10 votes

When Ron Endorses Rand in 2016?

What happens when Ron endorses Rand in 2016? (And don't say he won't). Will that make Ron a sellout? Will there be dozens of threads about how Ron has fallen?

Doesn't matter what forum you follow, it always boils down to a bunch of juvenile ranting. Gets so annoying to see all the crap about Rand.



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Ugh....this stupid argument

Ugh....this stupid argument again.

The Rand Rift

..and how to divide the liberty movement.

Our influence in 2012 was a result of our ability to place our faith in Ron Paul, his 30 year voting record and principled leadership. We were a force of our own convictions empowered by a heroic figure. We fought for LIBERTY but we also fought for Ron Paul and did so willingly because believing in him was easy. Like it or not we need a leader, without one we are flailing, dying movement....with one we are still a purposeful force.

Rand Paul is not Ron Paul but nobody will ever be. If Ron Paul endorses his son is that not enough? Of course it is. Don't allow the trolls to divide us. Stay on course, stay together and keep focused. Let's get Rand nominated in 2016

Rand will be more libertarian than Bob Barr!

That is for sure!

it sounds great

President Rand Paul.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Neocon-for-life makes one

Neocon-for-life makes one decent vote: Gets tons of praise from "liberty" community.
Libertarian-for-life makes one questionable vote (or not even vote, just endorsement, or says the wrong thing): Gets dumped on by "liberty" community.

Apparently politicians are defined by the thing they do least. Means we've got a solid pro-liberty government right now.

Excellent

Excellent Question...

Apparently the Rand haters will never come around. This is why libertarians can't even compete in a national election. They are absolutists and will never appreciate the nuanced game Rand is playing.

Wrong...

There are few 'absolutists', or 'purists' around.

The issue is that too few actually will demand and support only those who measure up to the yardstick of Liberty and the Constitution.

In droves, those in the purported liberty-movement will trumpet the likes of Rand, Kucinnich, some guy who gives one speech, someone other guy or gal who says something palatable, and others of their ilk.

This indicates something about the droves of individuals who fail in the test of actually having rock-solid liberty principles.

As to Lil' Rand, yeah, yeah, its all be vomited out before...he is 'guessed' and 'hoped' by many to be playing some high-level game of three-dimensional chess...a game that the stupid 'absolutists' and stupid 'purists' simply cannot grasp.

He will supposedly, at some point when he has totally sucked in and utterly fooled the entire globalist-collectivist establishment, suddenly unmask and become...'Super Rand, Holy Liberty Warrior'.

Hell, I bet he has him a snazzy set of red-white & blue girlish tights with a great big emblem on the front with "SRHLW" emblazoned on it.

Rand 'Clark-Kent' Paul, ready to spring into action and assume hero-status to thwart the machinations of the evil globalist-collectivists........hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so what? Ron is not perfect.

so what? Ron is not perfect.

It seems pretty clear that

It seems pretty clear that Rand's vote to confirm Hagel for Secretary of Defense did absolutely nothing to get him more support here, and there's nothing he could possibly do to win some people over. He's getting absolutely hammered on free republic and Facebook for that vote, so it just seems like a stupid vote. Rand made the rank and file Republicans mad and can't win over the people here no matter what he does.

i disagree

he's been given credit here by people who are not supporters, & regardless of how he came to that decision. did he call his dad?
but a lot of liberty folks view him with trepidation or caution since he is a regular politician, and who knows what those guys will do next.

The problem would be if Ron endorsed

Rubio instead of his son.

Not that that would happen but it is the approximate equivalent of Rand endorsing Romney. I thought that was sick and you'll never convince me otherwise. What about conservative FAMILY values? What did he sell his father out for exactly? And why?

Rand won't win the gop nomination, the best he'll get is vp alongside rubio and I honestly doubt he'll even get that.

I like Rand. He is what he is and that's a politician. Ron is a statesman.

No.7's picture

You obviously didn't get Ron's email on June 7th did you?

Ron told us all in an email and a private youtube video that was shared here somewhere that he would not be able to have enough delegates to win the nomination from Romney. That night Rand endorsed Romney on Hannity.

Rand did the right thing. You don't guard your own teammate on the basketball court just because he beat you out for team captain, and you don't try to hurt the party nominee because the guy you voted for didn't win. Your expected to vote for the party so the party will vote for you.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

"Expected"

"Your expected to vote for the party so the party will vote for you."

Yep, that's what's expected all right.

A. Continue to perpetuate what many of us oppose.

B. Be part of the r3VOLution/solution, be the shining example, educate and urge others to do the same.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

No.7's picture

Is it really that black and white for you?

Rand Paul is our shining example of how to pursue the cause of liberty within mainstream politics. I urge you do follow Rand Paul and Ron Paul's advice to become active in the GOP.

"certainly it is important learning from our mistakes in learning from what we do right and learning from those who have been involved in the political arena on how to sell the libertarian message to get average america to endorse what we believe in. It's great to be philosophic and right all the time, yet if we don't do more work to present our views in a way it it's palatable to the american public and not offensive then really the views won't amount to much because it will be held by a narrow group. So I've dedicated a lot of my time and energy over the last couple decades to trying to take a libertarian views in PR making them so that the average person accepts them without thinking that they're accepting anything unusual. - Ron Paul"

Listen to this speech:

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

OldNo.7J.D.

Tell me, OldNo.7J.D., what are YOU doing [specifics, please], other than to post words of grey on this site? For all I know, you may very well be involved deep in the trenches. Or you may not.

You 'urge' me? Don't even try to assume that I am not or have not been involved, unless your goal is to be some kind of comedian.

I will say this: The only axe that you would have to grind with me is one of an ulterior motive. Is it to outpace me? Or is it to outpace the message? Or both.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

No.7's picture

ProudAmericanFirst: I'm waking up, what were you doing at 22?

What am I doing? I'm learning. I've started going to GOP,County Commission, and City Council meetings, meeting people, understanding local political protocol & propriety, emailing my Representatives, reading a lot, investing in PM's, and trying like hell to educate my family as to what is happening to dollars.

I'm waking up. What were you doing when you were 22?

You said my only options were to either "perpetuate what the movement opposes or join the solution". I think I am a part of the solution but you seem to want to rule me ineligible or something because I don't pass your purity test. I showed you that Ron Paul is urging us all to do what Rand Paul is doing which is bring liberty to the mainstream... Is Ron Paul not a part of the solution/revolution???

The only "axe I have to grind with you" is that you keep telling me over and over that I'm not a part of the movement. Not only to me but to others as well. You tell us that we are hurting the movement or walking the wrong path. I'm sick of trolls like you telling me and others that we aren't good enough for the movement. This movement is for everyone who wants freedom and that's damn near everyone.

As the good Dr. said "yet if we don't do more work to present our views in a way it it's palatable to the american public and not offensive then really the views won't amount to much because it will be held by a narrow group"

Your narrow group is widening and you can't stop it no matter how many of us you criticize. Get over it and please quit being an @-hole.

Peace.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

[[ OldNo.7J.D. ]]

"I'm waking up, what were you doing at 22?"

That is a very good step. At that age I was working and going to college full time. I didn't know or care to know the difference between a delegate and a ballot sheet. I was out on my own and having fun.

"Get over it and please quit being an @-hole."

The next step is for you to watch that mouth of yours and have at least a little respect for others. Disagreements are fine, but resorting to personal attacks/name calling will get you nowhere [unless you are me and know how to get away with it ;-) ].

"you keep telling me over and over that I'm not a part of the movement."

I have never stated that you are not part of the movement. I have, however, stated that your interpretation of 'the message' may or may not be the wisest move [of course, I could be wrong]. You have a strong tendency to put words into my mouth [and I WILL call you out]. It is YOU who states that I am not part of the movement. But hey, if it makes you feel superior.. I am more than confident that when it comes to puting ones frn's where their mouth is, you would not stand a chance against me. Time could possibly cure that.

"As the good Dr. said "yet if we don't do more work to present our views.."

And this is where you and I part. My and others views: I oppose sanctions where none are in order. I oppose feinstein-lee, which Justin *warned* about, while Rand pushed it like American apple pie. Chess, as you claim, or like to play.. Maybe, but at the expense of NOT explaining or telling the American people the truth. The people are STILL confused and continue to believe that we should still meddle into the affairs of other nations. I oppose that, along with the economics of such possible actions and the potential cost of human lives. The American people have learned NOTHING, other than those who took the time to listen to Ron, Justin, and me.

OldNo.7J.D., what you must understand is that I am NOT a Republican. I am a Conservative L[l]ibertarian. And to me, the fact that the Establishment party lost is an example of Ron Paul's message and steadfastness which continues to grow. Once [we] start compromising, all that he and I have worked for will be forgotten [as per the lazy and short-term memory of many Americans]. The other thing that you must realize is that because I am a Conservative L[l]ibertarian, demanding that I get on some bus, get with the program, or in your words 'get over it', has no meaning to me, for I will do exactly what I must.

You are young and naive and have little respect. But you are also verging on intelligence, energetic and the future. The key to success and how I still learn to this day is to listen more than I talk, and always question from within. I would suggest, from life-long experience, that you do the same. Winning or losing makes no difference, if it is for the wrong reason(s).

Lastly, don't you worry about who I support. I didn't need you in 2012, and I certainly don't need you for 2016. Let Rand do what he does, and I will determine based upon his record then. What you CAN do is hold his and ALL other politicians feet to the fire, while explaining to people who you are contact with the truth about specifics. THAT is how we win.

Black and white..? Gray is what got us into this stinking mess in the first place. Think about that.

Peace.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

No.7's picture

ProudAmericanFirst: We're not so different you and I

I currently work full time and go to college :-), I do what I can to be active with my spare time. I am a neophyte in this thing but I believe this was the road chosen for me. I believe this is why I was born and why I am where I am today. I may be disrespectful on the internet with a pseudonym but I assure you I'm much more pleasant in the real world.

I disagree that people learn nothing when you compromise to their position. I've had a very different experience with compromise. When I'm dropping truth bombs I am much more effective when I find common ground, ignore my stubbornness, and compromise ideas when sharing them. It's when I refuse to compromise small irrelevant points that people roll their eyes and refuse to hear anything I say. Maybe it's demographics, maybe it's personal differences, idk but I couldn't disagree with you more on that one.

I don't agree with 90% of what the Government does mainly because the Constitution says no. I oppose the income tax and think the 16th Amendment is unconstitutional but I still pay taxes. I like that you don't want to back down but can't you see that you're already compromising your principles by participating in a corrupt system? You've already compromised your principles, no I do not have the answer to how we can stop compromising our principles but I would love to work with you to figure it out.

I'm working to integrate Libertarian principles into mainstream conservative conversation in order to help me spread the message to ears that don't really care what I have to say. I feel that if I do as you say and go in guns blazing refusing to back down that my credibility with local conservatives will be destroyed and I'll never be able to teach them anything because they will never listen to me. This is why I compromise the message and hold back when you say I shouldn't. That's just how it works in Tennessee, without compromise I won't be able to take the message anywhere important. Compromise is necessary in my neck of the woods, I hope you can understand that.

I also would like to point out that this movement wouldn't even exist had Ron Paul not compromised his principles coming back to the Republican Party. Ron Paul believes deeply in conspiracies but he tones it down in the spotlight. Ron plays chess too, Rand is just better at it.

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. - Andrew Jackson

OldNo.7J.D.

Nothing is black and white, and I do understand where you are coming from. Whether you compromise or not, you are quite determined. As I have learned today, not enough are determined, and I know that in the end, that is what it takes. Like Granger and me, you and I have different approaches, one is not better than the other.

I was very proud of Rand today, and though not set in stone, I may possibly decide to support him :-)

Keep up the good the good fight, OldNo.7J.D., and thanks for being persistant. Like I said before, I expect you to keep me on my toes, as I will keep you on yours :-)

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Anyone who lies like that

Anyone who lies like that should really be banned from this site. I mean that. Quit lying. Rand made a formal endorsement of Ron and even appeared in advertisements for Ron in Iowa and New Hampshire. He went door to door for Ron in Iowa and New Hampshire to help Ron win the GOP nomination. He did everything he could for Ron, and at the time that Rand endorsed Romney, Ron had no chance at all to win the GOP nomination. None. Romney had won enough delegates to win the GOP nomination by then. There was no chance at all he wouldn't win.

Your dad is running in the village marathon

and the winner goes onto the state final.

Do you:

a) cheer on your dad until the end despite it being obvious, quite early on, he's not going to win.
b) cheer him on at the start then once it's obvious he's not going to win start cheering for the ultimate winner.

in either case you congratulate the winner and cheer them on at the state finals.

Why couldn't Rand wait until the race was run?

Are you sure you're name shouldn't be The Real Communist as you seem to want to ban my free speech and brand me a liar?

"Why couldn't Rand wait until

"Why couldn't Rand wait until the race was run?"

He didn't want to wait until Romney officially won the GOP nomination to endorse him, because he wanted to have a chance to speak at the GOP convention. Do you not realize that having a liberty candidate speak at the GOP convention was the biggest moment the liberty movement has ever had?

should've been Ron at the convention

.

----

You and I disagree on many things. GRRRRRRRR.

But this makes perfect sense.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

You are 100% correct

except for one thing. Romney DID NOT Win delegates, they were stolen!

Well, I'll believe..

I'll believe it when I see it. If he does, I'll attribute it to Alzheimer's and go on with my life.

Are we supposed to support

Are we supposed to support Rand simply because he's Ron's son?

"don't say he won't"

He wont.

Now that I got that out of the way, we have just as much indication from Ron that he wants to run just as Rand, and to be quite honest I prefer Ron a ways over Rand at this point.

Ron Paul 2016

Was this thread created just

Was this thread created just to start drama? What's the point of this thread? If Rand runs as a Libertarian I'll consider him.

I personally would feel relief

I guess what that says about me is that I want a leader and that I would also feel more confident having direction to travel the next 4 years. However, if Rand went off the deep end, well, then, that would be the end of that.