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TheYoungTurks: Drone Strikes - Is Rand Paul a Constitutional Hero?

http://youtu.be/qoWy7wnucXY

"Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) announced on the Senate floor Wednesday he intended to filibuster the nomination of John Brennan as director of the CIA, citing concerns about President Barack Obama's policy on civil liberties.

"I will speak until I can no longer speak," Paul said."*

As much as we may agree with the bulk of Rand Paul's stances, he may deserve to be called a hero for standing up against John Brennan's nomination to CIA director based on his and Obama's stance that Americans could be able to be killed by drones on American soil. Cenk Uygur makes the case.



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Using Kruthhamer as

Using Kruthhamer as validation? Interesting....

Right? lol

He might as well throw in Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and .... hell ... why not just throw Lindsey Graham, Nixon and Netanyahu on the pile just for giggles.

Some here seem to think that

Some here seem to think that Rand, spending 12 hours of one day of his life, railing against one, albeit an important one, issue that concerns liberty, somehow negates his positions on a multitude of other issues where he comes up short.

He was....

...paid while doing it with our money.

I see Rand Paul as Running a Zig Zag

Unlike like Ron Paul, who stuck to principle and just tried his best to gently and kindly explain it, Rand Paul appears to do this....ZIG ZAG.

He ZIGS towards the principled fight, then when the votes are in and he is clearly going to lose the principled fight, he ZAGS back over to get undernieth the GOP tent for safety....

Take one of his first national TV interviews, the one with Rachael Maddow..... There he ventured out on Principal and tried to explain to the smart intelligent Rachael Maddow about how a part of the Civil Rights act violates private property and that causes some problems down the road. Yet she was not having any of it, would not entertain it, and instead jumped right in to playing the Gotcha-let-me-spin-you-as-evil-racist-republican. The story blew up and Rand Paul ZAGGED right over to Sean Hannity for GOP big tent cover and safety. Like his father Ron, the LEFT had what they wanted to give him; "a race problem",.

Rand Paul ZIGS over for Principle in the Senate on Iran sanctions, but soon sees that battle as lost, so he ZAGS back into the GOP big tent and votes with the crowd.

Rand Paul ZIGS against Foriegn Aid, but runs into big pro-israel resistance, so rather than zagging back into GOP line, he simply scratches in an exception to CUT ALL FOREIGN AID TO THE MIDDLE EAST: Except to our 'friend Israel'. With that position, he gets to ZIG outside the GOP tent on Principle, yet stay inside the GOP tent for safety. Expect Rand Paul to keep that voice on that issue.

Rand Paul ZIGs for his dad in the GOP election, but wasted no time ZAGGING back into the GOP big tent the minute that the votes are clearly not going in Dr Ron Pauls favor. For me and many of us, the fact that he jumped to support Romeny so fast was shocking, but what many of us ( and myself included ) did not notice was how fast he jumped off the Romney train once Romney made it clear on a neocon Foreign Policy. It was now 'safe' to ZIG back to that issue, once he had zagged back underneath the GOP tent by endorsing Romney weeks earlier. Most of all, we should all take note that he did not ZIG away from the foreign Policy issue by endorsing Romney, but rather, made it clear he was ZAGGING away from Romney because of his neocon stance. Yes, the player plays the game. And he appears to be playing as principally as possible and still be a Senator that "has the support of the people".

Rand Paul on Chuck Hagel. Here the principle is a wiser foreign policy, or rather, a foriegn policy that is NeoCon free. So Rand Zigs and Zags differently here. He plays the game. He joins the GOP on its resistance to Hagel, but when its clear they have "lost the votes" as he explained to Glenn Beck, he Zigs and votes for Hagel (which secretly he may have wanted all along).

So here we have our first "Republican-libertarian leaning" Senator, and he is different than our first Libertarian-republican leaning Congressman from Texas.

It seems in Rand Paul, we will have to learn to hate the Game, but not the player. We will have to learn and expect him to ZIG OUT and ZAG Back into the GOP big tent.

Watch him, when the votes are not there to stop Brennan as CIA director, go ahead and vote for Brennan, thus ZAGGING back into the fold as another Kentucky "Great Compromiser".

Like a great player who "plays the game well", he collects points for being "on principle" and he then collects points for being "a team player". A very different style than his dad. I can imagine the young twenty something Rand Paul at the dinner table and at various Ron Paul congressional events as always saying to his self and to his dad, "But I would play this differently". Well now he is playing differently. Perhaps it is us who need to be schooled and wise up to his methods of zigging and zagging. That is, blame the game, not the player.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

I don't see the zig zagging

Rand is in the GOP and has to work with the party.. lst night you saw several who don't agree with Rand, make a stand.. Durbin for one, Ron Johnson, Pat Toomey.. thiose who were Zigged because they didn't expect someone like Rand to be so brilliant.. Rand didn't go along to get along.. he struck gold in the form of a message that the executive branch is not responding to fair questions concerning the power they believe they have.

Granger -- yes he did strike gold as you say...

the Zigging and Zagging is about Rand's strategy/style of advancing liberty. It is not as straight forward as is Dr. Ron Paul's, a strategy that "runs a straight line" and does not care if he is the lone vote on any issue. That STRAIGHT LINE-LONE VOTE strategy of our loved Ron Paul, is clearly not his son's strategy. As I said, Rand's strategy is to make the argument for liberty (Zig) and if the votes are not there, (Zag) back under the GOP tent to claim that he is a "team player". Fair enough. Notice that he did just that with the Brennan vote. He zigged for liberty during his filibuster, but Zagged back to vote for the rest who all know very clearly that Brennan is no friend of Liberty. A doctor Ron Paul, would vote NO to Brennan and not care a hoot that he was the lone NO vote. While we admire Dr Ron Paul for that kind of straight-down-the-line-liberty-voting-record, don't expect to make much sense out of Rand's voting record.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

I think his idea with the Bennen vote

he doesn't want people to vote against who he appoints when he's president.

No but its called giving

No but its called giving credit where credit is due. Rand just woke a lot of people up and scored a win for the liberty movement.

scawarren's picture

I don't normally agree with

I don't normally agree with Cenk but he earns an "A+" for this one!

It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. – Mark Twain

"I don't normally agree with

"I don't normally agree with Cenk but " Why do you have to say that?

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

Wow Brian

Having a case of the Monday's on Thursday? But Friday is tomorrow, Sir!

TYT's believe in global warming and that's why a lot of us here don't like him. Oh yeah, he believes Ron Paul actually had a hand in those "racist newsletters" too.

In any case: balls.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

My point was about something

My point was about something completely different... but I don't have the energy to go into it..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...

He says that to establish for

He says that to establish for people reading his post that he doesn't identify with the progressive movement, but as he says agrees with Cenk on this issue - it's hardly surprising.

I'm in the same boat. There have been a couple times I've agreed with him, mostly at times he was agreeing with various libritarians on specific issues; but far more often I'm thinking he's 100% wrong. He trusts gov't more than individuals, he thinks big gov't will make people kinder, smarter, more productive, and make America a better place...I think the opposite. I trust individuals most when they don't hold gov't backed threats of jailing/violence behind their words. I think big gov't makes people greedier, lazier, dumber, and lowers our nation's general standard of living. Thus, "I don't normally agree with Cenk, but"...on this issue he's right.

The turk is gonna alienate the far left

who reject the constitution. Wonder what mouthy Maddow will have to say.

Be brave, be brave, the Myan pilot needs no aeroplane.

Maddow covered it for 20

Maddow covered it for 20 seconds last night. She basically said, "incoherent blabbering, hitler reference, hitler reference, hahahaha, the end."

I don't understand people like her or

Jon Stewart. They have these moments where it seems like they're being genuine when talking about any Paul, and then BOOM, they hit a switch and go on the attack.

Honestly: I think Maddow and Stewart secretly cheer for the Paul family but can't publically because the Paul's are Republican.

I could be wrong.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

AWESOME!!!!!

Dude I'm liking Rand More and More EACH DAY!!!

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

We Should START NOW!!!

Let's start funding a Rand Paul 2016 Run right now: taking Gold, Silver, and Bit Coins as the main donations (IN That order).

I propose One Condition: THAT WE WILL ONLY GIVE THE MONEY TO HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ONLY IF WE OVERALL APPROVE OF THE CAMPAIGN MANAGEMENT AND STAFF (We don't want another Jesse Benton situation). OTHER WISE WE CAN START A DAILY PAUL SUPER PAC OR PAC.

WHAT Y'ALL SAY???

"We’ve moved beyond the Mises textbook. We’re running in the open market." - Erik Voorhees

Let's do it!

I'm in, Rafael. Talk to Nystrom and see if he has already had some ideas, first. He usually does.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

I'm in.

Let's get this campaign started now. For fund raising, I suggest we look into buying the Internet Domains that Democrats might want for the next election cycle and sell them back at a huge profit. We should also start an anti-neocon campaign and finds liberty candidates willing to run against McCain, Graham, etc.

Perfect.

Too bad there's nothing we can say to prevent the drones from coming and killing us. They have already won, hell has been institutionalized at every level, from the usurpation of Congress by corporate puppets, to the media coup by propagandists, to the secret prisons and "legitimate" torture, to the purchasing of enough bullets, tanks, and weaponry to wage and win a "civil war" against the American people a hundred times over... now it's just a matter of pushing the people into the pit.

I strongly feel that in spite of our best efforts and clearest arguments, we are doomed.

"I strongly feel that in spite of our best efforts and clearest

arguments, we are doomed."

As someone implied a while back, I won't name their name..

The soapbox doesn't work anymore
The voting box doesn't work anymore
but the ammobox is still available.. I paraphrased. :)

It's not over till the lead runs out of our veins.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Die however you want

you're still dead.

Live less than you want and you're dead too.

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things;
the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free
unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ~John Stuart Mill

I'm in no rush to die but life without Liberty is no life at all.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Hmmm

I'm in no rush to die but life without Liberty is no life at all.

Whether it is or isn't, most of our Constitutional liberties are gone, and those who chose to take up arms and fight to get them back may soon be gone as well.

It could be argued that the liberty of the mind in adverse conditions is a jewel that few even bother to seek. But I believe in that kind of liberty that, while contingent on the biological health of the body to a certain extent, goes much farther than political liberty.

As long as I still have the freedom of my mind, I do have a life.

You have the illusion of Liberty if you can't excersise it.

I can travel to beautiful places in my dreams but I still can't manage to bring home a shot glass and a real lei from Hawaii that way.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

Being satisfied with illusions

frees me from having to do things on the physical level. Plus it is less expensive.

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

-Thoreau

That explains a lot.

.

Patriot Cell #345,168
I don't respond to emails or pm's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qo8CmO...
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution, inevitable.

I freaking HATE when anyone

I freaking HATE when anyone talks about someone and they have to qualify anything good about them with the tried statement that "I don't agree with them on a lot of issues or everything" It just is so dismissive. You don't need to say that. Just say you agree with them or praise what you agree with. We know because you say something good about someone doesn't mean you love everything about them..

If you disagree with me on anything you are not a real libertarian...