41 votes

Do We Even Need Public Schools Anymore?

Public schools are obviously failing at educating our children,are become a breeding ground for violence and they cost tax payers more and more every year.With the exception of trade schools,where you actually are taught to do something and a few college degrees,can anyone tell me why there is a need for public schools at all? Everything that is taught in public school can be learned online and then some.Here are just a few examples.

http://www.khanacademy.org/

http://www.k12.com/schools-programs/online-public-schools

http://www.insightschools.net/

http://mises.org/

And there are hundreds if not thousands more.
DP What are your thoughts?

Ed

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The community

Should hire and fire teachers and not some useless boards and administrators. A parent/s could easily do this redundant job thus lowering taxes and more oversight. Teacher unions produce more problems than solutions.

This is what public schooling should be imo.

donvino

The title says it all...

Doodling In Math Class: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DK5Z709J2eo

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

Public Education and Compulsory education needs to be abolished!

Public schools have, from their very conception, been intended to produce obedient factory workers who would be literate enough that they could follow directions, competent enough with math that they could solve problems on the job, and knowledgeable enough about history that they would become disciples of government largess and authority. Nothing has changed in 150 years except the level of propaganda and conditioning, and the nature of the plantation they are preparing their students for. On top of that, so called private schools have become ensnared by the same elitist programming through foundation grants and their false "brain trusts" and "thinktanks." (See: http://whatnwo.blogspot.com/2009/06/norman-dodds-story.html?m=0 )

Formal education today is intended to create obedient, hard working serfs that produce wealth for their government plantations, an ultimately the plantation owners.

Read John Taylor Gatto's book "Dumbing Us Down" to get a great history lesson on the development of, not only Public Education, but compulsory education as well.

Heris his web site:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

We need public education but

We need public education but the system needs to be overhauled. There is a problem with your proposal in getting rid of these schools altogether. The information to be learned by students is consolidated, organized, and extra resources for learning are made available, the biggest resource you mentioned already, the internet. I'm a senior studying geology at a quality college in South Dakota and I've used the internet to learn almost everything required for my degree. This is either because I don't feel I'm getting quality instruction from my professors, or because the books they give us are so packed full of information that even the books themselves are not relevant to the subject matter.

That being said, if one could create a robust curriculum, organize the material, include checks and balances into the system in the form of homework, subject quizzes, and self tests, include video lectures and instruction when necessary, and do these things in a way that allows students to understand not just what they are doing, but WHY they are doing it, then a stronger focus on individual learning would manifest. Couple this with a post educational apprenticeship program in the students field of choice, and then not only would we eliminate the need for public schools, but we would reinforce the importance of public education, bring opportunity back to the students, and give America the chance it needs to compete globally.

There other thing is that no matter how smart a kid is, in the public school system, that child is let down because there is no focus on individual learning. That child is stuck to work and learn at the pace of the other students, or forced to keep up at the pace of other students who naturally grasp the subject matter. The SYSTEM needs to be changed, and its why America is falling behind. Tell a bunch of kids that they have to go to school, then tell them they have to learn things that are mostly irrelevant to their interests, then tell them that they have to learn it at an uncomfortable pace, and that they have to learn it in a way which is not relevant or inclusive of their interests, then you're not educating. All you're doing is forcing good kids to conform to a system that will leave them hopeless, without opportunity, without motivation, without personal responsibility, and without a clear conception of acceptable standard.

Those are my thoughts. There is a need for change in the system.

It's a big blue world!

There Is Curriculum

Your statement,

"That being said, if one could create a robust curriculum, organize the material, include checks and balances into the system in the form of homework, subject quizzes, and self tests, include video lectures and instruction when necessary, and do these things in a way that allows students to understand not just what they are doing, but WHY they are doing it, then a stronger focus on individual learning would manifest."

I have home schooled for 10 years and I know that the curriculum that you would like to be created has been created. The only coarse that is not taught is Common Sense. And with any child that should be a daily subject. My oldest child just took her SAT and received a score of 1320. Not to bad if I have to say so myself.

By the way, you third paragraph is Right On.

Joined the Liberty Movement in Anchorage, Alaska, 1977. Ron Paul supporter since 1983.
In Liberty from the Pacific Northwest.

Run for School Board

why sit around complaining about it? As a board member you can make inroads into changing what a public school is.

of course we don't need public schools. I sent mine to catholic school. They came out educated and knew how to critically think.

But seriously, does anyone think public schools are going to just vanish? People are too dependent on them and the others people's money they use to "educate" their kids.

So, your mission is to take over the school board and change the system.

A system established by Gov. for your benefit is an illusion.

The beauty of the system (most any government system) is the illusion that people have the ability to change it. When people get involved in it they are demonstrating their support for it.

What really needs to happen is for people to learn that teachers are not a priesthood that holds the keys to the kingdom of educated people, that compulsory education as an avenue to heigher literacy and greater knowledge is a myth, that standards are good but the only standards that count are the parents' standards, that the effective amount of actual academic learning that a student receives in school is about 9 hours a week, that the entire purpose of forced education is to create obedient hard working tax paying serfs who believe that the government's job is to direct their lives and provide them with a job so thay can be righteous and pay their fair share in taxes to the government so it can continue to provide an economy and more jobs, all the while keeping them safe from themselves and some invisible, chaotic, and hostile foreign enemies, and that a culture is produced by the people who voluntarily participate in it, and true literacy and a desire for learning only come from a culture that knows what it is, reveres it, and strives for it. There is no excuse for abdicating responsibility for your culture.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

Tear down the public schools....

The few good teachers will find jobs in private schools.

My wife works at an elementary school, and every day tells stories of corruption and incompetence.

My wife works for a teacher who can't do simple percentages. The other day this teacher was told that 69% of her kids met some standard. So she asked my wife (the assistant) how to figure out how many kids failed the standard. And the teacher couldn't subtract 69 from 100 in her head! She has a big reputation as an idiot, but it's tough to get rid of her. Especially since the last principal didn't care, so didn't start the documentation process. The new principal cares more, but is having to start from scratch jumping through all the hoops.

Another lady exists to train the teachers (what was that college degree for????). She told my wife that many of the teachers didn't know how to do simple fractions.

Then there's the $100,000 the district spent on a new curriculum, but didn't use it.

My wife has a teaching degree but has trouble getting a teacher position, so works as an aide. She's highly recommended by even the local university's education professor she worked with in a laboratory school. But my wife was recently told that the system doesn't like people like her who are too good, as she might not do what she's told. They prefer to hire young grads who won't rock the boat.

Despite the rhetoric, public schools have little to do with education. It can happen, but is not required.

We vote against all school levies because of the waste.

We love K12

My boys are enrolled in K12 and we love it. A warning to the public though is that the curriculum is very rich and challenging. Most parents say it is too hard for both parent and child. The content is a bit challenging and higher than the grade level it is rated for (as compared to standard curriculum). So, if your child has been in public school, they will have to spend a year ramping up to their current grade level in K12, as mine did.

We can't afford to pay for it ourselves so are actually enrolled in an alternative learning environment (ALE) through our public school district. The district gets my tax dollars but I don't care (some folks have a real conniption about that). It's not like I would get the tax dollars otherwise.

Melinda

Public Schools are worth about as much as dog doo doo

And that's doing injustice to dog poo

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!

NO!!!!!

And if you are still sending your children to these abominable institutions you are a damned fool. Save your excuses.

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

PUBLIC schools? No. And now it's going to get worse!

Tax-funded (i.e. money stolen by force) schools are certainly not 'needed' at this point. Ask any home schooler--and that "movement" is continuing to grow by leaps and bounds!

And now, with Common Core, our "public" tax funded schools are going to get even worse! For those who don't know about Common Core you should research it.

http://stopcommoncore.com

http://arizonansagainstcommoncore.com

Common Core will even further "dumb down" our children, will not make them more "college ready" (which is dubious these days anyway), will cost too much, and is the final power-grab to fully nationalize all the States' school systems. If you have a child or grandchild in school, they WILL be affected by this. Get involved and hold your administrators accountable--get OUT of Common Core!

If I knew then what I know now, you can bet all the gold (supposedly) in Fort Knox I would have never sent my kids to a district school--and I've even had a TEACHER in a local school district tell me that of her own children!!!

Yep. Common Core is funded by B&M Gates btw

and if you go to Kahn Academy, Oh Hey... there is a video of Kahn and Gates together.

No such thing as "free" education when offered by these people. This is the theft of our children by providing globalists' "education".

If you look closely at your town/county/region comprehensive plan you might just find that "you" (ahem...) have given your district's curriculum decisions to the "local industry" as ours did.

This is a very serious matter.

Or public libraries?

Or even a House of Representatives?

http://www.dailypaul.com/276003/abolish-the-house-of-represe...

If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one.

Build a School in the Cloud

A great TED talk about School in the Cloud, a learning lab, where children can explore and learn from each other -- using resources and mentoring from the cloud...

_____________________________________
He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression.
Frontline: The Untouchables

Excellent!

Excellent!

Find videos on Youtube

for Charlotte Iserbyt. After listening to her, if a parent has any conscience at all, they won't send their kids to public schools.

My proposed solution

I would like to see schooling transferred to an independent teacher model.

Many states have an education budget that translates into about $7,000 per student per year. So, in a classroom of 20 students, that's $140,000 per year. It's sad that we can't really turn out better educated students for that figure. Under the independent teacher model, you do away with "school districts" and instead, each teacher gets a license as an individual educational institution. Each teacher sets up their own place of business where they will teach, they will decide which grade they will teach, etc. Multiple teachers can arrange with each other to locate their businesses in mutually agreeable areas such as 5 teachers who teach 5 different grades might decide to have their businesses in the same office building.

The $7,000 or whatever each state budgets per pupil would go to the particular teacher and they use that for their business operations. Now, a teacher with 20 students would have $140,000 to spend on an office, on supplies, their salaries, and any support staff that they choose.

This system would allow parents to choose individual teachers as opposed to just schools. Each teacher can have their educational stats posted such as their professional background, recent proficiency results, parental feedback, etc. Right now, I have a choice of one public school and they decide what teacher my child gets. Under this proposal, there might be 20 different teachers who offer educational services at the desired grade level I need for my child and I can evaluate each one of them. Teachers wouldn't belong to a union but instead are in business for themselves. Teachers that do great work would naturally have full classrooms and make good money as parents try to get their kids into that teacher's class. Teachers that suck would see mostly empty classrooms and would eventually be unable to stay in business.

Also, since teachers would have free reign to locate their business in any suitable location, you wouldn't have facilities that are housing thousands of children that are just ripe for the latest pharmaceutical nutjob. Education would be de-centralized.

________________________________________

They are government schools now, not community schools

And I think THEY need those more than we do! They need government schools to teach children how to be institutionalized and that the expansion of the federal government represents "progress".

Localism is for people who can still sleep at night even though somebody they don't know in a city they have never been is doing things differently. ("Localism, A Philosophy of Government" on Amazon for Kindle or Barnes and Noble ebook websites)

Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom...

...should be high on that list too!

http://www.libertyclassroom.com

Do We Still Even Need Public Schools? - HELL NO!!!

I am a public high school teacher of 4 years. So this is very close to my heart.

After being in the public school, seeing how the school culture affects the kids, their ability to answer or find the importance in any question, how it corrupts their values and they are left WITHOUT ANY VALUES apart from "looking good" for the opposite sex by being funny, or dressing provocatively, and how children and adults alike end up dishonestly calling this fiasco VIRTUOUS.

I feel especially sorry for the kids that can't even recognize the system as abusive... They defend the system! Poor kids.

I have had some kids that just jump around the campus trying to avoid bully sessions, and ask me to seat them away from the kids that discuss drugs and partying all class.

And we FORCE THIS ON PEOPLE! And fine adults or threaten jail time to people that try to escape; then STEAL their tax dollars while we force them to take what they don't want. It just makes me sick.

And these kids won't even be able to protect themselves from this type of abuse; because they don't even recognize it as abuse, or have the desire or ability to think about the most important topics critically.

My heart goes out to the poor kids, the victims.

My advice: REBEL! PROTEST! ENTIRE FAMILIES: PROTEST IN EVERY WAY!

Just to add -

I've seen many parents look at it as a form of babysitting/childcare while both or single parent households go to work. If a single mom had to go to work, and no family members can or are willing, who could she leave the child with during work hours? I've even heard stay at home moms sound grateful that they get a "break" from their kids while they're off at school. It's certainly easier for them to shop or hit the gym(if no childcare available) without the kids.

Public schools are a form of

Public schools are a form of child abuse. No offense to teachers.

In my experience the teachers

In my experience the teachers are the worst and need to be offended. I did not have one decent teacher in middle school (secondary school grades 7-12), and most were the definition of a nightmare.The administrative staff flat out don't care. I attended a private high school and the difference was night and day. Teachers were there to teach and help and the administrators actually cared about any/all issues. However, I do go to a public college and it has been the best decision I've made personally.

Unsuspecting, willing, blind, controllable herd
Pawns in a covert game conducted by hands we trust
Dominated, compliant and deceptable
Confident that we matter - we don't see that we're but dust.

-Meshuggah "Dancers To a Discordant System"

Virtually every public school

Virtually every public school teacher Ive run into throughout the years hates the system. It takes a toll on them because they have to please the higher ups rather than focusing on the students who need the attention.

Hell, at least....

....in prison, the citizens are disarmed because they committed a crime (well some of them committed a crime anyway), but in public school you are disarmed for no reason at all.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Anymore? We didn't even need them before.

Aside from being a miserable failure, public schools are the least Constitution friendly place in the US. Your unalienable rights are less alienated in prison than they are in public school. At least in prison, you can worship your god the way you want and drop the f-bomb if you so choose.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Yea, I had heard more than

Yea, I had heard more than once faculty say that the kids basically have no rights in school and they have to do what they are told.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Only problem with online

is that there needs to be an adult involved.

A parent (preferably - otherwise it's public school in a different form) needs to be there and invested in the process from K to 12.

But recently we have Obama promoting government sponsored pre-schools (from birth to age 4) so the parents can get back to work as soon as the child is born.

Anything to destroy the family.

Parents need to prioritize and put their kids first.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

unfortunately

There are fewer and fewer decent and moral teachers left. More and more seem to be preying on students due to their insecurities imo and lack of humanity.

The school admin and boards are also lacking since they set the policies and protect their own.

Technology cannot replace everything but school boards have to dissolve eventually or education will continue to suffer. Schools should be much smaller and more closely knit. The contractors and engineers and architects benefit hugely from all these subsidies from the taxpayer.

The moral deficit of course needs to be reversed. This is why the teachers and administrators should be publicly vetted and humiliated if found guilty of preying on children or any other crimes.

donvino