16 votes

Would you believe the God of the Bible if you knew the Bible were true?

Although I don't think this thread should be relegated to 'weird stuff', It's probably where it will end up. So, I've done it myself. :)

On to the question, though. I've heard many people say things like, "Well, if God is like THAT, then I don't want to worship Him anyway." My assertion is that a statement like this proves that one is not interested in truth, but only in what he/she would like to believe is truth.

Since I was a child, I have asked questions about everything. One of my math teachers used to laugh because I would never accept "just because" for an answer. I always had to know why something was the way it was. I despised being lied to about anything, whether it was Santa Claus or sex. I suppose that's why I ended up here.

I can't understand why others stop short of finding out the whys. I'm even more surprised that people in the 'liberty movement', don't want to dig deeper when confronted with uncomfortable ideas.

If you want truth, you will be willing to accept it regardless of how you have to change your life to conform to it. If it means that you cannot be a sodomite, you will change. If it means you cannot send your children to public school, you will change. If it means rejecting previous religious beliefs, you will change. And on and on the list could go.

God says in His Word, that if you seek you will find. But, the fact of the matter is, most people don't want truth very badly. They would rather stay comfortable and hope that what they believe is true. If you make up your mind that you will accept and embrace the truth, even if it is the God of the Bible, then you will find. As long as you say, "I'll accept truth if it is.....", you will never find it.

I made up my mind long ago that even if God WAS a brutal authoritarian, I would serve Him--if He was true. Even if He said things I didn't like, I would worship Him if He was really God. Of course, I found that He loves me and wants the best for me and every other human being. But, to find this, I had to be willing to believe truth whatever I found it to be.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." He was (in the words of C.S. Lewis) either a Liar, a Lunatic, or the Lord Himself.

As many hours as I spend researching and reading, this life is not enough for me to understand--it's so short--a tiny dash between two dates on a tombstone. I want to know where I am going when I die---the "me" that is inside my body. If there is a God who will give me these answers, I want to know.

I have now found and can attest to you that Jesus Christ is TRUTH. He is God Almighty come down to make a way for us to God. But, I cannot desire truth for you--that is something only you can do. So, ask yourself today, "How important is truth to me?" And know this, liberty will never succeed without it.

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Only if it was written by

Only if it was written by God. Man cannot be trusted.

Ron Paul 2016

The Book, The God

For those without the understanding to understand the book, it all seems like a fallacy. Designed on purpose, that a natural man of his own ability alone is without the capability to see whats inside.

I fully understand religion.

I fully understand religion. I was raised baptist,protestant and catholic. I realize the book was written by men not god and those men say they are inspired like pat robertson(puke) I trust the bible as faith but not fact.

Does it mean i do not believe in god? Nope . I take the bible as stories by man written by men and controlled by men and inspired by men with agenda's no different then the gop/dnc establishment. Before we had republicans and dems we had religion controlling establishment. I trust no religion ,no man. I believe God gave me a brain to understand the bible is not gods word but mans.

Ron Paul 2016

Like the Doobs said, "Jesus is just alright with me!"

The Biblical God, however... well, He is an insane Tyrant with multiple personality disorder... a petulant Child who says, in effect, "Love / worship Me or go to Hell!" in the Old Testament, but Who then somehow manages to "father" a loving Son in the New one.

If *that* God is real... He can piss off, and I'll take my chances with Hell. I have NO respect for an Asshole who coerces a man to the point of nearly killing his own son to prove his respect for "The Almighty". (Plus, He dabbled in manipulating the personal affairs of His subjects back in the day, but can come NOT to our rescue now?! Where is the love?! Epic FAIL.)

On the other hand, Jesus, if real, is a Deity I can love, respect, and view as perhaps even one of very the best Examples of humanity. And if He and His story are real, well then I am in the utmost debt. (I do try my best to behave toward others as He would... and am usually humbled / disappointed by how far off the mark my performance actually is....)

What would the Founders do?

Well

Gods game Gods rules, you may not like that but that does not mean you are still not part of the game, and your choices actually do have consequences.

As an atheist with clear bias

I must say there is no such thing as God. There will never be a divine individual with powers beyond imagination; be he a Christian God, Islamic God or any other form of religious God. However besides sounding like a total tool slandering Christianity and all other forms of religion I will say this. I do believe the bible to be a story of fiction created by writers for various Kings, preferably King David of Israel. However I do believe that these story's carry great wisdom and preach education in means of enhancing the spirit, social skills, and the mind of human beings. We should follow the meanings of these stories and live by their morals, not fear an almighty individual that doesn't exist.

I will end by saying if their is an element or force that allows us to be, I believe it to be scientific and to be have created in the event of the big bang.

P.S. Isn't it great that we can live in country's where we can follow whatever religion we choose; and then talk trash about someone else s!

The Problem

The Problem with saying that the Bible is a work of fiction is that the vast majority of scholars disagree with that statement and the vast amount of secular literature corroborates the Bible. Even the greatest critics of the New Testament, such as former Christians like Bart Ehrman, who have written books slandering Christ, still agree that he was an actual historical person who was multiply attested to in both The Bible and Secular Jewish and Roman literature.

please show me a huge list of

please show me a huge list of historians that have documented jesus outside of the bible in jesus times.

Ron Paul 2016

So the

fiction writers went to the trouble of burying archaeological artefacts only to collaborate their stories when dug up thousands of years later.

All enlightened at the first hurdle.

P.S. Isn't it great that we can live in country's founded upon the liberating principles of Christianity where we can call and idiot, an idiot.

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

I totally agree

A little humility never hurts.

I'm glad that the Bible is finally in the "Fantasy Football"

arena of "what if's" rather than in the category of "actual historical truth" -- this allows the conversation to be fantasy/imagination/fun.......Imagine if all books were destroyed and the only ones left (after 100K years of human die-off) are X-men comics and an oppressed group of aliens (slaves of the "superiors") find them and use them as "guides" and "truth?"

How's that for a "what-if"?

If I knew the Bible were true,

I would have no choice but to acknowledge the existence of that God unless I were in denial.

There is not much in the Bible that jives with what we know about the natural world. I use the rational mind God gave me to find out that God is not the God of the Bible, but is something entirely different.

That being said, I have no problem with students learning about different faiths in public school. It allows for a well rounded individual to know about the tenets, cultures, and histories of different religions. I also don't mind other students/faculty doing kind things in the name of their faith such as praying with each other in times of need. As long as the faculty are not evangelizing, why shouldn't it be okay?

If you do not trust teachers to teach children logical morality, why for the sake of convenience would we want them teaching them at all?

I do not see much accountability when I look for it. People just ship their kids off to school without first inspecting. ..but I digress...

-Matthew Good

Everytime I see this

I think.. If I know something is true well then I HAVE to believe in it or.. or I guess I would be lying to myself. True is True

Garnet
Daughter of 1776 American Revolutionists

Seriously...

Why is it that people feel the need to discuss religion on the daily paul.

It is for political topics, I don't care what you believe, but go to religion.com and discuss religion please.

Personally I think religion is a good thing (non religious) because for some people it gives them a set of morals. However religion is what destroyed the Republican party, and continues to keep it split.

So please does this have to be here?

You can't be serious

Or if you are, you shouldn't be taken that way.

Religion and politics have ALWAYS been one. It only 'seems' to you that they are two, because your/my self-appointed Illuminatti masters want us to believe that.

For millenia the Roman Caesars, the Chinese and Japanese emperors, and many/most other kings and queens throughout history have claimed to be Gods.

Read this excerpt from Albert Pike.

---------------------------------------------------------

Albert Pike's letter to Mazzini, dated August 15, 1871:

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."

Albert Pike's letters hoax

Albert Pike's letters hoax google.

Luke 3:38
Isaiah 43:3-5

John 8:44

Your handle is my favorite bible verse, and also an old handle of mine!

I understand there is a lot of disinformation surrounding the letter, but my perspective is if the letter truly is a hoax, then why does it appear NOW that the world is quickly moving towards this 3 world war that we have known about all of these years?

How can we be mirroring the events from Pike's 'prophesy', if it is all a hoax?

Mazzini really was the founder of the Mafia, Pike, and Von Bismark, REALLY WERE the disciples and front men of the illustrious Jesuit priest De Smet, and the fact is the foremost non-Zionist Christian leader in the world today, Texe Marrs, claims it to be true.
http://www.texemarrs.com/032001/amerruss2.htm

Regardless

Separation of Church and State came from French Revolution anti-Catholic Masonic thinking. That is to say that religion and politics are never separate for the Christian (Catholic). Catholicism always used to condemn religious liberalism, "freedom of religion", because "a kingdom divided cannot stand". Therefore, necessarily religion will have to be discussed. I want a Catholic government! Maybe one state in the Union could be Catholic? Free State Project ... Catholic State Project. Or maybe there can be a mass exodus to some country that can turn Catholic.

paulhakel.info
loveGodwithallyourheart.com

"The world has never known more oppressive governments or bigger governments than those which profess the cult of liberty." - Donald Sanborn

Al Pike had so many things right, in a bad way.

However I'd ask you this- Who actually thinks their leaders are gods anywhere in the modern world? The only place I can think of is North Korea. And whatever other places on this earth that that is still true, it can't be too many places. The population has more sense than that, and it didn't take religion for people to achieve this common sense. It also didn't take atheism or even agnosticism for this realization, but this is like the fable of King Canut.

The modern world

The modern world you speak of is only a few decades old...

The Chinese and Japanese believed their emperors to be gods until just the end of WWII.

Mormons, Catholics and Muslims, just to name a few, believe their leaders to be at least demi-Gods.

This population has sense...sure LOL!

Wait for the NWO, then you will happily worship your leaders again, under threat of death!

well, things are a cycle in world history of episodes like this

and that is where the Canut story plays out. People in general have known that their leaders are not literal gods for millenia, but you have periods where tyranny clamps down and people or either killed or born to be brainwashed and then that population will believe it.

Point is, I don't look to religion to solve the issue. Personal faith solves the issue for quite a few people and that's great for them. But I certainly will not subscribe to anyone trying to imply that we all need faith in a god to prevent tyranny. That simply is not the prescription in my book, at least not a blanket prescription to follow.

Tyrrany is the norm

The ONLY exception to people being forced to worship their leaders is this modern world you mentioned.

This modern world is the ONLY anomaly that has ever existed, and it only exists because our founding fathers established a NEW NATION where those 'rules' do not apply.

Our founding fathers were deeply religious people, and until the Albert Pike prophesied softening of religions by the communist Illuminatti NWO, the USA was the most homogenous society in the history of the world, 90% European protestants.

The only place that Freedom and liberty of the kind imagined by Locke, Hume, Jefferson, and the rest of the intellectual influences and founders of America ever existed, ever COULD exist, is in that European, protestant place that this country is quickly morphing away from, which of course is WHY we are morphing away from it.

Sorry I just don't agree with that view of world history.

Although I have much respect (& to varying extents have been influenced by) for the men that you mentioned. The only thing I agree with here is that in ancient recorded times the tyranny cycle was more constant and the brief periods of liberty were very very infrequent. But it's not like faith brought about the world where people don't think of their leaders as gods.

If not faith then what?`

Our founders, deeply religious men, brought about the downfall of the Illuminatti 'golden age', and ushered in this age of reason, without this foundation there is no way we would even be here debating this point, no way the rest of the empires of old would have abandoned their deity claims.

Only because of the Christian notion of 'free will' does the libertarian understanding of freedom even exist.

The thing about freedom is you can believe what you want to believe, but I can try to convince you of the error in your thinking. LOL!

No, the founders were not all

No, the founders were not all deeply religious men. Many were devout atheists.

This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I ever see made. The only person you can ever fool is yourself! Those of us who are not religious know first-hand beyond any shadow of a doubt that conviction and principle exists without religion. So you are just desperately trying to convince yourself and keep others fooled into thinking religion is the source of all things good when there is absolutely no proof, and in fact undeniable proof to the contrary.

I'm bored so I'll play along...

Name the atheist founders.

Washington? no

Adams or Jefferson? no

Madison, or Franklin or Hamilton? nope

You are lying, and Atheism IS also a religion...purely based on faith with not an ounce of reason to support it.

None of the founders were Atheist, not a single one.

you can't really expect this site of all places to prevent

members from posting what they want, but that said, I agree with your sentiment.

On the other hand as a very deep religionist

I once watched, kinda had to sit through really, some dude CONCLUSIVELY PROVE BEYOND ALL SHADOW OF A DOUBT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD....

using the bible as his sole and only source.

At the time I remember maintaining my composure to be the highest priority. Now I see the error of my ways. The proper response would have been to see if, with fast acting, I could have had several dozen banana cream pies delivered and how many I could have hit the speaker with before he departed the stage.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

so

So you're a liberal who attacks rather than debates. What are you doing here?

I am a liberal?

It's been a very long time. But over time I think I have been called everything.

Who attacks rather than debates?

Perhaps. Have you familiarized yourself with my post history?

What am I doing here?

Not sure but I'm doing it right now.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.