7 votes

Circumventing Currency Usage, Am I Crazy Seriously

Ok this has to do with using different currency for business.

Wouldn't it be smarter to use Silver Eagle Dollars for business than paper money?

A Silver Eagle Dollar is worth about 28 dollars right now. But if you use is at the store they will only accept is as 1.00 dollar.

So her is my example:

You have a business and you do business cards. You charge 250.00 Dollars for you service. You take a picture organize the slogan and business logo, bada bing, bada boom 250.00 US dollars each time. Lets say you do 300 clients a year and get taxed at 25percent.

Well lets say you do 300 clients a year, at $250.00 a piece for the business cards, that is $75,000.00 in profit.

Well lest say you get taxed at 25percent $75,000.00 x 25% = 18,750.00 in taxes;(

Well lets say you were to take your payment in Silver Eagle Coins which have a face value of $1.00 but technically are worth $28.00 because of the silver that is in them. You could earn less with actually earning the same amount on the books.

Here it goes. Same business card thing.

Lets say you do 300 clients in one year at $9.00 but you take Silver Eagle rounds. You will have made $2,700.00 for the books that can be taxed.

Well $2,700.00 x 25% or .25 = $675.00 for taxes

Why wouldnt people who do business on a regular basis with each other use this method of transactions.

You are still being honest on the books. Who can tell you what your service is worth? Does this make any sense? You have to make sense to make cents:)

here is my video talking about this for clarification

http://youtu.be/O1dHr1kvV_U




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Circumvent by...

Using Bitcoin

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Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine

Regarding that Robert Kahre

Regarding that Robert Kahre story. It should be noted the court had no problem with accepting those same US coins at legal tender value for payment of fees. It is impossible to be more blatantly hypocritical than taking the coins at face value and at the same time prosecuting someone for paying other people in US coins at non-legal tender value.

And the reason American people haven't secured the release of all political prisoners of victimless so called crime is?

Ever heard of

AOCS?

I also, for fun, have reproduction union currenc

$1 BANK OF SOTO - nebraska
$1 MERCHATS BANK - NEW YORK
$5 BARBER BANK - NEW JERSEY
$1 LINCOLN COUNTY BANK - MAINE
$5 NORTH WESTERN BANK - PENNSYLVANIA
$2 STANFORD BANK - MAINE
$5 ALLEGHANY NATIONAL BANK - MARYLAND
$1 BANK OF QUINCY - ILLINOIS
$1.50 FARMERS AND MERCHANTS BANK - NO STATE I CAN MAKE OUT - oh d.c.
$1 MONTGOMERY COUNTY - PENNSYLVANIA
$5 NEW UPSWICH BANK - NEW HAMPSHIRE
$5 THE CHESTER BANK - NEW YORK

Still need confederate money - those are in my collection are all Union, and there are way more.

But fun to play 1863 or 1864 cards with. I need to make copies to play cards with friends. There are tons more fractional notes and such I need copies of for cards too.

Of course you can't use them as legal tender but it's still fun.

I'm all for competing currencies (such a misnomer in this case) and I do use silver to buy some stuff. But I would consult a lawyer and also look into the lakota free bank. You need to maintain at least 20 oz there. They will take 1 oz every month unless you keep stacking.

And from what I understand, if you loan them silver, you will get a good return over 6-18 mos. From what I gather they are loan sharks.

I believe AOCS is run by the same folks as the liberty dollar but I may be wrong. In any case 1 oz silver for $45 is not such a great investment just to barter.

Here's the answer we might be looking for...

I can't believe I haven't seen this video on the DP before!

http://youtu.be/TwmM5Nb6hiE?t=49m28s

I guess when RP used to say competing currencies, this never really came to mind.

I'm a serial entrepreneur and liberty activist from Texas!

www.RevolutionCarBadges.com
www.NonNetwork.com

Cash transactions...

Wouldn't hurt to use gold/silver in place of cash during "off the books" & personal transactions. ;-)

Won't Work

because the game is rigged against you. Nice idea though. Trouble is that it would require a revolution with large amounts of the population standing up and they are too dumbed down to ever do that. Better come up with a better plan.

skippy

your idea makes sense, but

your idea makes sense, but you will go to prison for it :-).

Not Necessarily...

... if other business' are allowed to except silver dollars as one dollar, the government would have to pass a law that those are NOT tender for them to get the person doing this into trouble.

We need to get an early start on 2016: Support Rand PAC 2016

www.randpac2016.com

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if it makes sense, then it is

if it makes sense, then it is probably illegal. competing currencies IS the downfall of the fed, therefore, look for them to be outlawed for the time being.

Better ?

Who would pay $250 for someone to design a biz card?

Logo Included?

If you wanted a fancy new logo and some corporate branding stuff, that's cheap! Plain text = FREE! I'd make $20 on the printing.

The Verdict

A federal jury found Las Vegas businessman Robert Kahre and three others guilty Friday of several felony tax crimes, including conspiracy to defraud the IRS, tax evasion and hiding assests.

Robert D. Kahre and his sister, Lori A. Kahre, each were convicted of intentionally and knowingly conspiring to defraud the federal government, U.S. Attorney Greg Brower of Nevada said.

The indictments alleged that from 1998 through 2003 Kahre paid his employees and employees of other businesses with whom he contracted in gold, silver or cash from an office at 6270 Kimberly Ave.

Robert Kahre faces up to 296 years in prison and fines of up to $14 million, Brower said. Lore Kahre faces up to 71 years in prison and fines of up to $2.75 million.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug/14/jury-convicts-bu...

Sentenced to 15+ years plus 16 million

Robert Kahre was sentenced to 15 years, 10 months plus three years supervised release. He was ordered to pay $16 million in fines to the IRS. His sister got six years.

You may try it if you like, but understand, the IRS already knows about this and they will put you in prison for a very long time if they catch you.

Wow! Thanks for the info

This should be its own post.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
-Benjamin Franklin

Defraud The Government

That's rich hahahaha. Talk about contradiction in itself! Oxymoron, Uhhhh, the pot calling the kettle black, okay, okay, I'll shut up.

skippy

IRS considers it fraud

If caught cheating the house in the Fed-operated IRS casino, penalties include fines and/or jail time.

I always thought taxpayers should be able to deduct annual inflation on their federal income tax forms.
No such deduction available.
It certainly is hard to win at a rigged game.

Neither is losing in this

Neither is losing in this game easy...

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

This is excellent!

I see no problem with it. Don't let FEAR of the IRS or the criminals running this country stop you from using your idea.

Just DO it!

why do you think the feds crucified von Nothaus

Because they feared exactly this scenario.

Try it. But be prepared for the 2am knock.

People have done this...

...and gotten in trouble for it.

As your client, assuming that

As your client, assuming that I want these cards for a business and I will therefore want a receipt for my taxes...I will want a receipt that reflects the price I paid for silver, not a receipt for $9. UNLESS, you offer me a reduced rate that will benefit me not to use it as a deduction on my taxes.

And then, so long as you send each of those silver dollars as $1, you fine and you won't have any problem with the IRS. But if you go and sell those coins for their silver value, and do not report the capital gains, you'll have a problem if they discover you. Its tax evasion, and ultimately comes down to whether or not you can get away with it.

A similar "scheme" has already been tried by a man in Nevada who was paying his workers in gold eagles at face value. When I say tried, I mean the it has gone to court. The IRS does not read the face value, they read the market value of the metal. Its no different then paying with a Van Gogh or a cow. The IRS sees it as barter and insist that a true market value be reported. Look up barter in the IRS literature for more info...

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

His mistake

As I recall, his mistake was buying back the coins from the employees for FRNs.

IRS tried him twice in a double jeapardy trial.

After failing in the first case, they tried him again for the same damn thing with slightly different trumped up charges.

Your analogy is incorrect. A Van Gogh or a cow is not legal tender in this country. You are missing the point.

The fundamental question asked - "is it tax evasion to use legal tender as legal tender?"

And if it is not, then doesn't that make it illegal tender?

Gold is neither legal tender

Gold is neither legal tender in this country. Per government decree only FRN's are legal tender. You can argue this here all you want, but in the court of law it doesn't matter what your arguments are.

Additionally, gold and silver eagle ARE legal tender, but ONLY at face value. But do you believe that the gold coins that were used to pay his workers only cost him $50 each or only were bartered for the equivalent of $50 in goods/services?

These coins came from the US Mint. Someone somewhere along the way paid several hundred dollars apiece for them, and then someone somewhere along the way report them at face value to the IRS.

You can read about the case by searching Robert Kahre vs. the IRS. He was convicted of other violations of the "Code", along with the people that worked for him and his tax consultant for tax evasion.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

you are devoid of thought

first you say gold is not legal tender, then you say it is.

then you pretend to school me on the case by pretending I must not know the name of it.

finally, you cite a conviction as proof of wrong-doing

?????

Its brilliant but

you would need all shops should actually be 'clubs' otherwise legal tender laws would force you to sell your goods at the fiat dollar price. SO people become a member of a club probably for a hefty fee or perhaps a ritual to prevent people trying to 'rob' your store with fiat dollars. Once you are in the club you can price everything in dollars tied to the silver value. The captial gains taxes will motivate people to keep their money in the system-- if they try and cash out to fiat dollars there will be a 15% tax. The biggest problem is capital gains tax would also penalize the store owner when he tried to acquire inventory outside the system. The 15% capital gains tax may make prices uncompetitive. Barter would put him at risk of income tax audit (using the silver value to barter for goods would be risky). It could work for some limited kinds of products though. Dont know which. Although it may be a way for a person to be taxed at 15% of his income instead of the prevailing income tax rate. So it could work as a way pay capital gains instead of income tax.

I think the catch is...

...that, due to legal tender laws, you have to pay capital gains tax on the appreciation on the silver. However, I'm not 100% sure if you pay when you acquire the silver or when you spend it. I think it's the former (you pay when you acquire it) though.

I dont think so-- this can work!

You pay capital gains tax when you have a capital gain-- when you sell the coin for its silver value. If you use the silver as legal tender and never cash out on the legal tender value then you are cool.

It makes perfect sense to me.

It makes perfect sense to me.

phxarcher87's picture

I am starting my business

and i hope i can use this method to attain profit better the first couple years would be nice if we used get people to make this easier.

n psychology, cognitive dissonance is the excessive mental stress and discomfort[1] experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time.