1 vote

Don't condemn just Zionism, condemn injustice wherever and whenever. Including from Palestinians

Recently a top post was on how "We Need to Stop the Anti-Jew Posts".

A few relevant points.
1) Just because you are Jew, does not make you a Zionist.
2) Just because you are a Zionist does not make you a Jew.
3) Just because you are a Zionist does not mean you want other countries involved in helping maintain a Zionist state.

Yes we practically all agree that the Israeli government's involvement with the AIPAC and other forces upon the US government is unacceptable. Most of us also agree that the Israeli government's response to Palestinian resistance is heavy handed. Some would go as far as to call it an Apartheid state.

I'm not here to defend the Israeli government. It can defend its self. What I want people within the liberty community to wake up to, is that the treatment of Jews in the geographical area and/or country known as Israel since the 1800s until the 1950s is not so different than the current treatment of Palestinians today. In fact, one could try argue that it was worse.

An absolutely CRUCIAL thing to remember is that prior to the declaration of independence by the Israeli government, Jews were asking for two state solution but Palestinians refused. Now Palestinians demand a two state solution and the Israeli government refuses. Perhaps this makes both groups tyrannical cowards? Either way, I will not support one over the other, or pretend that one is a oppressor when the other side would gladly return the favor.

One last thing to keep in mind. The UN is a front for the NWO, yes? So why is it so obviously pro-Palestinian? Something to keep in mind, friends. Things are not always 100% cut and dry.

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JTTC,

As I see it, the third point you make is unfortunately the other way around. All Political Zionists who hold office in the US are absolutely obedient to the Israeli lobbies and support anything that the Zionist regime in Israel decides to do. If they didn't throw their support in for Israel, they would loose campaign funding and wouldn't have as great of a chance getting elected. Political Zionists support imperialist Israeli actions which includes genocide against Palestinians and false flags like 9/11; both used to ethnically cleanse the Middle East of non-Jewsish peoples. The whole Bush Jr. administration was comprised of political Zionists and there are still many prominent players in or connected with the Obama administration like Rahm Emanuel who pass down the orders from the Zionist elites in Israel.

With respect to non-Jewish Semite treatment of Jews prior to the occupation of the Holy Land, it is not comparable to the estimated 1.5million plus people who have been killed by the hands of Israelis since 1948. I am aware of a couple isolated incidents prior to the occupation in which jews were killed by non-Jewish Semites, however the death numbers were less than 100 or so people as I remember.

Regarding the UN's position on Palestine, currently Palestine is only an observer member of the UN. That means they cannot cast votes, they are only allowed to attend the assemblies; so their role is compromised. I would also like to point out that it is the Fatah government of the West Bank that the UN is appearing to garner support for; not the Hamas military-style government in the Gaza Strip. Perhaps there is a reason for the UN's backing of the Fatah. I would suggest there is, and I would suggest that reason is two-fold:
1) to create the false appearance that the international community recognizes Palestine and its right to have a voice
and
2) to infiltrate and otherwise subvert or suppress the Palestinian population in the West Bank in favor of Israel

"he UN is a front for the

"he UN is a front for the NWO, yes? So why is it so obviously pro-Palestinian?"

By that logic what happened in Sudan was good because the UN was against it.

Ventura 2012

except

I never said that. I only said "Things are not always 100% cut and dry."

Pottawattamie County Iowa

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul

My point is that it has no

My point is that it has no relevance whatsoever

Ventura 2012

I condemn Zionism as an IDEOLOGY, just as I condemn...

communism, fascism and any form of fundamentalist dogma.

I condemn individual ACTS, such as Rand Paul's "enthusiastic support" of Mitt Romney and his votes on Iran sanctions.

However, what annoys me the most is the pious concern of so many at this website about ANYTHING outside of YOUR "comfort zone". I have yet to see a single post here involving either mainstream or fundamentalist Christianity that has received net negative votes. However, articles about 911 got people crucified until late 2010 and articles about unexplained paranormal activities still get a lot of us "high negatives." I post something here about Gnostic Christianity and I get hammered.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!"

Matthew 23 29:31

Bob, you failed to understand Zionism

1) If you are a Libertarian, you should allow people to have freedom to be left alone or for a collective separate themselves from others if they like.

2) The issue at hand is only about the land - group demands. Since "Palestine" was never an independent state in whole human history and Israel got West Bank land as the result of victory in the war with Jordan, the dispute is complicated. Emotions do not solve the issue. But a Libertarian cannot have an ideological opposition to Zionism. Open borders is not the main idea of individual liberty if people are allowed to form a collective and separate themselves from others.

Justice is blind. Fairness is a collective dogma.

If there is no daily whining here about chopping hands and vaginas in muslim countries under Sharia Law, then the truth must be admitted: anti-Zionist whining is not about protecting individaul rights of people. It is siding with a particular group in a group demand conflict. Although each individual can make such a personal choice (which group to support in a group demands conflict), it has nothing to do with INDIVIDUAL rights or libertarian movement.

Groups have no rights, only demands. There is no group justice. Palestinian leaders (both Hamas, Fatah and others) violate individual rights of Palestinian individuals ALL THE TIME.

Why does anyone here care, is my question?

Like Ron Paul says, ITS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

If anyone cares so much (pro-Israeli or pro-Palestine) GO MOVE THERE!

People who run their mouths on either side are just disinfo agents.

If they cared so much, they would move there or shut the **** up because it's none of our business.

It is our business

It is our business since about 90% of our problems as a nation can be traced to our support of the Zionist regime occupying Palestine.

We need to totally cut-off Israel and all other nations from receiving our aid, purge all of the duel citizenship individuals from the US government, and only elect politicians who will put America first, second and third.

In the alternative, we could launch an all-out surprise thermonuclear attack on Israel, and once and for all flush the toilet and finally bring some degree of peace to the Middle East. I know that some folks would be upset, but people have short memories and in a few months, people would start to forget about it.

You claim to support Ron Paul...

...and recommend nuking Israel? REALLY?

I'm sure if Ron Paul read your post he would be disgusted and disappointed that after 8 years of campaigning you didn't hear one word he said.

give us some proof--

the Jews Against Zionism claim that they got along well with their Muslim neighbors before 1948--

I'm sure there were exceptions on both sides, but I don't see any documentation--

I don't believe that the U.S. SHOULD be involved in any of this, but I can protest against the treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government, because *my* government (the U.S.) is pro-Israel.

That's wrong.

I agree that the U.S. should get out of that place, all of it (middle east), but it hasn't gotten out, and until it does, I will point out that *we* are supporting oppression (everywhere, come to think of it)--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Thank you

I don't support either group as it is clear that both is perfectly ok with treating the other like trash.

Exactly how I feel

The history of abuse of Jews/Israelis by Palestinians is just as bad as the other way around.

They can work out their own shit.