16 votes

Would you believe the God of the Bible if you knew the Bible were true?

Although I don't think this thread should be relegated to 'weird stuff', It's probably where it will end up. So, I've done it myself. :)

On to the question, though. I've heard many people say things like, "Well, if God is like THAT, then I don't want to worship Him anyway." My assertion is that a statement like this proves that one is not interested in truth, but only in what he/she would like to believe is truth.

Since I was a child, I have asked questions about everything. One of my math teachers used to laugh because I would never accept "just because" for an answer. I always had to know why something was the way it was. I despised being lied to about anything, whether it was Santa Claus or sex. I suppose that's why I ended up here.

I can't understand why others stop short of finding out the whys. I'm even more surprised that people in the 'liberty movement', don't want to dig deeper when confronted with uncomfortable ideas.

If you want truth, you will be willing to accept it regardless of how you have to change your life to conform to it. If it means that you cannot be a sodomite, you will change. If it means you cannot send your children to public school, you will change. If it means rejecting previous religious beliefs, you will change. And on and on the list could go.

God says in His Word, that if you seek you will find. But, the fact of the matter is, most people don't want truth very badly. They would rather stay comfortable and hope that what they believe is true. If you make up your mind that you will accept and embrace the truth, even if it is the God of the Bible, then you will find. As long as you say, "I'll accept truth if it is.....", you will never find it.

I made up my mind long ago that even if God WAS a brutal authoritarian, I would serve Him--if He was true. Even if He said things I didn't like, I would worship Him if He was really God. Of course, I found that He loves me and wants the best for me and every other human being. But, to find this, I had to be willing to believe truth whatever I found it to be.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." He was (in the words of C.S. Lewis) either a Liar, a Lunatic, or the Lord Himself.

As many hours as I spend researching and reading, this life is not enough for me to understand--it's so short--a tiny dash between two dates on a tombstone. I want to know where I am going when I die---the "me" that is inside my body. If there is a God who will give me these answers, I want to know.

I have now found and can attest to you that Jesus Christ is TRUTH. He is God Almighty come down to make a way for us to God. But, I cannot desire truth for you--that is something only you can do. So, ask yourself today, "How important is truth to me?" And know this, liberty will never succeed without it.

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SteveMT's picture

The killing of babies should be a task reserved for God Himself.

It is irrelevant to say that killing is different than murdering when babies are involved. Those terms are interchangeable when butchering kids. Carrying out "capital punishment" on babies is going to an further extreme to justify wholesale genocide. These people wanted to kill everyone, so they put God's command on it to justify their actions and give it a happy face like lipstick on a pig. Sorry, I don't believe that God would tell Moses to tell His most holy people to butcher babies, but spare 32,000 virgins for further use.


"...task reserved for God himself."
How did you come to the conclusion that God is not allowed to use secondary means to accomplish things?

"irrelevant when babies are involved"
Aside from the fact that their age isn't clearly spelled out in the Bible (we don't know if babies are actually being spoken of), How is the distinction between murder and killing made irrelevant when babies are involved? All that is required to disprove that statement is one example of where the distinction matters with regards to babies. If a lady is pregnant with 4 babies and due to complications one of the babies would have to die to save the lives of the other 3 babies and the mother, then taking the life of the baby to save the lives of 4 people would be the good choice in the moral dilemma, and would not be considered murder. If other lives were not in danger, then taking the life of that baby would be murder. So regardless of whether or not the bible is good or bad, your statement about the irrelevance of the distinction in light of babies is false. the distinction can exist with babies, and when an all knowing, good God comes to the conclusion that he want's to take back the life early, which he only lent out temporarily anyways, I can trust that God has good reasons for doing so. To accuse him of evil without knowing his mind and motives is very judgmental and unjustified for a finite created being with limited understanding.

"These people wanted to kill everyone, so they put God's command on it to justify their actions "
That is not what the text says, you are bringing your own ideas into it rather than extracting the meaning from the text. My question is do you assume that statement before you consider the text of the Bible, or did you come to that conclusion from reading the text? if you came to that conclusion from reading the text, how did you do it?

There is no mention of "babies" commanded to be butchered. Why slander the Bible in such a way? And why apply so much spin? why don't you just assess it in an honest way? Assessing things in a charitable way is the best way to understand them.


GOD is just. That time everyone is full of sin. They don't even have The HOLY Spirit in them.

Is it pride?

Or is it him knowing deep down that there are some really ugly morals within the bible that he cannot ascribe to regardless if some supreme being said bad was good. My God has no knowledge of the future or good and bad, no ability to stop attrocities, and has never written a book. My God is all of us, everything, good and bad. God just is. My God is not the God of the bible, but of existence itself. This is the only God I have witnessed. All other Gods, in my opinion, are created by man trying to grasp the full idea of God. God cannot be grasped. God is.

-Matthew Good


is a crummy and shaky god.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

Is That

all you have to say? How about an explanation. The God of the Bible, in my opinion, is hot headed, petulant, inconsistent, jealous, and power hungry. Yes, all of these traits lie within the OT, but they still are his traits. If a God would send a good person who didn't believe in him to hell, I call that cowardly.

-Matthew Good


"If a God would send a good person who didn't believe in him to hell, I call that cowardly."

The fact is, God only sends people to hell because of their sin. When someone doesn't believe God, they just reject the pardon he offers, and have to end up paying for all of the sins they've willfully committed. He never sends good people to hell. But the Bible says there are no "good" people, everyone is a sinner who has fallen short(see Romans chapter 3).


is it cowardly if that person had sinned against God?
You believe in justice right? Ever heard of Jesus, does he embody those character traits you mentioned?
hot headed and inconsistent? how so?

If you created the world and all that is in it and hold it together you aren't power hungry you are powerful.
and what is the alternative? Mankind isn't very powerful, they can die of the simplest thing.

"Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it."- Ron Paul

You heathen!

What's up, bro?

Love thy enemy.


What's up fellow DPer?!

-Matthew Good


I believe in God an Jesus. I love some Jesus, but I do not believe everything in the Bible. It is important, but it contradicts the teachings of Jesus.
Think about how Christoper Columbus is hailed a hero. He pimped out 8 and 9 year olds, but that cool.
Abraham Lincoln, killed so many people for government power. They tell us a lie about how he freed the slaves. That was inccorect. We still consider him one of the best presidents ever, when that is so far from the truth.
My point is, information is controlled. Churches are in the business of controlling people more than not these days. What kind of religion contradicts its teacher, and spreads hate and contradictory action? Only one that has been taken over.
I try to just stick to what is written in red. :)

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

I agree with you about churches. However, God promised

that he would preserve his Word.


Also, if you've ever read the Bible as a whole and asking God to make it make sense to you, you will see that it is not as contradictory as you think.

The old testament shows us God's just side, while the new testament reveals his merciful side. You cannot have one without the other.


Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

I agree with you

And I liked your other posts as well.

Ron brought the Liberty movement together, Rand is expanding the crap out of it! :)

The overall message of the Scriptures in a very tiny nutshell

is this.

If I was talking to you or anyone else, I would ask what you think Christianity teaches that a person has to do to have eternal life (heaven after death). A common answer is, "Believe in Jesus and live the golden rule." Although this is a nice thing to do, no one will ever make it to heaven this way. For one thing, which human on the face of this planet has ever lived the golden rule? I know I haven't, much as I've tried.

We have a conscience, so that when we lie, steal, use His name in vain, hate our brother, or commit sexual sin, etc., we do it with knowledge that it is wrong. Every culture in the world has a similar set of ethics, and because of this, I submit to you that this conscience is God-given. Conscience only speaks to us on moral issues, never trite things, such as the color of the shirt we should wear that day.

When we knowingly disobey the truth we hold, God calls it sin. Sin is what sends people to hell.

If you read the "judge not" verse in context, you will see that what Jesus is saying is that every time you think, "so and so should not have done that", you are proving that you know it is wrong to do such things and therefore will be judged for that sin when you die. An example would be when we saw Ken Lay lying, we said, "that is wrong." We are by nature, judgmental beings. We make moral judgements all day every day, because we are humans and not animals.

God loves people and doesn't want them to spend eternity in the lake of fire (that was created for the Devil and not people in the first place). But because of His justice, He must punish sin. He can't let murder and rape just slide. And because He is so holy, He can't let lies and thievery, or any other sin, slide either.

So, He decided to do the unbelievable. He himself would come to earth and live a perfect life (what no other human would ever do) and then shed His innocent blood to pay the debt of sin. He took the sins of the entire world upon Himself, so that if anyone believes on Him, they can receive His righteousness in return. Then when they stand before Him on judgement day, they won't have to answer for all the sins they committed, because God sees them as living the righteous life that Jesus Christ lived.

If this sounds strange to you, don't be surprised, most so-called Christians don't understand it either. Everyone wants to keep trying to be good enough to make it, and they never are. Most people can't even make it one day without sinning. God is not interested in the self-righteous and proud, because they never put their faith in Him and what He's done.

God gave His law, not because we could obey it, although it is a good law. He gave us His law to show us that we needed Him. We can never be good enough to reach a Holy God. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

I've presented the overall message of the Bible here in this short post. I will not argue with all the religious folks who want to keep people in bondage with their man-made traditions and misinterpretations. Jesus came to set people free, so seek Him, not religion.

The Bible is a long and very deep book, so don't get frustrated. I don't think anyone will ever know everything there is to know. Start with the books of John and Romans. The scripture tells us that if you seek truth, you will find it. So, God bless you on your journey.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html