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Would you believe the God of the Bible if you knew the Bible were true?

Although I don't think this thread should be relegated to 'weird stuff', It's probably where it will end up. So, I've done it myself. :)

On to the question, though. I've heard many people say things like, "Well, if God is like THAT, then I don't want to worship Him anyway." My assertion is that a statement like this proves that one is not interested in truth, but only in what he/she would like to believe is truth.

Since I was a child, I have asked questions about everything. One of my math teachers used to laugh because I would never accept "just because" for an answer. I always had to know why something was the way it was. I despised being lied to about anything, whether it was Santa Claus or sex. I suppose that's why I ended up here.

I can't understand why others stop short of finding out the whys. I'm even more surprised that people in the 'liberty movement', don't want to dig deeper when confronted with uncomfortable ideas.

If you want truth, you will be willing to accept it regardless of how you have to change your life to conform to it. If it means that you cannot be a sodomite, you will change. If it means you cannot send your children to public school, you will change. If it means rejecting previous religious beliefs, you will change. And on and on the list could go.

God says in His Word, that if you seek you will find. But, the fact of the matter is, most people don't want truth very badly. They would rather stay comfortable and hope that what they believe is true. If you make up your mind that you will accept and embrace the truth, even if it is the God of the Bible, then you will find. As long as you say, "I'll accept truth if it is.....", you will never find it.

I made up my mind long ago that even if God WAS a brutal authoritarian, I would serve Him--if He was true. Even if He said things I didn't like, I would worship Him if He was really God. Of course, I found that He loves me and wants the best for me and every other human being. But, to find this, I had to be willing to believe truth whatever I found it to be.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." He was (in the words of C.S. Lewis) either a Liar, a Lunatic, or the Lord Himself.

As many hours as I spend researching and reading, this life is not enough for me to understand--it's so short--a tiny dash between two dates on a tombstone. I want to know where I am going when I die---the "me" that is inside my body. If there is a God who will give me these answers, I want to know.

I have now found and can attest to you that Jesus Christ is TRUTH. He is God Almighty come down to make a way for us to God. But, I cannot desire truth for you--that is something only you can do. So, ask yourself today, "How important is truth to me?" And know this, liberty will never succeed without it.

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You sure did say a lot, including JESUS=TRUTH

you also said that if you were a "sodomite" you would change.

well tell me,

what about if you were left handed or black?

would you try to change that too?

OH! that's right I "chose to be gay"!


What exact research led you to think it was bull? The fact that you don't like the evidence does not mean it is bull it simply means you don't like the evidence.

wow, you seriously do not know what you are talking about.

**I started my research in order to be the BEST CHRISTIAN I COULD BE**

**I DID NOT set out to disprove anything**

The difference between us is that,

I researched for years before I reached my conclusions

while you have "faith" and believe in things that cannot be proven.


I have done years of research as well, and I found God existed through both the use of Human Logic( Rene Descartes, Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle, etc) and the use of historical and eyewitness testimony. There is nothing but evidence for God. I do not know how you can draw any other conclusion without simply wanted to believe something that is not true, namely that God does no exist.


...if I am wrong for believing(although my personal experiences cannot change ever that it is a fact to me) then I would suffer nothing because there would be no afterlife. However, if I were wrong about not believing, there would be eternity as a consequence. If you want to make a similar example...If I think there will be a world crisis and the U.S. is going to have some very dangerous times to deal with in the near future, so I prepare for it. If it doesn't happen...I lose nothing. If it does happen and I completely ignored the warnings and lived as though nothing would change...I am screwed! Ah each there own.=)

You're getting close to

You're getting close to Pascals Wager there. Almost.

Like I said... each there own. I know God because of my personal one can change my beliefs. And if someone wants to think I am silly or stupid, that is there choice. I don't try to follow Him because of that philosophy, I do only by choice and am forever far from perfect. Also, if someone doesn't believe as I do, I am in no position to judge that. That philosophy is merely used as a comeback to those who desire to judge those who do believe...nothing wrong in that. It's just a point to be made.

so out of fear, you are

so out of fear, you are "buying" insurance that you go to "heaven" after you die...that is, if there were such a thing?

Good point. That's the

Good point. That's the famous game theory application that argues that belief in God is rational.

It all supposes, however, that belief in God is a requisite to get into heaven :)

That's actually much easier than... believe it's by what you do or don't do that may be wrong. If it was based on not doing any one would get there! Catholics even believe in purgatory(grew up that way but have abandoned organized religious beliefs)...a place where you pay for all your sins before you can go to Heaven! Wow, so many different ways that have been taught to people and so many different interpretations of the scriptures. Over the years, I have learned that there are no formulas for this life and God does what He wants. He is the Creator of liberty and lets us do the same. If one wants to believe he is mean or fake...well...they can do so. Just as everyone on the DP has found the truth in politics because they have researched on their own as others we have all tried to reach still deny that the government could be that as it is with God. If one desires the truth and searches for it without the influence of others...I believe they will find it. There will be flaws and differences in some beliefs just as there are on here with 9/11 and such. But all in all, the truth will be on the heart of the individual. And just as in the truth of liberty that we all share on here that cannot be erased in our minds, so as it is with those who have truth in God, it cannot be erased once it is in the is impossible. However, respect for those who don't believe as you do, no matter if it is God or politics...should always be shown.

Micah_6_8 you ramble on and on but don't say anything.

Here is some meat. YOU are God. I am God. Any man or woman who has ever lived IS God. Why in 2013 is this not understood? 2,000 plus years of Roman control is why.

Everyone here talks so tough about flipping the bird to THE MAN. Well, grow a set of balls and flip the bird to the REAL controller's...organized religion.

They have so brainwashed humanity to kneel to other men that even in the "liberty" movement we have people telling people to kneel before other men.

Get off your fucking knees people and claim what is rightfully yours!

Oh Really

If you are God describe to me how exactly you created the universe and why.

Man is NOT God.

Someday you WILL acknowledge that Jesus is Lord.

Even Jesus

wasn't a Christian. What kind of liberty lover would require anyone to bow down to him?

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine


The kind that loved freedom enough to give you a choice, despite the fact you were pre-condemned for the actions of the first humans against the Creator.

If I gave my children

a choice to worship me, or burn in hell for ALL eternity, (or if you don't believe in hell, banishment) what kind of a choice is that? lol

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
-Thomas Paine


We ALL choose to sin; we all do it everyday. You have to understand the seriousness of sin, and the Holiness of God. Sin MUST be punished. God gave us a way out of that punishment and condemnation, but we have to go about it the way He said, not the way we think.

Jesus thought...

...organized religion sucked too. So do I! I don't belong to any, however, I personally believe in one can change that as a fact for me. However, I respect those who don't believe. Religion sucks. You don't have to be "religious" to believe in God.

umm no

Jesus set up a Church to follow him, I would say that is somewhat organized.

I am speaking of...

...rituals and formulas...also, one doesn't have to go to a church or join a church to know the Lord. Also, there is God's definition of church and man's. "somewhat organized" does not mean organized. You cannot put God in a box and say "this is how He works". It is obvious that some things are real clear...absolutes. Organized religion puts God in a box...need I say...denominations! Okay, who is right? Exactly my point. So many different beliefs, yet the same absolutes.
You go into church A and they tell you cannot dance, cut your females hair or drink wine. You go into church B and bring a friend and they start loudly speaking in tongues and people are falling all over the floor. You go into church C and they tell you whatever you speak is what you should have and if you don't have a lot, you are out of God's will. You go into church D and they tell you to pray to the Mother of Jesus and the "saints" and even though Jesus died on the cross for our sins, you must pay for your sins in a place called purgatory. The list goes on and on. This is what I mean by organized religion.

SteveMT's picture

If the Bible was proven true, there would be no faith involved.

The proof for believing this information is on an individual basis, person-by-person, to be accepted or rejected. If the person believes the Bible to be true, then they act accordingly as well as vice versa. It can't be proven absolutely true for everyone.

I am in between these two extremes of 'all or none' regarding the Bible. I have no problem accepting the parts that are compatible with the God of the universe as defined by me. That definition IS as absolute as Ron Paul's voting record (power, love, forgiveness, mercy, generosity, honesty, compassion, etc.). However, I also have no problem rejecting the parts that are inconsistent with that definition (hate, revenge, murder, genocide, debauchery, etc.).

Faith comes from believing that which cannot be proven, so there is a reason for having equivocal Biblical evidence, IMO. We have been given the capability by The Almighty to sift through all of this information and figure out what are the absolutes worthy of being called the "Word of God" and what are not.

i believe what i want to

i believe what i want to believe. nobody controls my life except for me.

You stated,

"I can't understand why others stop short of finding out the whys. I'm even more surprised that people in the 'liberty movement', don't want to dig deeper when confronted with uncomfortable ideas."

When you make a claim to know "truth" are you not stopping short yourself? Do you think digging deeper than the Bible or "God" in search of answers is an uncomfortable idea or that it's off limits? How does one obtain actual truth without possessing complete information?

The brave ones never stop searching while also understanding that the concept of "truth" is more of an ideal than a reality. The Bible has much benefit to offer, but don't let it become the cage that restricts you from intellectual growth.

Great point...

If one day we are to no longer see through a glass darkly, if we will progress to know God (Truth) better and better (you can never come to the end of this discovery) through eternity, then that means the written revelation we have now is only an elementary school primer, with so much more to seek and discover than we could find merely in its confines. This is where the Bible itself can become a sort of idol, something that we can latch onto so strongly as if it is all of God, and not daring to ask God and to seek what may lay beyond it.

I don't mean to suggest that we do the opposite and cast the Scriptures aside as inferior to our human reason or emotions; but to chastise fellow believers who would dare to seek God's truth and His heart on matters that are not explicitly explained or covered within the letters of the 66 books is an error as well. Our thirst for ALL of His Truth should not be discouraged, even if not all the answers are immediately forthcoming.

That is a

superb illustration. I appreciate your insight and I enjoyed reading your statement.

Does it matter? The message

Does it matter? The message is real.

Lucifer knows...

God is Real.
Satan exists.

Easter Bunny knows...

Santa is Real
Tooth Fairy exists.

Wrong, Dr. Ron Paul believes in God.

Easter Bunny, Santa and the Tooth Fairy exist because they were invented by men. If men are capable of inventing God then men are superior to God.