2 votes

Question about Silver..."Preppers?"

I just noticed that a few sellers on ebay have been selling bars of silver which they clearly describe as "Silver-plated" and notate that they are not pure silver.

HOWEVER, when I look at the pictures, the bars themselves will say "Pan am" or " Sunshine Minting" or whatever else and say "One Troy ounce, Pure Silver, .999" or whatever else.

Like I said, the sellers are pretty clear that they are plated but they could be used as "preppers" or as a decoy to the real silver.

TWO QUESTIONS....First, are these bars even legal?

Second, if they are sold, what is to stop the buyer from turning around and selling them as legit? If these are out there (and before ten minutes ago, I had hoped they wouldn't be) how can the average joe like myself figure out if the coin or bar I own is truly 100% (or 99.99%) silver?

Please advise. Thanks!

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My BIGGEST concern is this...

If the seller is disclosing what they are for...to fake out potential thieves, I guess I can see that.

What concerns me is over time that these eventually get sold again, but next time, or two times from now as real. I mean, what if some guy buys these and dies in a few years. His kids are going through all his stuff and see these and assume they are real. They sell them and someone like myself, a sort of novice buys them and just tucks them away. Down the road, THAT buyer is doing something with them and then BAM, they aren't real!

That was my reasoning for the initial question.

My theory on these is

That this seller is buying base metal silver plated blanks (which are just bullion that hasn't been stamped yet) and is stamping them himself. I think he is under the VERY FLASE impression that he can stamp these .999 and sell them as long as he discloses that they are plated silver in his ads. Notice how he doesn't go into too much detail, but had a nice clear picture of the bar for buyers to see?? It's only a matter of time until he gets popped if this is in fact what he's doing, because its ILLEGAL to stamp a plated bar .999, even if you disclose it prior to sale!! No legitimate refiner would EVER stamp something as fine silver when it isn't because they wouldn't be in business very long. If this is in fact what he's doing, I bet he's doing it out of country. If Sunshine Minting was aware of this I can't imagine they'd be very happy. BUYER BEWARE!!

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

Will you please stop?

It's not fucking illegal for a person to do this as long as they disclose what the fuck the item really is. The seller isn't stamping anything, they are just buying this stuff wholesale (probably from China) and reselling it.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Why buy wholesale from China?

Why buy wholesale from China? Why wouldn't Sunshine which is in Idaho stamp these???? Because its fucking illegal that's why

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

It's not illegal. Those

It's not illegal. Those mints just have no interest in making decoy products, and everything from China is just cheaper no matter what.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

They have no interest in it

They have no interest in it because its against the law,, and it would also make people question the markings on their products!! Again, simple logic.

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

It's not against the law. No

It's not against the law. No one would question the markings on their other products if they disclosed decoys.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

Show me one bullion

Show me one bullion minter/refiner in the USA that makes "decoys". Just one, please.

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

Show me proof it's not

Show me proof it's not illegal and I'll stop!

Sec. 297. - Stamping plated articles
(a) Words ''sterling'' or ''coin'' forbidden
In the case of articles of merchandise made in whole or in part of an inferior metal, having deposited or plated thereon or brazed or otherwise affixed thereto a plating, covering, or sheet composed of gold or silver, or of an alloy of either of said metals, and known in the market as rolled gold plate, gold plate, gold filled, silver plate, or gold or silver electroplate, or by any similar designation, so imported into or exported from the United States, or so deposited in the United States mails for transmission, or so delivered to any common carrier, or so transported or caused to be transported as specified in section 294 of this title, no such article, nor any tag, card, or label attached thereto, nor any box, package, cover, or wrapper in which such article is encased or inclosed, shall be stamped, branded, engraved, or imprinted with any word or mark usually employed to indicate the fineness of gold, unless such word or mark be accompanied by other words, plainly indicating that such article or part thereof is made of rolled gold plate, gold plate, or gold electroplate, or is gold filled, as the case may be, and no such article, nor any tag, card, or label attached thereto, nor any box, package, cover, or wrapper in which such article is incased or inclosed, shall be stamped, branded, engraved, or imprinted with the word ''sterling'' or the word ''coin'', either alone or in conjunction with other words or marks.

Read it all for yourself...
http://www.925-1000.com/a_StampingAct1906.html

I don't really know what else will prove it to you.....and I thought I was stubborn!

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

Can you even understand that?

It's just not illegal. A law like that is just null and void because it violates a person's right. You can do whatever you want as long as you do not harm anyone. Selling such a product while disclosing what it really is would not be harming anyone. Selling such a product while not disclosing what it really is would be harming someone. Get it? That "law" is also gone because they don't use PMs in money anymore. You use to be able to take your silverware to the treasury and they would give you silver notes and silver coins. They relied solely on the marking on the items, they didn't actually test to see what they were. Your whole argument is like saying that because the US code says it's illegal to do whatever to the flag that it actually applies and supersedes the 1st amendment.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

I've never stated I agree

Yes, I can. I'll break it down for you - "its illegal to misrepresent metal content with a stamp" lol. I've never stated I agree with law, just that it is on the books. Can you even understand that??

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

No, it's not.

No, it's not.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

proof, please

proof, please

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

caveat emptor

I do not buy online. I go to a local dealer, and I take my scale with me. I know what I am going to buy and what it should weigh. I can't answer your questions, so I do what I can to avoid the problem.

This is the article that got my posting privileges revoked:
http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2013/05/12/18212165-dr-stan-...

Just so you know...

Plating is not the same as cladding.

Cladding is something like how cupro-nickel coins are made. They are different metals pressed together at very high pressures, essentially making a welded-together sandwich.

Plating is done with a chemical that contains a salt containing the metal to be plated to the object. They apply an electric current to a sacrificial piece of metal and the object to be plated, and the metal transfers from the chemical to the object while the sacrificial piece of metal erodes and makes a new salt.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

SteveMT's picture

Any imitations should be clearly marked as such.

The Hobby Protection Act
Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.

(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY".

(b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, non-deceptively, & in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations:

(1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language.

(2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.
http://www.apic.us/Resources/HobbyProtectionAct/tabid/261/De...
http://www.greatamericancoincompany.com/c40/c50/1967-South-A...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-2-1-TROY-OUNCE-999-FINE-24k-GOLD...

Does an ingot

or, for that matter something where the size is considerably different
(Mercury dime the size of a silver dollar, for example) from the original
meet the definition of an "imitation numismatic item"??

Just wondering.

The word facsimile is also

The word facsimile is also acceptable.

That's a bunch of BS.

Morgan dollars have been privately minted with 0.999 for decades without "copy" being stamped on them. I have an early one without a date. I also have a big 2 oz. round made of 0.999 that is just a giant Mercury dime. It does not say "copy."

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

You were again just presented

You were again just presented with facts and called it bullshit. If someone were to reproduce say a 1964 Kennedy using base metal it would have to say "COPY" on it (yes these do exist) - the Morgan's you speak of we're reproduced with .999, so they say .999! Simple logic really.

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

No, the "law" that you're

No, the "law" that you're trying to cite (which isn't even your precious stamping act) states that you cannot make any coin in the likeness of any US coin. Do you know what likeness is? I'll give you a clue. It has nothing to do with metal content. It has to say "copy" on it and it has nothing to fucking do with what it's made of.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

It does when the original

It does when the original coin they're copying had silver content, case in point the 64 Kennedy's. but I understand your point here.

A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.

.999 fine silver coin (1 oz) just sold for $34 on ebay.

I thought maybe "fine" silver was different than "pure" silver...but it appears you can't trust that either.

Was this one silver OR was it silver plated?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Ounce-999-OPM-Silver-Bar-/130860...

SteveMT's picture

Here is an example of a silver-clad bar.

LOT OF TWO (2) 1 TROY OZ SILVER CLAD .999 USA FRANKLIN $100 BILL BULLION ART BAR
THESE BARS ARE NOT SOLID SILVER THEY ARE EACH INDIVIDUALLY PLATED IN PURE .999 FINE SILVER, EACH COMES IN A HARD PLASTIC PROTECTIVE CASE.
I THINK THE CORE METAL IS COPPER BUT IT IS HARD TO TELL WITHOUT CUTTING INTO ONE.
EACH BAR WEIGHS 1 TROY OZ.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-TWO-2-1-TROY-OZ-SILVER-CLAD-999-...
And another:
1oz Sunshine Mint .999 Silver Layered Bullion Bar
Not 100% Solid Silver - This is a Layered Silver Bar
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1oz-Sunshine-Mint-999-Silver-Layered...

I don't understand why Sunshine puts .999 fine silver on it

Too confusing...if Sunshine puts .999 fine silver one troy ounce, how can I tell the difference?

The ebay seller claims they are plated.

But nowhere on the bars is it marked as such.

They say "clad" right on the

They say "clad" right on the bars.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.

On SteveMT's links they are marked...on the ones I posted, I

I don't see it on the ones I posted.

I didn't see your comment

I didn't see your comment above your links. It's just something you have to deal with. Just looking at feedback is most of getting a genuine product. Hell, there are even now tons of Chinese fakes of coins circulating in our currency.

Please come join my forum if you're not a trendy and agree with my points of view.