16 votes

Would you believe the God of the Bible if you knew the Bible were true?

Although I don't think this thread should be relegated to 'weird stuff', It's probably where it will end up. So, I've done it myself. :)

On to the question, though. I've heard many people say things like, "Well, if God is like THAT, then I don't want to worship Him anyway." My assertion is that a statement like this proves that one is not interested in truth, but only in what he/she would like to believe is truth.

Since I was a child, I have asked questions about everything. One of my math teachers used to laugh because I would never accept "just because" for an answer. I always had to know why something was the way it was. I despised being lied to about anything, whether it was Santa Claus or sex. I suppose that's why I ended up here.

I can't understand why others stop short of finding out the whys. I'm even more surprised that people in the 'liberty movement', don't want to dig deeper when confronted with uncomfortable ideas.

If you want truth, you will be willing to accept it regardless of how you have to change your life to conform to it. If it means that you cannot be a sodomite, you will change. If it means you cannot send your children to public school, you will change. If it means rejecting previous religious beliefs, you will change. And on and on the list could go.

God says in His Word, that if you seek you will find. But, the fact of the matter is, most people don't want truth very badly. They would rather stay comfortable and hope that what they believe is true. If you make up your mind that you will accept and embrace the truth, even if it is the God of the Bible, then you will find. As long as you say, "I'll accept truth if it is.....", you will never find it.

I made up my mind long ago that even if God WAS a brutal authoritarian, I would serve Him--if He was true. Even if He said things I didn't like, I would worship Him if He was really God. Of course, I found that He loves me and wants the best for me and every other human being. But, to find this, I had to be willing to believe truth whatever I found it to be.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." He was (in the words of C.S. Lewis) either a Liar, a Lunatic, or the Lord Himself.

As many hours as I spend researching and reading, this life is not enough for me to understand--it's so short--a tiny dash between two dates on a tombstone. I want to know where I am going when I die---the "me" that is inside my body. If there is a God who will give me these answers, I want to know.

I have now found and can attest to you that Jesus Christ is TRUTH. He is God Almighty come down to make a way for us to God. But, I cannot desire truth for you--that is something only you can do. So, ask yourself today, "How important is truth to me?" And know this, liberty will never succeed without it.




Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

If true

I would not need to believe because I would know.

donvino

I know love exists--I have it. But I could still say I believe

love exists. Those words can sometimes be interchangeable.

When you study linguistics, you realize that whomever controls your language can control you. God's use of the word belief and faith are different than our modern understanding. Modern day usage denotes credulity, and not the Bible definition.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Would you believe the God of the Quran...

...if you knew the Quran were true? Of course you would. Right back at you. Here's the TRUTH...you don't KNOW the God of the Bible is real/true...you BELIEVE he is real/true. That is what faith is all about. If you KNEW it was true then there would be no room for faith. You should be more humble.

Personally, I believe Religion is designed to divide and conquer...the same as our political system. I'm all for spirituality...for without it we'll never move forward to a new peaceful place full of freedom and liberty. If you subscribe to the spirituality that Yeshua taught...then start by obeying his commands. First remove the plank out of your eye....

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

Yes, I would. And you should too. You should seek and

embrace truth when you find it. I've found TRUTH.

Jesus Christ is not religion, but I agree with you that religion has been used to control and destroy people.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Exactly!

When I saw the title of the OP your question about believing in the God of Quran was the first question that came to my mind. So I wanted to raise this same question as my comment, but you did it already.

"Air is the very substance of our freedom, the substance of superhuman joy....aerial joy is freedom."--Gaston Bachelard--

Isaiah 55:11 ...

This is how to witness for the God of the Bible, and Christ...who died ONCE for ALL sinners....

" So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

Just give them Scripture, folks!

Thankfully, America is coming out of a generation or more of Southern Baptist Convention works-type salvation rituals such as the Romans Road, walking an aisle, signing a card, praying the sinner's prayer etc. because of some BOLD separatist preaching...and...some are also challenging the rapture timeline of Scofield and others, and admitting NO MAN knows the hour or day, nor how much tribulation His living saints will have to endure this side.of Heaven!

First and foremost, why I believe a zionist cabal runs evangelical Christianity(ecumenism) in America is this scripture here; Romans 16:17-18 " 17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

The whole of the Israeli-first, Left Behind, money-making, believer-deceiving ruse is right there...IMO...

Secondly, I will also say, that which gets me aggravated, makes me distrustful of the Alex Jones' and Glen Beck's who dare to speak with/for this movement are these verses; Proverbs 1:10-19 which read; " 10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:

14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:

16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird. note

18 And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.

19 So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof."

After we strip off all the pomp and circumstance of major "tea party" media, we can see how many of them are nothing but lovers of money....and...I personally say this so that, if anyone was drawn to me also because of my bold proclamations, or, clear presentations regarding where I stand on the issues concerning liberty desired by our founders, liberty lost, and liberty we are striving to reclaim; I best be forewarned of how great the allure of "success" can be, contrasted against what I truly want for our posterity.

I am but a pilgrim passing through I have been told, my rewards are in Heaven for accepting Christ and influencing others for Him, and the very thought of taking any promised crowns and throwing them at my Savior's feet one day humbles me to no end....so I press on, WARNING others to stick to THE WORD of God, more than men; and judge righteous judgement, inspect a man's Christian fruit, inquire of his doctrine, that he be found NOT a liar just tickling your ears for his own PERSONAL(temporary/fleeting....sad to say) gain.

God Bless....seek the Lord while He may be found...this is a spiritual battle!

ecorob's picture

Your wisdom comes from God, PUG.

The way that you just shared it here is inspiring.

I am a better man for it. Thank you and may God continue to bless you!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Love never fails.

It's never too late.
Nothing can separate a person from God's love, life can't & death can't.
If a person makes their bed in Sheol, (hell) God is there.
Jesus has the keys of hell & death and opens/closes those gates....He opened the gates of Hell and led captivity captive ....Jesus is the same yesterday, today & forever & what he did for the prisoners then He will do again ...He will save to the uttermost!( 1 Pet.4:6; Eph.4:8; PS.68:18; Heb.13:8).
Jesus said that when "I be lifted up (on the cross) I will draw ALL men unto me". All means all.
Not a few. All.
That is the good news!

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Well-said :)

I know one major concern our fellow believers have with this view of ultimate reconciliation is that it will remove the sense of urgency in the gospel, to seek Him in this life while He may be found here, and not to just put it off, since, oh well, I'll be rebellious now and bank on being reconciled later.

I have my own reply on that point, but was curious to hear how you respond to this understandable concern.

the love of Christ constrains me....

It is His love within me that wants to see every man, woman and child come to know Him. To KNOW him....to taste and see that He is good....and to know He is REAL...to know Him as their best friend, their Father, their lover and their very OWN LIFE.
All those that have not been quickened by the Spirit of Christ are walking zombies, they are dead in their sins. It is through Christ and His blood that a person AWAKENS out of the realm of death and darkness and begins to TRULY LIVE!! Halleluyah!
The moment a person receives Christ, that very second they are transferred out of the kingdom of darkness INTO the kingdom of God's son.....that reason alone is why we as believers preach the good news....we do not preach the good news from a position of fear, "better give your heart to Jesus or you will burn in hell when you die" --No! We preach because His love constrains us, because we love him so much and we KNOW HIM...and we want everyone to know Him too and begin their glorious journey of REVERSAL.....from corruption to INCORRUPTION...from mortality to IMMORTALITY!
The Kingdom of Heaven is not off in some distant galaxy, not off in the future when you die, not off in some future age....No, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (NOW) and is WITHIN...Glory!!

Thanks for asking Micah--as always I am so blessed by your comments/replies.
Here is a wonderful article that goes into greater detail answering the question " Why should we preach if everyone will be saved"?
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/why_preach_eby.html

His rich blessings to you & your family!

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

?

"All those that have not been quickened by the Spirit of Christ are walking zombies"

Fail.

Good answers...

Thanks! :)

would love to hear your thoughts

to the question you asked......I'm blessed by what the Lord gives you to share. : )

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Remember though, that what God SAYS is what matters, not

what we think He should do. Jesus warns about eternal fire many times and whether or not we can reconcile that in our minds, we must accept it. I can reconcile it because for example, Jesus, to perfectly love the child who's been molested, would have to dole out justice to the molester. We think in terms of time, because we exist within it. However, after death it's eternity we will be in. So, when you die, you've made your decision where you will spend eternity.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Is the cosmic...

...justice abrogated when the atrocities of a monster like Saul of Tarsus, the deaths and pain of those he persecuted, are forgiven and he emerges through the love and grace of Christ, first as the Apostle Paul in this life, and then to receive that white stone with a new name written on it, that only his Father knows? If it is not a violation of God's justice for someone to be forgiven this side of death, why would it arbitrarily be a violation of justice if such repentance occurred on the other side of death? It would all be covered by the blood of the Lamb, for all time.

Gods's word (Col 1) SAYS that all things in heaven and earth will be reconciled to God, with peace having been made through Christ. It SAYS that Christ will draw all men to Himself. It may take some longer than others to come out of the outer darkness through repentance (the uttermost farthing), through God's consuming fire -- but His Love will be victorious, His will shall be sovereign and achieved.

Regarding time vs eternity -- where does it say that in the age to come that we will no longer experience spacetime? I don't see where the description of New Jerusalem loses a sense of time, in that there are still distinct events going on. It describes people washing their robes that they may enter the gates. It mentions the tree of life being there for the healing of the nations. These sound like ongoing processes in time involving restoration, not just an eternal NOW, with no change.

Please see heart4wisdom's explanation of 'aion' and 'pyr' below as well. :)

Dr. Ron Paul is a perfect example of someone who tirelessly lab

Dr. Ron Paul is a perfect example of someone who tirelessly labors to educate people about certain definition of words....'Federal Reserve' , 'Military Industrial Complex', 'Blowback', Neocon', 'Liberty', ect.
Dr. Paul understands that in order for someone to have a *changed mind* regarding economic policy they first need to understand who the Federal Reserve is (NOT a branch of the U.S. Gov't) and they need to understand how the Federal Reserve operates...not in the interest of America but in the Fed's self interest.

I share all of the above to say that in order for the Lord's people to really know the TRUTH (He is truth) then they too must have a *changed mind* (the Greek word 'Repent' means to have a changed mind) about their false idea of eternal torment.

The teaching of eternal torment is a stronghold within Christianity and it has to come down! This teaching is based on inaccurate translations of the words *eternal* & *fire*.
The word 'eternal' is the.Greek word 'aion' meaning "an age"....denoting time, having a limit.
The word 'fire' (as used in the verses regarding judgement) is the Greek word 'pyr' and means 'purifying fire'....not LITERAL fire, but a spiritual fire that one goes through to burn up the 'chaff' of their sin nature so that they can learn righteousness and come into victory!
Have you ever been through the fire?
I have.
Not fun, being chastised by God is never fun but it is because He loves me and wants me to be set free from habits, weaknesses, strongholds, ect. The ever consuming fire of God does this!

This is why I have chosen as my signature tag line www.hopebeyondhell.net because I want everyone to know the correct defintion of words regarding the subject of hell. I want the stronghold of eternal torment to come down so that my Lord is truly seen for the glorious Saviour that He is---the Saviour of the WHOLE WORLD!
For more info on this subject you can go to their website and download the book Hope Beyond Hell for free....it will bless you
Then maybe you too will begin to share the really good news that ALL will be saved in due time!

His blessings of grace, peace, love & joy to you!

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Amen

Thank you for posting this. Christ is the only way and today is the day of Salvation.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Here is the truth of this matter

Nobody......absolutely nobody can, or will come to God unless God Himself draws that person to Himself.

Nobody will believe the Bible as the very Word of God and that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, unless the Spirit of God dwells within them and that will never happen unless God chooses that person to become a child of God.

It's ALL the work of God!

Salvation is of the Lord!

All you deniers and haters of God's truth are in a very sad state of affairs indeed and will soon come to know the truth of what God Himself has been telling everyone on earth, but it will be too late when you take your last breath or when Christ returns.

For those of you who are on the fence about this, don't wait another day to seek His face and call upon the name of the Lord to forgive you all yours sins and pray He draw you unto Himself and save you in Christ's precious name.

God will never turns a deaf ear to a repentant sinner.

Time is short....Eternity is not!

Peace

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

You've been influenced by

You've been influenced by Roman Catholic/Calvinistic doctrine. God wants everyone to be saved and created people to be able to accept or reject Him.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

holbrook, you are sincere but are in error.

I write this reply in a spirit of gentleness and my prayer is that you will listen to the Spirit of Truth.

While you are correct in stating that salvation is all the work of God and is of the Lord , you then incorrectly state that for unbelievers "it will be too late when you take your last breath...time is short ...eternity is not".

The OP asks that everyone do some research...well, doesn't God say that judgement begins with the house of God first? So, before one asks unbelievers to do some research, those that confess Christ as saviour need to do some research of their own.
Research some of these words from a concordance to understand what they REALLY mean.
*Fire*
*Eternal/Everlasting*
*Hell*
*Sheol*
*Destruction*

The topic of eternal torment is one of the biggest strongholds taught within Christendom and this foul doctrine blasphemes the character of my Father and maligns the triumphant atoning work of my saviour and Lord Christ Jesus!
Let God be true and every man a liar!

Love never fails!

His grace and mercy to you.

Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net

Strange Logic

You said:
"Nobody......absolutely nobody can, or will come to God unless God Himself draws that person to Himself."

That clearly indicates that (you believe)nobody can proactively devolop a relationship with God unless God himself draws that person to himself.

Which makes your last statement (below) a cruel joke for those who God has chosen NOT to draw himself nearer to. Only a minority of Athesists that I'm aware of were always non-believers. Most were brought up in the faith that was popular in their family so its safe to assume that they would have "sought his face" and "called upon the name of the lord" at some point.(probably many points) To what do you attribute a large section of the population being unable to communicate or experience the salvation of christ?

"For those of you who are on the fence about this, don't wait another day to seek His face and call upon the name of the Lord to forgive you all yours sins and pray He draw you unto Himself and save you in Christ's precious name."

An excellent podcast/interview with a former christian radio personality who "let go of God" is at the link below. Both his parents were theologians. He says in one part of the interview that people sometimes tell him he must not have REALLY been a christian if he can now be an atheist...but like so many former believers...he says if I wasn't a christian...nobody is. Its worth listening to if the truth is what you genuinely are after. Almost without exception, people of faith only CLAIM to be desirous of the truth when in fact they choose to believe in the exsistence of a God...against all contrary evidence. However, I do understand the discomfort of accepting reality. I'm 50 and was active in church until about 5 years ago. It took me about 6 months to finally allow myself to be free from the chains of religion. It took my wife almost a year. If I had any idea how much my life would change for the better...I would have considered it sooner. Unfortunantly I had been convinced that questioning God meant that "the devil" or "evil" was entering my soul. It all seems so silly now...but thats how I was taught from a very early age. lol!

Oh well, I love everyone here "in liberty". Thats what liberty is all about...the freedom to be individuals and believe whatever we want to believe.

Podcast below if anyone is intersted.

http://go213mph.wordpress.com/audio-files/

Link Named:
Frankly Faithless: Stefan Molyneux interviews “The Thinking Atheist”

Judge not lest you be judged

The existence of God doesn't depend on what one believes. He is, you are. Does a tree falling in the woods make a sound if no one is there to hear it?
Your arguement creates enmity. You don't know God's plan for anyone, despite what you read and repeat. Don't assume to know God's plan.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

I judge no man but speak the truth of the Word

I am not sure what you are talking about stm but what I have said is directly from the very Word of God and so it will surely create emnity but not between true believers but with those who do not want to believe the Word.

God is from everlasting to everlasting no matter what anyone says or thinks.

Yes, I do know God's plan for man because it is written in His word.

God will have a people for Himself and that is the very reason for creating man and that we who are His should glorify Him both now and forever.

He has chosen us ( who are His ) and has drawn us to Himself and Has given us of His Spirit.

This is ALL written within His Word.

Peace

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

I object to this statement of yours, holbrook

"All you deniers and haters of God's truth are in a very sad state of affairs indeed and will soon come to know the truth of what God Himself has been telling everyone on earth, but it will be too late when you take your last breath or when Christ returns."

Those deniers and haters are God's children, too, and for you to condemn anyone based on what's written excludes all that may not be written. We can only know what God has exposed, but what if there are some things He has kept to Himself? God knows everyone's capabilities and deficiencies. God is magnanimous yet just. I just think it very dangerous to assume to know it all based on what scripture has survived or has been chosen to be included in the Bible. I'm sure Jesus said a lot more than what is in the 4 Gospels. He preached for 3 years. That's a lot of preaching that was never written down.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

You may object stm

but you do not understand the Scriptures I am sorry to say.
When all is said and done and Jesus comes on that Judgment Day, all that He chose to save will have been saved.
He will have perfectly completed His plan of salvation and none of His will have been lost!

Peace

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

All scripture is given by inspiration of GOD

All scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
- 2 Timothy 3:16

Do you know who authored 2 Timothy?

...or when it was written? Shouldn't that matter? Do a little research....

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy

I do, but what does that matter? You should seek truth for

yourself. That's why I wrote the OP.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

doesn't matter.

It is the word of the LORD GOD.

Doesn't matter?

....hmmm. It absolutely matters. BTW...even John said that the 'word of God' was Yeshua himself. The 'word of God' IS NOT the Bible as you know it...never was. Are the words of God contained in the Bible...perhaps. But...some of the Bible has been outright altered by Scribes...that isn't opinion it is demonstrable fact.

Jeremiah 8:8
" 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?

...it was even going on in OT times. You can say that the Bible is the 'word of the Lord God' a million times and choose to believe it...but that does not make it true.

Good luck!

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
- President John F. Kennedy