one is anti-liberty is in itself, very, VERY anti-liberty. It is a computer platform. A product (superior in many ways). It's capitalist, not anti-liberty.

1. Apple is a "bully"? All you're doing here is speculating to their motives, this is not a specific or well defined anti-liberty stance, it is you trying to interpret their motives based on actions that have both pros and cons for users. They don't care if you use their stock apps. They allow for all sorts of apps and the crap about how picky they are is BS, you should see some of the crap they let through. Not to mention this is for iOS, and there are many benefits to having an approval process for iOS (not Mac OS, in which the core OS components are actually far, far better exposed than in Windows), not the least of which being application stability. This is one of the major reasons why I prefer iOS to Android. But I'm also glad there is a choice out there, I don't go looking for reasons to bash on the system I don't prefer -_-

2. Again you're going into motive here, but you're also being completely biased and unfair because this is a move nearly every electronics and vehicle manufacturer is moving towards. There are certainly benefits to being able to remotely disable your OWN camera. There is no reason not to develop the technology though I agree it will probably be used for evil.

3. No, proprietary connectivity is not immoral, it's a way to make money, not necessarily a practice I agree with, but perfectly acceptable in a capitalist society. Your points sound more and more like YOU are the one who is anti-liberty.

4. Intellectual property absolutely exists. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of man-hours developing it. Why, exactly, should this be fair game for anyone to completely copy or outright steal? You claim Apple is anti-liberty yet you advocate blatant property theft and claim that just because it exists in a digital space it isn't real. The thing is this is how the law works and regardless of whether you agree with it (and you should, you're just not actually realizing the full effects of no intellectual property) that is how the legal system works and if you don't protect your own IP you get screwed. Apple defends their patents like every other company, they're just watched closer by sensationalists who have a vendetta against Apple.

5. This is a really ironic accusation. This is one of the major reasons why people prefer Apple. They do NOT bundle extra crap in everything. Their software is generally quite clean and runs well. The Windows version comes with a process to check for updates and a process to run music with the window closed. It's part of the functionality of what you downloaded. Don't talk about this if you don't know what you're talking about. Bottom line there is absolutely no contest between Mac OS and Windows platforms, Windows comes with spyware and bundled "junk" all the time. You can't accuse OS X of this, if it offends at all it is in a capacity much, much, MUCH less severe than is the complete and total standard on the Windows platform.

6. Yes, they outsource the work because the environment here is not such that it is profitable to build things locally. This is a problem with our government, not with Apple. Apple has a right to hire overseas in order to maximize their profits. Of course they are going to. The problem is there shouldn't be an incentive to do that, but we continue to make even more incentives for it and then get mad at the capitalists instead of fixing the broken system.

7. This is bullshit, they just get a ton of bad press, if you look into it, Apple's factories have a lower suicide rate than the average. It is literally a case of media zoning in on one aspect of something and completely ignoring the fact that it's a completely normal thing, there is absolutely no connection to Apple, there is just a high suicide rate in Chinese factories. It's horrible, don't get me wrong, but Apple has a well-documented history of caring more about this than other companies, they always inspect the factories and such. Granted, they could do more, but again, you are just picking and choosing what to pay attention to. Every electronics company is guilty here not to mention every world leader who does nothing about it.

8. Allegations that were never proven, and yet again, nothing even remotely unique to Apple. This is actually an incredibly stupid accusation when you think about it. Apple has very high pricing. They don't price fix. Even if they did... I can't agree with, but also can't completely boycott a product over it unless I want to go completely without a computer (rather difficult in my line of work). But again, these are allegations, and you are basically just guessing at their motives (which has been the case with every point you made).

9. How would you like it if you worked for 20 years to refine a product, someone took that product without paying you ONE RED CENT, copied it, made their own modifications to it which you weren't really fond of, and then distributed it under your name using all of your branding? Are you kidding me? You don't believe in liberty in the slightest, if you don't believe in Apple's right to defend their own property. Oh right, you don't see it as "property" if you can't touch it. *sigh*

I will just end by saying I couldn't care less about a company's motives. I buy a superior product. That is how the system is supposed to work. If there isn't an incentive to make a good product it's because of broken capitalism, you can't hate the player who is just doing what they gotta do. And the major, major thing here is you are being caught up in sensationalism from the media to bash on a company that when you get right down to it, acts just like all the others.

You're being very, very selective in what you are bashing Apple for. All of these things are pretty rampant in the industry, and I see you are using a computer, so that guarantees beyond a shadow of a doubt that despite raging against Apple, you support companies with the vast majority of identical problems. Because it's not a problem with the companies, people will always act in their own best interests. The problem is with the system not incentivizing good best interests.

Ok, no matter what you think

Ok, no matter what you think of Apple, don't act like iTunes is good on Windows. It's Apple's cruel joke on Windows users. You need an i7 to run Bonjour. It uses more CPU than a fricken encryption algo.

My take is, I don't like iPhones because they're too small. I don't like Macs because they're too expensive. I mean, you should see how well Windows runs on $2k-3k hardware. It's not really apples to apples here to act like OSX is so great. You can't even get one with less than an i7.

And also... my dad's factory has 0 suicide rate. lol

iTunes on Windows is actually

iTunes on Windows is actually incredible, all the people I know switched to it and I use it now. The old iTunes for Windows was admittedly bloated and terrible, everyone knew that. But the new one was rewritten from the ground up and is hands-down the best music player I've ever used. It's fine if you still don't like it, but don't go around saying "don't pretend it's good". It is good...really good. A ton of people love it.

As far as not liking things because they're too small/too expensive/whatever, that's TOTALLY your prerogative. I support your right to use non-Apple products! But it doesn't mean Apple is anti-liberty, it's anti-liberty to expect everyone to use a certain system just because of your own preferences.

To address your direct point however, you cannot find an equivelent Windows machine for the price of an iMac. It is currently one of the most well-rounded machines available, and it is extremely cost effective if you need that much power. It is a long-debunked myth that Macs are overpriced. The price of an iMac is almost halfway covered by the monitor alone, which costs a minimum of $850 for a monitor that is almost as good (and technically is the best specced monitor on the market, completely unmatched in the PC world).

However, it is entirely true that Mac does not have a "low end", it is also true that Apple charges absurd prices for add-on components (hence why I go elsewhere for those).

Ok, it's true that my low

Ok, it's true that my low opinion of Apple doesn't make them anti-liberty. I do find it highly ironic though that hipsters and leftists love Apple... the world's largest corporation who uses outsourced suicidal labor.

And they do restrict development... they reject apps and you have to pay them upfront to even develop them.. and when you do code, it has to be on a mac.

No, your ignorance of how the

No, your ignorance of how the App store works is astounding. It is entirely optional, you can download apps for Mac just like for Windows. There is nothing stopping anyone from developing on a PC! You are just wrong on all counts, and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.